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Fueling With MX (DL @ CVG)

Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:47 pm

Hello everyone -

This is my first post here, but I've read posts in Tech/Ops going back about a year and a half now... Wow! There is a lot of info out here! If there's anywhere where I can get this questions answered it would be here:

On my last trip I decided to go out of my way to get a couple segments in on DL (SAN-ATL-DTW-PLN(NW)-DTW(NW)-CVG-SAN) so I could see ATL and CVG and also to get a ride in on a 763 and CRJ.

Anyways...after Boarding my last segment (DL1661) we were told that due to some MX work "up here" we'd be at the gate for another 20 mins or so and then because of weather our flight time would be extended slightly. about :45 later we got word that the MX work was finished but because of the weather reroute they would have to add another 6K pounds of fuel and it would take "about 20 minutes as soon as the fuel truck gets here". About an hour and a half after sched departure we pushed back.

My questions stemming from this are:
1) Why was the flight boarded on time if they knew MX would delay things at least 20 minutes? I know the FAs weren't any happier than the pax...

2) Would it have been possible for the fuel to be added while MX was in progress? I know fuel is one of those sensitive things, but if the work is going on "up here", which implies to me flight deck is there any hazard? I'm presuming the crew would have known that additional fuel was required fairly early on.

3) Is it (still) true that there have to be at least two pax exits open while fueling? I know at one point a FA made the announcement was made that they were closing the door but electronic devices could still be used until we were ready to push... I don't think that door was ever reopened [could be wrong, though]

Thanks for any and all responses...and thanks to everyone whose responded to the other posts... I really have learned a lot.

[Who will probably never fly DL again... Misrouted luggage, rude gate agents, misinformation and rundown facilities (@DTW) are not the best first impression... The final straw was when I had a DL *supervisor* at CVG tell me that the only way to upgrade my seat was if I was a "SkyMiles Maroon Medallion" member.]
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RE: Fueling With MAX (DEL @ CVG)

Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:04 pm


Welcome to the Techops forum. I don't know the specifics of the MX being performed on your flight, but let me try to explain a little about line MX.

MX is not a perfect science. In troubleshooting the problem you follow a process that may involve a few or hundreds of steps. Since you may find the problem at any of those steps it is very difficult to say how long it will take to fix or defer it. Airport customer service (ACS) always wants updates on how long it will take. MX keeps ACS updated when they have something to update but often times ACS will make overly optimistic estimations of the length of the delay when they can't nail us down on a departure time to keep pax happy. Doesn't seem to me to be the best way to do it, but it happens. MX was probably working the problem before you boarded but wasn't able to determine the extent of the problem right away. It could also have been a last minute call to MX minutes before pushback which happens quite often. In any event they aren't going to call the fuelers until the problem is rectified as they don't know how much fuel they'll have to add because they don't know how long the delay is going to be. Weather conditions could change during that time making a reroute unnecessary or even longer. Sorry if this post isn't very coherent but I don't have much time right now.

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RE: Fueling With MX (DL @ CVG)

Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:05 pm

Generally speaking.

Mx work especially Unscheduled Mx cannot be predicted.During Troubleshooting a snag,the rectification can take anything between a few minutes to an hour.Regarding Refuelling,it would be preffered to avoid refuelling depending on the Type of Mx work being carried out.Also extra fuel would increase Aircraft weight.[Difficult to comment as I'm not aware of the Mx work in your case].Also as mentioned Weather can change enroute sudenly causing a shift in departure Fuel requirements.

Yes Pax on board during refuelling is permitted provided there are escape provisions in place in case of emergency to evacuate the Pax.

I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
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RE: Fueling With MX (DL @ CVG)

Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:24 pm

When the flight crew says "up here" they typically mean on the flight deck, but that does not mean all the work is being down "up here". We routinely, if manpower is available" put an AMT on the flight deck to "gaurd" the controls or operate a system as required.

Another possibility is they could have been working on the fuel system or the fuel quntity indicating system. Both of which would have prevented fueling.

Another possibility is that the system the AMTs were working on was a restrictive item that would have required more fuel if deferred, so the exact fuel load was not known at the time. The ideal situation would have been to have a fuel truck waiting at the aircraft when the fuel load was determined, but fuel trucks are finite assets that also have a schedule to keep.

As you can see, many variables.

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