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QantasA332
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Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:44 pm

Just a quick question --

Are stall fences MEL items? They certainly serve an important function, but do airlines allow flight with one missing anyway?

Cheers,
QantasA332
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:00 pm

Stuff on the outside of the aircraft is covered by the Configuration Deviation List (CDL) while the MEL covers internal mechanical stuff.

I don't know if stall fences can be CDL'ed without looking it up, but if you give me a specific aircraft to work with, I'll try and find out for you...
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QantasA332
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RE: Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:36 pm

Thanks for that, OPNLguy. I don't really have a specific aircraft in mind, so if you can get your hands on the relevant info for any aircraft with stall fences, that'd be great!

Cheers,
QantasA332
 
spencer
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RE: Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:26 pm

Did the Caravelle have them, or did they serve another purpose?
Spencer.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:10 am

Since they have a great influence on the aerodynamic behaviour of the plane (You wouldn´t want to have assymetric stalls because the fence is missing on one wing), I don´t think that they are deferrable.
For example the strakes (big vortex generators) you´ll find on the engine cowlings of the 737-300 onwards, B757 and MD-11 are no go items.

Jan
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HAWK21M
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RE: Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:12 am

How about Winglets on a B737NG.Would that be a CDL item.  Smile
regds
MEL
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LeanOfPeak
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RE: Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:19 am

Any asymmetry would be a big deal. If you removed BOTH winglets, you'd probably be OK, since the aircraft is certificated without them. But removing only one would be unacceptable, I would think.
 
meister808
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RE: Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:52 am

Well, that is a hard call, since MEL and CDL(I assume, I have no experience with CDL) differ by model and operator. To get a real good answer, you would have to look at the Master Minimum Equipment List(MMEL) for the specific model, and even then, every operator may have slightly different rules. If the operator proves(somehow) that having a missing stall fence doesn't adversely afect flight safety, it will probably be deferrable. I would guess it is a no-go.

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SlamClick
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RE: Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:49 am

Well, the only MEL/CDL I could find easily in the Garage branch of my tech library is for the Fokker F-100 and is dated 2001 so may not be current. Besides that, I've never checked out on the F-100 and really don't know the airplane. However, I do know how to read an MEL/CDL and here is what I find.

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Photo © Rafal Szczypek


This photo seems to show a stall fence. I don't know what Fokker might actually call it. After "lift dumpers" I would not hazard a guess as to what they might call their parts.

The CDL does not list this item. It depicts, what I assume to be this part as a "B.L.F." in the wing bottom illustration. "Boundary Layer Fence" perhaps?

Since it is not listed, it is a no-go item.
Left wing is not listed. You may not fly with the left wing missing, even if you remove the right wing for balance and symmetry. Smile

Again, no real authority here, but that is what I found. If this proves to be correct it really only would prove it in relation to this aiframe type.
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aeroweanie
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RE: Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:58 am

> How about Winglets on a B737NG.Would that be a CDL item.

I know that a 747-400 can depart with one winglet and I'm pretty certain a 737NG can too. There is a picture in the a.net database of a 737NG with one winglet.

As stall fence is critical to having correct stall characteristics. A winglet is less important.
 
dl757md
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RE: Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:39 am

I know that a 747-400 can depart with one winglet and I'm pretty certain a 737NG can too. There is a picture in the a.net database of a 737NG with one winglet.

I can't speak about the 747-400 or the 737NG with winglets as DL doesn't fly either, however the wingtip strake on the 767-400 can be missing per the CDL provided both are removed.

Dl757Md
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pilotpip
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RE: Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:58 am

Most aircraft can be missing a number or vortex generators per their CDL. The nose strakes on the MD-80 are no-gos as well. Then again, they are heated with bleed air too so it's a little more complex than riveting a new one on.
DMI
 
QantasA332
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RE: Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:30 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone! Stall fences are certainly quite important devices which can alter stalling characteristics to the point where they become a necessary 'safety measure' (for lack of a better term) - something that isn't necessarily true of winglets (which, as far as I know, are listed as CDL items on some aircraft). So, I guess what I would imagine is about right then?

Thanks again!
Cheers,
QantasA332
 
bio15
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RE: Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:09 pm

Greetings, sorry for asking so late, but what is a stall fence? I found nothing on the search except for this topic

Alfredo


*edit typos

[Edited 2005-01-25 04:10:32]
 
QantasA332
Topic Author
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RE: Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:46 pm

Greetings, sorry for asking so late, but what is a stall fence?

Stall fences are thin plates mounted on the wing of an aircraft which help to prevent the outward-moving, spanwise component of airflow commonly found on swept wings. This spanwise flow thickens the boundary layer at the wingtips and as a result gives the wing a tips-first stall tendency - something which needs to be properly dealt with in order to maintain aileron effectiveness through a stall. Stall fences are one of a few different devices which can be used.

In the photo in SlamClick's post above, the stall fence is just below the lefthand emergency exit.

Cheers,
QantasA332
 
bio15
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RE: Stall Fences - MEL Items?

Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:11 pm

Good info, thank you. It seems right that they don't belong to the CDL since they alter the wing's performance on a stall which could be serious.

Regards
Alfredo

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