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Jmurman
Topic Author
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Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:40 am

Hello!

I am writing a fictional novel that involves two aircraft flying to Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of the Congo.

I received some very good advice regarding how the conversations should take place.

I am posting the two conversations and if you would, please check my language to see if it would be correct.

The first conversation is between a Cessna 185 flying VFR coming from the interior of the country towards Kinshaha.


The Skywagon had droned on at 5,000 feet and they were about 40 minutes from Kibinga.
“Zulu Sierra Alpha Oscar Tango, this is Kinshasa ATC, acknowledge, over.” The radio voice sounded faint and distant as they were finally spotted electronically from Kinshasa Air Traffic Control.
“Kinshasa Tower. Zulu Sierra Alpha Oscar Tango, Cessna 185, we are approximately 150 kms from Kabinga and are VFR originating from Mangai Li.” Marten replied to the ATC.
“Roger Alpha Oscar Tango. Have you gone anywhere near Kikwit today?” Kinshasa ATC sounded a little concerned.
“No Kinshasa, we just came from an animal viewing trip at Mangai Li.”
“For your information, the Kikwit region is under a total quarantine and is off limits.” Now the ATC sounded slightly more authoritative with this message.
“Roger, Kinshasa, we will be flying VFR to our base approximately 20 kms to the southeast from you for a refueling. I do need to visit Central Airframe Repair for some parts and will contact you later.”
“Roger Alpha Oscar Tango, you are VFR for a refuel approximately 20 kms to our southwest with a final destination of Kinshasa.”
“Alpha Oscar Tango, out.” Maarten and Maureen looked at each other and smiled, knowing that they had made it of Kikwit and their ruse was working.


The next conversation is from a Gulfstream G500 that is making their first radio contact with Kinshasa. The G500 and the C185 will meet later in the story and are central to the plot.


“Skipper, how far are we from Kinshasa? Ray had ventured into the computerized cockpit of the Gulfstream.
“I put us about 2 hours out, approximately 1,200 miles.” Bill Gunderson said as he studied the digital map displayed on one of the 4 large computer screens. “We should be heading 080°; however, we are 090°. This will put us about 350 miles south of Kinshasa. Maybe they will be sharp enough to notice our “error” Bill smiled
“Ok, let’s make our call.” Len said as he entered Kinshasa’s frequency into the radio. “Kinshasa, this is Papa Romeo Charlie Bravo Romeo, Gulfstream 500, we are approximately 1900 kilometers from your location. Our heading is 080°
and are at 45,000 feet. Request clearance to enter your control zone.”
Kinshasa ATC, after checking their records for approved clearances, responded “Papa Romeo Charlie Bravo Romeo, Gulfstream 500, we have you inbound and your request is approved for landing, refueling and continuance to Tanzania.” After a few minutes, Kinshasa reported back. “Charlie Bravo Romeo, we show you at a heading of 090°, not 080°. You are about 550 kms off course to the south.”
Len looked over at Bill and smiled. “They noticed.”
“Kinshasa, it looks like you are correct. Evidently we have a malfunctioning instrument. We will make the change manually. By the way, do you have anyone at your airport that works on avionics instruments?” Len already knew the answer and hoped the ATC would make the recommendation.
“Yes there is a company at our Technical Area that does avionics repairs. They are very good, might I add. Would you like for us to contact them for you?” The ATC smiled as he knew he would receive a commission for this referral.
“Thank you Kinshasa, we would appreciate that. Charlie Bravo Romero, out.”

Now, both of these conversations are still in the first draft so please pardon the 'roughness' I just need to see if the ATC/185/G500 language is correct.

Many Many Thanks!!!!
Jerry
 
727EMflyer
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:19 am

Well, I can't really speak for ATC in africa, but if they do anything like they do here ins the US, your gulfstream would no doubt be IFR and in comms for the entire trip, speaking with an ARTCC. You don't arbitrarily decide who to talk to.
As for the cessna, ATC doesn't initiate comms, the plane does and not until he's preparing to enter the airport's airspace for landing or transit. All that "chatter" about repairs and what not for both should stay off of ATC.

Gotta go, more to follow...
 
Jmurman
Topic Author
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:39 am

ok, thanks! I appreciate your help. So, I need the Cessna to make initial contact. Not a problem.

As far as the G500, then how does the G500 say that they are in need of repairs? The conversation for the G500 to have repairs is a ruse to get to the Technical Area. Could the G500 speak to someone else besides the ATC?
 
