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Aviation
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Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:42 am

Hi,

Just wondering after seeing the sunglasses Q do any of you own breitling watches if so are they a very nice trusted watch?

Thanks,
Aaron J Nicoli
Signed, Aaron Nicoli - Trans World Airlines Collector
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:54 am

IMHO, for watches in aviation, there is only really one brand: Breitling. http://www.breitling.com

For aviator precision, I would recommend the "Aerospace" or the "Emergency". These are quartz watches.

If you are an watch aficionado and want an automatic, go for the "Cosmonaute", the "Crosswind" or the "Chronomat".

There are also special editions based on various aerobatics troupes.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
2H4
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:01 am

Student loans prevent me from owning things like Breitlings, so I went with the Nike Lance 4. It has a relatively accurate altimeter with a graph that logs the past few hours of altitude change.













Recently I was cycling on a road with a series of very small hills/rises...each was maybe about 20' high. When I got to the end of the road, I looked at my watch, and sure enough, there was a series of points in the graph representing the hills.

It also has a titanium case and one-piece band. So far, it's been the most bombproof watch I've owned. I recommend it highly.


2H4
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Starlionblue
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:06 am

As for money and Breitlings, I have a story about that.

We had hired a carpenter and he came up to our apartment to check the work that needed to be done. When he came in he said, "Hey the door code downstairs was '1884', just like Breitling". In fact, 1884 is the year of foundation for Breitling.

He then proceeded to show us his Breitling "Emergency". Guess I should have become a carpenter...

The Emergency is particularly expensive since it contains an emergency locator beacon.

[Edited 2005-01-02 17:07:50]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Aviation
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:16 am

do the breitlings have altimiters or just timers was really confused at the site?

Thanks,
Aaron J Nicoli
Signed, Aaron Nicoli - Trans World Airlines Collector
 
AAR90
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:47 am

To answer the original question: NO, way too expensive. I see far too many pilots wearing their profession on their wrist only to get abused and eventually lost somewhere never to be found (or returned) again. Why waste the $$$? Bottom line is you need a watch that is reliable and fairly accurate (a sweep-second hand is nice, but not necessary). I currently use a Skagen (very thin, very light) I purchased at 50% off --I'd never pay $100 for a watch. It has been lost twice and returned both times (guess it wasn't good enough).  Laugh out loud OTOH, I've seen a few dozen co-pilots lose their fancy aviator watches while on a trip and none has ever been returned. Gee, I wonder why?
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
lowrider
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:21 am

Forget Breitling, Rolex, and the like. You need simple, light, and easily readable at a glance. MY $35 Timex has served me well for over 4 years now.
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B747FE
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:30 am

I agree with AAR90.
Personally I like Breitling Navitimer collection, but is way too expensive to be regarded as a wrist chronograph for serious everyday wear.
I use a Omega Speedmaster, manual winding, very simple and dependable.
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DeltaGuy
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:40 am

MY cousin just purchased this $400 Sieko watch, has an E-6B built into it...sure it looks cool, but honestly, are you going to stick your wrist up mid-flight and twist those little dials around and get your gouge? Hell, the letters were almost too small to read when sitting in a stationary seat! Definately a waste of money if you ask me.

Your watch doesn't have to be flying related, just reliable...I have a nice Fossil silver watch with a red Chevy logo and the Camaro SS symbol on it, has the rotating dial too...looks good, hands are red on black so you can see it real well, works just fine for me...cost? $52! Big grin

DeltaGuy
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SlamClick
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:59 am

If you want a good time keeper buy a six dollar rubber watch.

If you want a status symbol go to Canal Street in New York and buy a fake Rolex or a fake Patek Philippe. They look just like the real thing and if you spend the money on the real thing most people in the industry will just assume that it is a fake anyway.

As for the multi-dial so-called "pilot watches" they are a matter of taste. Other than is-it-time-to-go-to-work-yet function, watches have NO ROLE WHATEVER in the working life of a pilot.

In order to be flown in instrument conditions, an airplane must have a clock with a sweep second hand. You are not even permitted to use your own watch to time approaches. (Come to think of it, there aren't many timed approaches left anyway.) Temperature, a compass, tide tables for the state of Kansas, all a bunch of crap.

As for E-6B type computers on watches. After you are about 35 years old you won't be able to read those tiny numbers in broad daylight. But that is okay because by that age you should be flying a plane that has an FMC of some kind and you should never again have to do "ground speed over sixty equals distance over time" on any kind of computer.

