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Horus
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RJ And Turboprop Performance At 'hot' Airports

Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:12 pm

I was hoping someone can explain to me the differences in performance, comfort and reliability between regional jets and turboprops when operating in and out of 'hot and high' airports. I understand that at these conditions both will underperform, but how do they compare?

The reason I ask if because Egyptair announced in last month's Avex Airshow at SSH that they will order 6 regional aircraft for operations on domestic and regional flights. Here is an extract from an article about this:

" Two major manufacturers of small aircraft competed to sell EgyptAir their 50-seat aircraft. Aviation authorities looking to modernise the carrier's fleet have been involved in negotiations with the Canadian company Bombardier and the Brazilian Embraer over the past two years. To give live displays, company officials organised a number of round-trip flights aboard small jets to Aswan and Luxor for top officials and businessmen.

The aviation minister announced during the exhibition that the carrier will buy six new small aircraft to work on regional and domestic routes. "The purchase will be through AirCairo airline which is 51 per cent owned by EgyptAir," he explained. Shafiq did not specify any date for the deal or name which of the two companies had won the contract."

(source: Al Ahram newspaper)


The ERJ-145, CRJ200 and Dash 8 are forerunners to win this order.

Thanks in advance

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
troubleshooter
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RE: RJ And Turboprop Performance At 'hot' Airports

Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:39 am

As far as I know the EMB 145 XR was designed especially for "hot and high" conditions.

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But I have no performance data for one of these aircrafts to compare them.
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RE: RJ And Turboprop Performance At 'hot' Airports

Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:44 pm

The EMB-145 XR was designed to operate at high-altitude airports with elevations over 8,000 feet. It also has additional, higher thrust settings not available on other Embraer jets. As far as I know, Continental Express is the only airline that uses the XR model of the Embraer. There is one destination in Mexico that they serve that is higher than 8,000 feet...Toluca, Mexico. Also, with the higher thrust settings available, the XR model rarely ever has weight limitations due to performance issues or fuel burns. It'd have to fly nearly four hours before the max landing weight would be the restriction at takeoff.
 
Horus
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RE: RJ And Turboprop Performance At 'hot' Airports

Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:33 am

Thanks for the replies. Only a handful of airlines operate regional aircraft in Middle East and they all operate turbo props (PAS, Royal Wings, Oman Air, etc).

As for the EMB-145 XR, it would seem like the logical choice. The ERJ-145 is already the likely candidate against the CRJ200 as its much more competively priced. Also last year Egypt and Brazil signed an agreement to increase trade. So ordering the EMB-145 XR which is specifically designed for hot and high conditions is an obvious choice.

Besides more powerful engines what's the difference between the XR and the standard model? Will it effect the residual value of the jets if they ever plan to re-sell them?

I would appreciate any feedback on how this compares to turboprops?

OPNLguy, hope you read this...

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
troubleshooter
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RE: RJ And Turboprop Performance At 'hot' Airports

Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:28 am

The only big differences between the XR and the other ERJ versions are the AE3007A1E engines and the winglets. The fuel tank quantity was increased, too (XR = extended range). There may be some more (but minor) system changes.
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Horus
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RE: RJ And Turboprop Performance At 'hot' Airports

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:28 am

Thanks Troubleshooter. Shame no one knows how turboprops and RJs compare.

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
mandala499
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RE: RJ And Turboprop Performance At 'hot' Airports

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:40 am

I expect the differences in performance between the two won't be that much different from standard temperatures...

What kind of differences are you looking at?

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
Horus
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RE: RJ And Turboprop Performance At 'hot' Airports

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 6):
What kind of differences are you looking at?



Quoting Horus (Thread starter):
I was hoping someone can explain to me the differences in performance, comfort and reliability between regional jets and turboprops when operating in and out of 'hot and high' airports

 Smile

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
lowrider
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RE: RJ And Turboprop Performance At 'hot' Airports

Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:02 am

There are a few more factors to consider besides climate. If runway dimensions are a limiting factor, I would tend to lean toward the Dash. If you have relatively long runways with easy clearways, then that advantage disappears for the dash. It also depends on what your typical stage lengths will be. Many short legs (200 miles or less) would favor the Dash while a mixture or lengths of about 400 miles or more would favor the RJ. You also have to look at what customer demand is. In the continental US, there is a strong preference for jets, in other parts of the world, customers are more open to turboprops.
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mandala499
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RE: RJ And Turboprop Performance At 'hot' Airports

Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:49 am

"I was hoping someone can explain to me the differences in performance, comfort and reliability between regional jets and turboprops when operating in and out of 'hot and high' airports"

Sorry Horus, I must have missed that one LOL...
Comfort? Well, if U're talking HOT temps (35C)... as long as the aircraft can have an APU... If not, you could be in for a "dark-ish" sweaty boarding scrum (min Cabin lights)

That's why ATRs and CN235s here run their #2 engines at H-Mode to provide power and air conditioning for boarding. It's supposed to be cheaper than actually having an APU, but some pilots don't want to do that... And if no prop brake, well, make sure U got a security guard not too far from the prop... We got 2 pax running into a running C212 prop last month and killed them  Sad Silly incident but it still happens and the risk is there...

Runway <1500m, go props...
Sector length <200NM, go props...
Runway >1500m AND sector length >200NM (ticket price not a factor), go RJ !
Runway <1500m AND sector length >200NM, You may want to take a dip at the RJ70 and see if your pocket will have a hole in it Big grin

Other factors: Runway, Apron and Taxiway PCN... U may have a 2000m runway but if it's a 10 FDYU PCN... errr... Go Props Big grin

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !

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