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Refueling On Engine Power.

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:57 am
by WomBat151
On Stephen Kings "The Langoleers" there are no fuel trucks with working engines to punp fuel in the wing. The pilot connects the hose to the wing, and then uses power from the 767's jet engines to suck fuel in the wing.
This is nonsense right?

RE: Refueling On Engine Power.

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:03 am
by LimaFoxTango
Sounds rather ridiculous to me. But then again...

RE: Refueling On Engine Power.

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:46 am
by greasespot
Yes, it is nonsense. I will even go on a limb and dared to be proven wrong and say it is nonsense for all aircraft.  Smile

Greasespot

RE: Refueling On Engine Power.

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:41 am
by 411A
If one had the correct plumbing installed beforehand, yes it would be possible with Lockheed TriStar aircraft using the inline (in tank) fuel ejector pumps, provided one positively knew the fuel system intimately.

However, a bit far-fetched...for a movie.

PS: For those that don't know what fuel ejector pumps are, these are, in effect, suction pumps with no moving parts, installed in fuel lines within fuel tanks (in Lockheed TriStar equipment) to keep the fuel circulating in the tank for, amoung other things, help to eliminate fuel cold soak in very cold ambient conditions aloft, at higher altitudes. These pumps provide their function so long as normal 115v/400 cycle electric fuel boost pumps are operating...and indeed can accomplish fuel transfer from one tank to another, while on the ground...only.

RE: Refueling On Engine Power.

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:49 am
by L-188
Nope not possible however that isn't to say that they wouldn't have been able to fuel the airplane in the film.

If memory serves they fueled off a hydrant truck, not a tanker. It has been a while since I have seen that mini-series. Even if it was off a tanker can a pump located in the wing of an airplane lift a column of water that high? Water wells only are about 32 feet if memory serves. And I am aware of no pumps in any aircraft for "sucking" fuel in. But that doesn't matter because obviously an aircraft tanker is equiped for offloading fuel. All the aircraft fuel system has to do is transfer fuel between the tanks, at either the fueling panel or depending on the aircraft, the F/E panel.

The line to the hydrant from the fuel farm has to typically be pressurized by a pump at the fuel farm that has to be on. The hydrant truck is basicly just a filter and valve truck. It doesn't generate the pressure to pump the fuel, that comes from the pump at the fuel farm and is why all those fuel connectors are pressure fittings. When I used to work out in the bush we only turned our pump on when and aircraft was on the ground, so it wasn't run that often, However at a major airport I don't think there is any time when fuel isn't being moved out of the fuel farm to some gate.

So if I remember the plot right, if everybody at that airport vanished, there wouldn't have been anybody there to shut down the fuel pump so the hydrant system would have still be pressurized. so it would have been a simple matter of hooking up the truck and fueling normally.



[Edited 2004-08-24 04:57:16]

RE: Refueling On Engine Power.

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:06 pm
by Bobs89irocz
In that movie they used an L1011, not a 767....Just some FYI.

RE: Refueling On Engine Power.

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:13 pm
by L-188
Wait a second.......Nothing mechanical or electrical worked on the ground right?

If so, they where screwed......Like I said it has been a while since I have seen the film.

Only exception I can think of, is if the fuel tank....tanker or tank farm is higher then the wing tanks of the plane, they you can get head pressure from gravity working on the stored fuel....provided all of the valves between the farm and the plane can be opened manually. Or else you park the tanker on the top floor of the airport parking garage and run line all the way out to the airplane.

RE: Refueling On Engine Power.

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:11 am
by WomBat151
yes but then they have to push the tank up that building, because engines and electrics outside the airplane were not working!  Smile It's just a trick from the director to keep the story running.

RE: Refueling On Engine Power.

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:07 am
by lowrider
The only aircraft I know of that comes close to the is the AN-2. Most of them have an opening you can pour the fuel into, then use ship's power to pump it up into the wings. Otherwise, its no more realistic than the plane in "Air Force One"

RE: Refueling On Engine Power.

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:23 am
by air2gxs
Most, if not all airliners, have overwing fueling capability. Each wing tank has a fuel cap. You can only fuel to the level of the cap & then transfer fuel to the appropiate tanks. Of course, you still need a way to get the fuel to the overwing port.

RE: Refueling On Engine Power.

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:21 am
by WrenchBender
Hey Greasespot, Canadian Military Twin Otters have 2 onbaord refuelling methods.
1. 28 VDC utility receptacle wich hooks up to a pump they carry onboard for high arctic ops (working from fuel caches) Done engine running on stbd side.

2. Pneumatic manifold in the rear baggage compartent to operate an air driven refeulling pump inused in similar circumstances as method 1. Uses customer bleed air regulated to 25 psi.

I have used the first method myself

WrenchBender

RE: Refueling On Engine Power.

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:33 am
by MD11Engineer
I watched this movie years ago.
Another thing which intrigued me was how they could taxi away with the stairs still standing at L1 door. AFAIK the L1011 doesn´t have a back door through the NLG wheel well like the DC-10 or MD-11 and the avionics compartment door is quite high above ground. How did the guy who drove the stairs away get back on board?

Jan