At least half of all the greasers I've ever done in a C172S have been flat. I always get something by the words "very nice but flat" or something like that from my instructors. Many of my friends have told me that their greasers tend to be flat too. I mean, who cares? I put the plane nice and softly back to earth didn't I? Is this just an Embry-Riddle thing or are all instructors the same when it comes to a flat landing?
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- corey07850
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RE: Flat Landing = Bad Landing?
Flat landings risk having 3 point landings, or even worse, slamming the nose gear down first. The nose gear isn't made to handle the stress of nailing the runway pretty hard. Doing so can cause a lot of damage to the strut, and even the firewall. You also run the risk of hitting the prop if you come in too flat.
I used to have some great greasers that were real flat and wondered the same thing as you did, but once you have your first perfect landing with a great flare and the stall warning horn going off just as you touch down, you'll recognize the difference instantly
BTW if you search through the database there's a picture of one of our DAB riddle 172's that had its whole interior stolen while getting maintenance... this was because it was getting its firewall repaired after a hard landing on the nose gear.
I used to have some great greasers that were real flat and wondered the same thing as you did, but once you have your first perfect landing with a great flare and the stall warning horn going off just as you touch down, you'll recognize the difference instantly
BTW if you search through the database there's a picture of one of our DAB riddle 172's that had its whole interior stolen while getting maintenance... this was because it was getting its firewall repaired after a hard landing on the nose gear.
RE: Flat Landing = Bad Landing?
You might get a greaser but it is a cheat, by smoothly flying the thing onto the ground in a flat attitude but at slightly too high a speed.
If you think about it, holding it off, bleeding the speed (energy) off requires that you coax it into ever more nose-up attitude. If you can do this while keeping the mains one inch above the runway you'll get a decent landing when it finally runs out of flying speed. If you can maintain the mains a quarter inch off the ground until that happens you have a grease job.
(An inch and a quarter inch were figurative heights.)
He he is dead right about nose gears not being made for landings, especially in the lower end airplanes.
If you think about it, holding it off, bleeding the speed (energy) off requires that you coax it into ever more nose-up attitude. If you can do this while keeping the mains one inch above the runway you'll get a decent landing when it finally runs out of flying speed. If you can maintain the mains a quarter inch off the ground until that happens you have a grease job.
(An inch and a quarter inch were figurative heights.)
He he is dead right about nose gears not being made for landings, especially in the lower end airplanes.
RE: Flat Landing = Bad Landing?
Some airplanes by virtue of their design normally very flat approaches and landings compared to other airplanes. The Challenger and CRJ come to mind.
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- XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Flat Landing = Bad Landing?
in the CRJ our approach is right at 2.5 degrees nose down... but you end up about 3 degrees nose up in the flare. Cut the power around 70-50 feet.. bring the nose level at 20 and ease it up a bit more at the 10 foot call.
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- MD11Engineer
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RE: Flat Landing = Bad Landing?
In Shannon we had an MD-80 for a D-check, where we discovered that the whole nose section was distorted around the nose gear trunnions. Apparently somebody landed this plane on it´s nose gear first. For the customer the check turned out to be quite a bit more expensive than planned, because our inspector insisted on having this area repaired before he would sign the release to service.
Jan
Jan
RE: Flat Landing = Bad Landing?
I had the same problem you are describing the first few times I flew a 172. I did my training in a TB-9 and it has a much less efficient wing and short, stiff struts being pulled along by a 160hp engine. It was basically a matter of going straight from descent to flare and touchdown in one smooth motion. When I tried doing this in the Skyhawk, I floated and ended up with a nice, flat landing. What an ego buster. It brought this cocky new private pilot back to reality real fast
My instructor suggested this, it worked for me: When you get to that level pitch attitude on your flare, keep pulling back until the spinner is level with the horizon and hold it. No more problems landing the Skychicken for me. You may need different reference points but try applying this technique.
Oh yeah, be good to those airplanes. They have dozens of others saying "I mean, who cares?" who don't take the time to lean the mixture and foul plugs, try making the plane think it's an RG by slamming into terra firma as hard as they can in the hopes that the gear retracts, lock the brakes on roll out, drag them on taxi, wheelbarrel them, start without noticing the bird nest in the cowling, deflect the controls abruptly above maneuvering speed and the list goes on. Show good technique and good airmanship and take pride in your ability and your aircraft. In return, the aircraft will take care of you. You'll also become a better pilot.