My advice is, buy what looks good on your wrist and fits your budget, because I'll say it again, a watch has no real job in the life of a pilot. They are for show and because the company expects us to make the hotel bus with the rest of the crew.

Besides having had a couple of watches stolen from my hotel room over my working life, I finally decided that a proper pair of layover shoes is much more important. They have to take up very little room in your suitcase. Sneakers will get you 86'd from the better restaurants. Hard soles will limit your walking around in interesting places. So many choices. Just now I favor Rockports.
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AAR90
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:12 am

...say it again, a watch has no real job in the life of a pilot.

I have a watch because AA requires me to have a watch. Note: I seldom actually wear my watch.

Just now I favor Rockports.

Same here... for about 10 years.  Laugh out loud
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Starlionblue
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:39 am

If you want a good time keeper buy a six dollar rubber watch.

If you want a status symbol go to Canal Street in New York and buy a fake Rolex or a fake Patek Philippe. They look just like the real thing and if you spend the money on the real thing most people in the industry will just assume that it is a fake anyway.

As for the multi-dial so-called "pilot watches" they are a matter of taste. Other than is-it-time-to-go-to-work-yet function, watches have NO ROLE WHATEVER in the working life of a pilot.


Well, I am a huge Breitling fan, but I must agree. Ironically, a "six dollar rubber watch" is actually more precise than my Breitling Crosswind. But I wear it because I like the watch. Breitling also has an "aviation branding" that I find nice.

Buy a watch that you like.


do the breitlings have altimiters or just timers was really confused at the site?

I don't think there is a Breitling with an altimeter.

For the people who say don't wear it "for everyday use". I wear my Breitling every day. It's really quite robust. And for that price I don't want to have it lying around at home!
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
alphafloor
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:05 am

Well... Breitling is ok but I got a little story here that might interest some of you.
One of my collegue wanted to fix the breitling of his father (a 747 pilot btw), the malfunction came from the 'winder' (not sur if it's called like that in english)... anyway... it was broken and he wanted that watch to be repaired and he asked my father who is a watchmaker at Rolex to fix it and so he did it. As I have great interest in watches I asked my father after he fixed the malfunction what he thought of the Breitling he worked on. He looked at me and he said : Nah... that watch is not reliable, the way it is done is not good to me. Three month later I bought a Rolex Submariner  Big grin and honestly if I would recommend a watch for a pilot I would recommend the Rolex GMT-Master II. I presume that a pilot can afford it. For me that is simply the best watch and if it's too expensive for you... well nothing beats the Swatch in terms of quality/price balance !

Regards,
-Al-
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Starlionblue
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:45 am

Perhaps your father is a bit biased  Big grin

If I wanted a precise watch I would buy a Swatch as you say... Here is my list of watches for various images:

Precision: Any quartz watch. Cheap ones too
Aviation image: Breitling
Diving image: Rolex
Pimp/Drug lord image: Gold Rolex
Sailing image: Sjöö Sandström
Astronomy: Ulysse Nardin (Astrolabium or Planetarium)
Polo image: Jaeger LeCoutre Tankers watch
Trendy watch image: Franck Mueller
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Aviation
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:35 pm

hey AAR90 I have never lost a watch in my life and as for the price I would probably prefer to get a nice watch and have it for 30 years than by a cheapy and replace it every 12 months.... Just my thoughts

Thanks for the help all!
Aaron J Nicoli
Signed, Aaron Nicoli - Trans World Airlines Collector
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:34 pm

I have had a Rolex, a Breitling and a few other watches. To be honest, the best watch I have had and one I consistently use for work is a Casio World Time. I think I might have paid around US$15 in HKG a few years ago. Works great, lasts a long time.

In fact, I just replaced the battery in HKG on my last layover. Cost me all of US$2!

My advice, is to buy what you think is good for you. As I have tried to tell my kids, having nice stuff is great, but spend what you're willing to lose or have stolen!

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ShyFlyer
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:09 pm

I use a dual time zone TIMEX. One zone set to UTC, the other to local time.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
sllevin
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:11 pm

I prefer my Omega Speedmaster, the "Moonwatch." nice big dial, easy to reada, and a chronograph to boot.

