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atomother
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Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:02 am

Was looking at one of the photos I took a while back of a biz jet and got to wondering...
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Have there been any accidents where people have climbed out of the emergencey exit and ended up having parts of them sucked into the engine? It just seems that at least on this example that exit could be in a rather bad location, not that there are many other options.

 
dl757md
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:30 am

Emergency escape procedure;
Pull handle.
Remove door from hole.
If engine is still running throw door into engine. Big grin
Exit aircraft through door.

Seriously though I have no clue what the procedures would be in that situation.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
citationjet
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:01 am

There has never been an incident like you mentioned that I know of on a biznet. The regulations require an emergency exit on each side of the airplane. The only concern in exiting thru the emergency exit is touching the engine inlet if it is hot from having the engine inlet de-ice on due to icing.
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learpilot
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:13 pm

If you're in a situation where you have to use that exit, more than likely the engine(s) will not be running. Before the evacuation command is given by the flightcrew (if they're conscious), they will have already shut down the engines if they haven't already shut down themselves.  Wow!

But if it is still running, like Dl757md said, that door's about to be thrown into the intake. It won't be running for long! Big grin
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pilotpip
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:52 pm

If you're needing to use that exit, the engines running or not is the least of your worries. Plus, I honestly don't think that there would be enough there to get pulled in. I could be wrong though.
DMI
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:50 pm

Why wern't they located more Fwd.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
57AZ
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:37 pm

Probably to ensure that there is an exit available at each end of the cabin. On many high performance piston and turboprops, the emergency exit is located just aft of the forward bulkhead on the starboard side of the cabin. This is due to the fact that the main cabin door and airstairs are located at the aft end of the cabin on the port side and provides the occupants and pilots an emergency egress route should something prevent them from accessing the aft door.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:05 pm

Also, if you locate the exits further forward, you run into cabin layout problems.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
citationjet
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:43 pm

Per FAR 25.807(f) Emergency Exits:
Location: If only one floor level exit per side is prescribed, and the airplane does not have a tailcone or ventral emergency exit, the floor level exits must be in the rearward part of the passenger compartment unless another location affords a more effective means of passenger evacuation.
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...y/rgFAR.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

On the 560XL, the RH emergency exit is at the lavatory window.
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lekohawk
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:22 pm

Is throwing the door into the engine a feasible possibility? Seems like that'd be an awful dangerous way to get an engine to shut down. I have mental images of shrapnel flying everywhere.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:45 pm

Quoting Lekohawk (reply 9):
Is throwing the door into the engine a feasible possibility? Seems like that'd be an awful dangerous way to get an engine to shut down. I have mental images of shrapnel flying everywhere


Has this Door thrown in Engine been done before ever.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
jetstar
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:21 am

Most biz jet engines are not powerful enough to suck someone in even if you standing very close to the inlet.

On the Lockheed JetStar, there is one plug type emergency exit on each side in the main cabin located directly opposite each other over the wings. Inside the fuselage opening there is a nylon rope called a ditching rope that attaches to a small metal tab located on the top of the auxiliary fuel tank. The purpose of this is in case of ditching at sea, the rope would provide a handhold to allow the passengers to walk out on the wing and get into the life rafts.


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On the Gulfstream series of biz jets there are 2 large oval plug type escape hatches adjacent to each other on each side of the fuselage mid cabin over the wings. They are also equipped with the ditching rope system.


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Almost all airplanes have their escape hatches over the wings to allow for the use of the wings as a platform to walk on. Even on some biz jets, the distance from the escape hatch to the ground can be over 8 feet, which is to high for safety reasons. By walking out on the wings and then sitting down and sliding off is much safer than jumping out headfirst from an escape hatch to the ground.

There has to be emergency egress from each side of the airplane in case one side is blocked by fire and cannot be used for escape. If the aircraft is only equipped with one plug type emergency exit only on one side, which some small biz jets have, then the entrance door which is located on the opposite side is classified as an emergency exit.
 
citationjet
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:35 am

Quoting HAWK21M (reply 10):
Has this Door thrown in Engine been done before ever


Throwing the emergency exit door into the engine on a Citation 560XL is not as easy as it sounds. The door weighs 47 lb, and is 35 inches high and 24 inches wide. As seen in the photo below, it will only fit into the engine lengthwise. The door is heavy enough that the person would have to remove the exit door, either throw it onto the wing or carry it thru the door, then throw the door into the engine while standing on the wing. It would not seem possible to throw the door into the engine while still standing inside the cabin. I think most people would open the door, throw it outside per the instructions, and exit the airplane on the wing.
I am not aware of anyone getting sucked into the engine of a business jet. Most of the time when you are exiting thru this door the engine would not be operating, or possibly operating at idle thrust. The only concern the FAA has had in this exit configuration is the potential of passengers burning their hands if they would hold onto the leading edge (the shiny portion on the front) of the nacelle that was heated for anti-ice protection.

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HAWK21M
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:01 pm

Any Emergency Situation involving the Above Aircraft,What happened in the Evacuation process.
regds
MEL
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lekohawk
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:32 pm

Has there been some solution devised regarding human flesh's incompatibility with that engine cowling in an escape situation or are the passengers just on their own to figure it out? Perhaps the first person out is to make the mistake, and then everyone else, upon hearing that refreshing "sizzle" and accompanying scream will know to find some other hand hold on their way out the door?  Innocent

Seriously, though, is there a reason the nozzle needs to be hot enough to burn someone's hand? I would think that melting ice wouldn't require that much heat. Generally a few degrees above freezing (perhaps 20 degrees F or so, just to be on the safe side) is enough to do the trick. No?
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
 
pilotpip
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:37 am

You don't even want ice to have a chance to form at the engine inlet. That's why it's so hot.

I said it earlier. If you're using an emergency exit the last thing on your mind is that hot inlet. You're probably in much more danger than just burning your hand if you stay in the aircraft. Naturally, this door is for an abnomal situation. You wouldn't want to use it unless the cabin door is obstructed or inoperative. What about slides on big aircraft? Those are likely to cause injury from the height alone not to mention the hundreds of people that are pushing and forcing their way in a panicked fashion while trying to escape through those doors. Not to mention the dangers of people in close proximity to larger powerplants.
DMI
 
cancidas
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:29 pm

i've stood directly below engines on CRJ-200s and EMB-145s while they're running and not even had my ID sucked in. they simply don't produce enough suction to take an entire person and pull them in. besides, a human body would generally not fit in the cowling.
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AvionicMech
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RE: Emergency Exits On Biz Jets

Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:08 pm

Maybe at idle these engines don't produce enough suction to pull anyone in but I know that someone has been sucked into the engine of a BAe 146 when I believe it was doing power runs. So lets not forget people that there can be a fine line between being safe and not in this industry.

Avionic Mech

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