My instructor suggested this, it worked for me: When you get to that level pitch attitude on your flare, keep pulling back until the spinner is level with the horizon and hold it. No more problems landing the Skychicken for me. You may need different reference points but try applying this technique.
Oh yeah, be good to those airplanes. They have dozens of others saying "I mean, who cares?" who don't take the time to lean the mixture and foul plugs, try making the plane think it's an RG by slamming into terra firma as hard as they can in the hopes that the gear retracts, lock the brakes on roll out, drag them on taxi, wheelbarrel them, start without noticing the bird nest in the cowling, deflect the controls abruptly above maneuvering speed and the list goes on. Show good technique and good airmanship and take pride in your ability and your aircraft. In return, the aircraft will take care of you. You'll also become a better pilot.
RE: Flat Landing = Bad Landing?
In case of an Airliner.
A nose gear first impact though rare.If presumingly does occur,& the pilots dont report it.And if the DFDR/SFDR/FDR check is not called for at that time.Is there anyway of knowing it occured,unless a Major check inspection locates the damage.
regds
MEL
A nose gear first impact though rare.If presumingly does occur,& the pilots dont report it.And if the DFDR/SFDR/FDR check is not called for at that time.Is there anyway of knowing it occured,unless a Major check inspection locates the damage.
regds
MEL
RE: Flat Landing = Bad Landing?
Years ago, at an airline I worked at, I got a call from a remote base asking how to turn off the ELT on one of our KingAir 200s.
I asked how exactly the ELT was activated. They told me that the pilots experienced a hard landing. I asked if they were going to conduct a detailed inspection of the nose wheel since ELTs don't typically activate on downward Gs. They are primarily meant to detect deceleration in the forward direction.
I was assured it was just a firm landing on the mains.
About 2 weeks later, the airplane made an precautionary landing when loud noises were heard when the gear was selected up. The red in-transit light remained on until down was selected at which time the gear extended and three-green was indicated.
Once we checked the airplane out, we found that one nose gear door was damaged because the nose gear was retracting at an angle. Upon further inspection it was found that the hefty attachment pin that connected the gear to the airplane was broken on one end.
Airplanes are not typically designed to have the nose wheel absorb the entire landing load. ANY airplane that has an ELT activate inadvertantly really needs a detailed hard landing inspection.
I asked how exactly the ELT was activated. They told me that the pilots experienced a hard landing. I asked if they were going to conduct a detailed inspection of the nose wheel since ELTs don't typically activate on downward Gs. They are primarily meant to detect deceleration in the forward direction.
I was assured it was just a firm landing on the mains.
About 2 weeks later, the airplane made an precautionary landing when loud noises were heard when the gear was selected up. The red in-transit light remained on until down was selected at which time the gear extended and three-green was indicated.
Once we checked the airplane out, we found that one nose gear door was damaged because the nose gear was retracting at an angle. Upon further inspection it was found that the hefty attachment pin that connected the gear to the airplane was broken on one end.
Airplanes are not typically designed to have the nose wheel absorb the entire landing load. ANY airplane that has an ELT activate inadvertantly really needs a detailed hard landing inspection.
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- greasespot
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RE: Flat Landing = Bad Landing?
We had a 737 written off because the pilot landed on the nose gear first. Drove it hard enough up that the floor was distorted and the pilots had to exit through the window. The airplane was essentially wrinkled at the forward production splice.
GS
GS
RE: Flat Landing = Bad Landing?
On most jets the ELT [Impact type] is located at the Aft.In case of a Nose slam landing,I dont think the ELT would detect it.[A possibility] In such cases,what are the options for Mx.We'd never know until a Snag occured enroute or during a Major check on that area,Presumingly it was not reported initially.
regds
MEL
regds
MEL
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- stealthpilot
- Posts: 502
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RE: Flat Landing = Bad Landing?
Hahahah my instructor says the same thing. I don’t do it that often tho
Imagine doing a 3 point landing in a crosswind, you won’t have much control and a sudden gust can catch u off guard. 3 pointers arnt the best thing!
I got a solo tomorrow afternoon, gona practice short landings on 7R or 25L
-Nikhil
Imagine doing a 3 point landing in a crosswind, you won’t have much control and a sudden gust can catch u off guard. 3 pointers arnt the best thing!
I got a solo tomorrow afternoon, gona practice short landings on 7R or 25L
-Nikhil
RE: Flat Landing = Bad Landing?
Flat landing=bad landing....
Not in a floatplane.
Not in a floatplane.
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