Steve
 
EMBQA
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:46 pm

Well....about an hour ago I got a call from a buddy that is a Corporate pilot who was bored and was waiting for his passengers to arrive at RDU. We talked about family, the Holidays, his new baby, and watches. I bought myself a new Seiko for Christmas and I told him while I was looking, I saw a nice Aviator Flight Calculator Seiko but it had more functions then I needed. I asked him what he had..?? "A $19 cheap Timex" he answered. "It does all I need"

My point, sure Breitlings are nice, but at $1,000 and up, with most at $5,000 and up... I'll take my Seiko and a cheap Timex any day.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
CaptainTim
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:00 pm

i use a breitling Aerospace myself.. no it does not have a altimeter ~ it only contains basic funtions e.g. chronograph, timer, alarm etc.

However, it looks great with 2 digital screens on the face of the watch ~ looks very professional and sophisticated. Also, all aerospaces are made of titanium maintaining a very strong watch but also lightweight

A B-1 is also good by Breitling. It has the same features as a Aerospace (2 digtal screens) and all the same functions. but it is thicker and on back of the watch, the back area is cut to look like a jet engine (propellers)..

Without a doubt, breitling is the watch for pilots..

tim
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bravo45
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:33 pm

I agree: As a pilot you don't HAVE to have a Breitling nor does it make you ANY better.
Its about the image, part of my judgement of people is by looking at their wrists, so I am big about it. I don't have a Breitling yet though.  Sad
I have a Citizen Skyhawk (titanium). I just got fixed on buying it when I first saw it. It was later that I found out about the E6B being on it. I took it as my attraction to things I like related to aviation. However not EVERYTHING has to be aviation related for me (mugs in your house, pics of planes on every shirt etc), however I look at a watch different. I guess everyone is different and like I said it doesn't make any difference, its just personal. I intend to get a Navitimer sometime, and possibly a Bently.  Big grin
While being on the topic of watches, I have always been like this, I had that coool calculator watch in 5-6th grade(wern't too common in early 90s), a watch to store FIFTY (wow!) phone numbers when I was a 9-10th grade, bought myself the most expensive casio around a few years later (a twincept), and now this one. I do feel in this gradual improvement Breitling is the next step and that is as good as it can get for me.
 
alphafloor
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:49 am

Starlionblue, for you info, my father worked for years in the watch industry here in Switzerland and worked for companies such as Omega, Patek Phillip, Vacheron&Constantin and now for Rolex since 22 years and he is one of the most respected watchmaker in Rolex, I'm not telling this because he is my father  Big grin... but believe me after spending years in this business he knows what he talks about and his opinion is not biased... Rolex is more than just a watch!  Big grin I suggest you a try.

Talking about fake Rolex... well, they are bought by persons who do not know about watches at all. During my last holydays I had the opportunity to see a Cosmograph Daytona for lady, this is just ridiculous! Anyway I had a good laugh when I tryied it, the chronograph did not work and for sure this thing was not waterproof. I'm not even talking about the mechanism of this poor watch. Again... buy a Swatch!

Sllevin, I agree with you the Omega Speedmaster is a masterpiece and carries history, that's exactly what I'm looking for when I choose a watch. I had one for a long time and lost it  Sad but for sur I'm gonna buy the new one !!

Regards,
-Al-
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Starlionblue
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:07 am

Alphafloor. No offence to your father. Just having a bit of fun.

I have always respected Rolex as a watchmaker, but have never found one that would go well on my wrist if you know what I mean. Watches are a very personal thing.

About fake watches, I agree with you completely. If I wanted a cheap watch I would buy a cheap watch. I didn't spend a lot of money on a Breitling to show it off. I simply like the watch and the tradition that comes with it. It's more about being interested in the watch itself than about keeping accurate time or showing off.

BTW my father has an antique Vacheron-Constantin. Made in 1942! He bought it in 1947. It is a real beauty. He doesn't have it for the value or for the accuracy of timekeeping, but a real watch enthusiast understands.

It's a bit like the difference between normal passengers and A.nutters. A plane is still a plane, but it's so much more for us.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
buckfifty
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:17 am

I second the Casio theme. I have a Casio world time which I wear more often than not. I also have a TAG F1 Kirium that I wear sometimes, but nothing beats the Casio with the readability. Setting the world time is a breeze, just a few button pushes I'll get the time at whatever locale I arrive at, with the GMT time underneath for reference. And it's a Tough Solar, so I never have to change the battery.

I do want a B1, however. It just looks great. Useful? Probably not as much as my Casio. But I'll be the first to admit that I don't mind being vain sometimes...
 
FlyMKG
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:17 am

I have a Citizen Skyhawk watch and it is excellent. It looks really nice. The only drawback is that is a little heavy. Overall though, I'd recommend it to anybody.

FlyMKG

I'd also like to welcome myself to the site after being a long time lurker. I look forward to adding my 2 cents.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:58 am

Welcome to the site FlyMKG!  Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
alphafloor
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:02 am

No problem Starlionblue ! Nice to read that you are also a watch aficionado. To be honest with you, I know some people working in this business here and when I have discussions with them we don't talk only about the quality of a watch but also about the company in itself and how the company run their business and treats their employee and that makes me think a little different sometimes... if you know what I mean.

BTW the Pimp/Drug lord image: Gold Rolex was a good one !!  Smile

-Al-
Whatever
 
RC4050
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:25 am

I have a Citizen Skyhawk (Blue Angels Theme) and everyone who says all you need is something to tell time is right. I barely use the E6B on it and on occasionally reference the Time zones for GMT. But I have to admit if I had the money the breigtlings look nice  Smile

PS (FlyMKG is right this thing is heavy)
 
Ralgha
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:40 am

watches have NO ROLE WHATEVER in the working life of a pilot.

Without my watch, I would be hard pressed to maximize the use of each time block scheduled with me.

In order to be flown in instrument conditions, an airplane must have a clock with a sweep second hand.

It can be a digital presentation, which I happen to prefer.

But that is okay because by that age you should be flying a plane that has an FMC of some kind and you should never again have to do "ground speed over sixty equals distance over time" on any kind of computer.

So someone who is a professional pilot, but has no desire to fly an airplane with an FMC by the age of 35 is a failure?

I'll say it again, a watch has no real job in the life of a pilot.

I'll say it again, I use my watch constantly when flying.

They are for show and because the company expects us to make the hotel bus with the rest of the crew.

So now all professional pilots fly in a crew environment?

No offense meant, I just found a lot of inaccurate statements here. Big thumbs up
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Rick767
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:07 am

I am totally with AAR90 on this one, my cheap Casio has served me well all over the world since about 1996!

We operate tight turnarounds of 20-25 minutes at most of our bases, and the watch is obviously invaluable to make sure we are keeping to time, but there'e no chance I'm splashing out on an expensive timekeeping device which serves exactly the same purpose as my trusty Casio!
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
EMBQA
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:47 am

Overstock.com has that Seiko Aviator Caculator watch back on sale again. Take a look.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
TWAMD-80
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:01 am

Brietling is a great and well trusted watch maker. I am still about 4 grand below the price of acquiring the model that I am interested in. A few months ago before Christmas, I went into a jewelry store that had the Emergency model. When I inquired how much they were running for, I quickly realized that I would have to wait for quite some time. But right now I have a Fossil watch which works very well. It it can take a lickin and keep on tickin.

TW
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infiniti757
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:34 am

I have a Tissot Navigator. When I travel to multiple international destinations, I find that it's nice to have the watch do all the work when trying to figure out what time it is in what ever time zone I'm in. After a long flight I just want to know how much time before the next flight. Breitlings are nice, but I've found they don't stand up as well as they should and I never once used the E6B functions.
Give me the luxuries in life and I will gladly do without the necessities. (Frank Lloyd Wright)
 
red777
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:17 am

A good watch is one that tells the time Smile

I use a Citizen NavHawk Watch and it is fantastic. It has 30 different countries listed and in time with on another. Includes UTC time as well. it also has a Wizz Wheel fitted (Flight Computer for Nav and flight calculations). Great watch!

Part of the compulsory minimal operating instrument panel is a clock and in operating accuracy of +/- 15sec. In AUS and im not sure about other countries but I have herd that it's compulsory for the PIC to have a watch on him at all times of flight operation. For SAR and Safety reasons.

[Edited 2005-01-31 02:21:01]

[Edited 2005-01-31 02:21:58]
 
andrej
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:04 pm

Hello all,

I am not a real pilot, but virtual one.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy so I guess I am counted in this topic, right?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy The topic is interesting, and I hope you do not mind.

OK, I recieved my Seiko Chronograph about 5 years ago. I was really happy with it, it had a huge sentimental value to me. It was a gift from my parents to my birthday. For about 3 years, the watch served very well. But than, all went wrong. The watches broke every month, some dials stoped working, etc.
I was quite sad with it. The warranty, which last for 3 years was over and I decided to put them away for now. Maybe I will fix them, but it all depends on the price.

Since I am an EMT I need watch for various puroposes and I look anywhere from Breitling, Rolex and Omega to Citizen and Casio. Than I found G-Shock MT-G. I got it for less than 100 USD from shopping.com (Casio MSRP is 150 USD!!) This watch has everything I will ever need. No battery required, I recieve up-date time every morning from Army base in Colorado (That base has Atomic clock), I have WorldTime zones, stopwatch, chronometer, hard to break etc. For now, I am very happy with it.

One day, when I graduate from college I will go for Breitlings or Omega. But that is about 2 years in future and I will be more than happy use Casio for now.

Cheers,
Andrej
 
AFHokie
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RE: Pilots What's A Good Watch?

Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:18 pm

I agree with buying whatever works for you. Just because the watch is inexpensive does not mean it won't keep good time. My father bought me a Timex when I was in high school. It lasted me until I graduated from college. It's a pretty even mix as to what the pilots here at Shaw wear, (the only real need for a watch is so you don't miss a brief) some have the nice fancy ones, others, have ones they bought at Walmart. I have two watches, a Timex I wear day to day, and a nice Citizen Echo-Drive I bought for when I have to wear something other than BDU's or a tshirt and jeans. (guess I'm finally growing up lol) Both keep time adequate to my needs, the only difference I've noticed is that the face of the Citizen is much more scratch resistant, but then for what I paid, it better be, plus I wear it a whole lot less. To be honest, that's the only downside to the Timex, the face is pretty beat up, (it didn't like the bug repellent that got on it last summer)
 
SlamClick
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:25 am

Ralgha your use of the  Big thumbs up aside, you seem to have some issues here.

Here we have a thread started by a young person who appears to be interested in advancing in aviation. I applaud that, but I think he would be better served taking more college courses or adding ratings rather than squandering five thousand dollars on a pretentious watch. Do you disagree?

As to your points:

"Without my watch, I would be hard pressed to maximize the use of each time block scheduled with me."

Well sir, that is you. I still see it as an argument for a reliable watch, not a showy one.

"It can be a digital presentation, which I happen to prefer."

We know that. I just didn't want to waste bandwidth with it.

"So someone who is a professional pilot, but has no desire to fly an airplane with an FMC by the age of 35 is a failure?"

Your words, partner, not mine. But since this site is called airliners dot net, not small-town flight instructors dot net, I believe that statement to apply to more readers here than not. More to the point, I believe that if you have need of a flight computer (I like the six-inch Jeppesen CR-3) those tiny numbers on a watch-mounted computer are just plain silly. Again, after about 35 you'd need a jeweler's loupe to read them.

"I'll say it again, I use my watch constantly when flying."

Still not an argument for spending five grand on a fifty dollar item.

"So now all professional pilots fly in a crew environment?"

See the airliners.net comment above. Just my way of saying that the boss expects us to be at work on time. I think most of us got it.

P.S. I've done quite a bit of small-town flying. Perhaps the most satisfying flying job I've ever had was a C-206 on a construction job that had me landing on gravel roads and dry lakebeds. Really fun. I've never been a flight instructor except military and under FAR 61.167 (b) but enjoyed that thoroughly. If I wanted to fly anymore it would be in a small-town kind of operation but that is not what most readers here are interested in. I bring experience broad and deep to my posts here, but again, it is airliners that are the focus on this site.






[Edited 2005-01-31 17:31:21]
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Andreas
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RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:45 am

Alphafloor: I couldn't have said it better myself Big grin Big grin Big grin

Andreas, proud owner of a Rolex GMT Master II, solid steel, red-blue bezel.

My best regards to your father, and these watches are simply the best, and they keep their value after years and years (that's the reason why so many shady characters own one..it's a currency on their wrist, should they ever be forced to travel on very short notice Big grin).
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
CaptainTim
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:43 am

RE: Pilots Whats A Good Watch?

Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:03 pm

i was over at Cathay city over the weekend.. and met many pilots on 777,747s a340s.. they ALL wore Brieling Aerospace.. it seemed as they were sponsored by them or somethign..

so i presum that the Aerospace is a well desigend watch for piltos
tim
Gulfstream Planeview Cockpit: "why have hundreds of buttons when a CCD does the same thing and more?"

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