727EMflyer
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:18 am

Well as far as where the aircraft goes on the tarmac at the airport, the ground controller takes care of that once the plane leaves the runway. I get the feeling you think of ATC as something of a police agency. Really they are just there to keep aircraft from hitting each other. The plane can go where it pleases (within reason... Obviously a private jet isn't going to go the the pax terminal).
As for getting to your technical area, once the plane lands and taxis off the runway the pilot would contact ground and say his intentions of going to the shop rather than an ordinary parking area. "Kinshasa ground, Gulfstream PRCB runway X at twy N, taxi to maintenance hangars." The ground controller would acknowledge and give clearance to taxi or have him hold untill other traffic is out of the way. Now assuming the pilot is unfamiliar with the airport, he can request "Progressive Taxi" and the ground controller will guide him in.
In flight, the pilot might talk to a flight service station (Kinshasa radio?) for informal conversations. They would be the ones who can take the time to talk to the avionics tech's for him.

One other note on the cessna, VFR flights do not need clearances to anywhere except into/out of Bravo airspace. Just like on the ground, he can fly pretty much wherever he wants. ATC doesn't know one plane from the other, or know or care where their destinations are. I see your conversations seem to be to establish a cover story for something. Maybe the most you need is to fake some damage to the planes so you can walk away with your maintenance records.
 
Jmurman
Topic Author
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:43 pm

RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:17 am

727EMfkyer,

Thanks for the insight. Would ground control be on a different frequency that ATC? Yes, I thought that the ATC would be the main controlling body in an airport...that being said, I have NO idea what an ATC in a place like Kinshasa would be like. For the life of me I could not fathom that they would be anything what is here in the US.

Yes, the conversations are a cover to bring 'something' out of the DRC. The C185 has a scientist and the G500 is a corporate bird that is 3rd partied by the CIA.

Again, thanks!

I really do want to have a realistic conversation take place with the two flights, as I hate books that sound good on the cover, but have no reality.
 
PPGMD
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:48 am

The average IFR departure would talk to the following:
Clearance Delivery (to get the clearances to depart, and routing information that they are cleared on)
Ground (to taxi to the active runway)
Tower (controls pattern traffic, aircraft landing, and taking off)
Departure Control (during the initial parts of the climb)
Center (during the later parts of the climb and cruising)

Now the aircraft is coming back down
Center
Approach (same role as departure, just for inbound aircraft)
Tower
Ground

All these are parts of the ATC system.

VFR departure from untowered airport:
Taxi to runway
Announce intentions to take off
Take off
Fly to destination
Announce intentions to land at airport (with position reports if they so choose)
land
Announce clear of runway

Now if you are trying to get the G500 and the Cessna in the same area covertly, you could simply have both aircraft to come to the same FBO (handles fuel, and MX at most airports), for different reasons.

Now things may be different at this particular airport, and this is only an example, as procedures differ. For example many local airports will skip ground all together when traffic is slow.

Now there are other ways that you can do things, the CIA could operate rough field cable aircraft like the PC-12, Grand Caravan, or Twin Otter, and the two aircraft could meet at a dirt field.
 
Jmurman
Topic Author
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:05 am

PPGMD,

Thanks for your help. I've tried to think of a better way to do this, but factoring everything in, this is the best way.

BTW the reality is that anything in Kinshasa involves bribery, extortion and flat out violence...not a pretty place.
 
FredT
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:22 am

Believe it or not, but there is an entire organisation out there dedicated to providing live ATC online to simulator pilots. They have put together a training guide of sorts which should serve you well, as it has transcripts of typical radio communications throughout the different phases of flight. Give it a read. There are of course also the radio certificate training books. I would recommend a few sectionals over the area as well... whatever exists.

I have no knowledge of procedures around SA, but I would have written that part of the story something like this:


C – Cessna. A – ATC. G – Gulfstream

------------


C: Kinshasa control, Zulu Sierra Alpha Oscar Tango

A: Zulu Sierra Alpha Oscar Tango, Kinshasa

C: Kinshasa Control, with you at 5000 feet, 80 [nautical] miles north[/south/west/east] Kabinga, estimating [name of the base] time 20 [time in minutes past the hour]

[If radar coverage, possibly add:

Zulu Oscar Tango, squawk 5734 and ident

5734 and ident, Oscar Tango

Zulu Oscar Tango, radar contact.]

Zulu Oscar Tango, cleared to [name of the base], maintain 5000

Cleared [name of the base, 5000, Oscar Tango.

Zulu Oscar Tango, for your information Kikwit is under quarantine. Remain outside of XXX [nautical] miles.

Roger, Oscar Tango.


------------------

“Skipper, how far are we from Kinshasa? Ray had ventured into the computerized cockpit of the Gulfstream.
“I put us about 2 hours out, approximately 1,200 miles.” Bill Gunderson said as he studied the digital map displayed on the navigational display in front of him. “We should be heading 080°; however, we are 090°. This will put us about 350 miles south of Kinshasa. Maybe they will be sharp enough to notice our “error” Bill smiled
“Ok, let’s make our call.” Len said as he entered Kinshasa’s frequency into the radio.

G: Kinshasa control, Papa Romeo Charlie Bravo Romeo

A: Papa Romeo Charlie Bravo Romeo, Kinshasa

G: Kinshasa control, with you flight level four five zero estimating [control point on the border of Kinshasa airspace, you will have to adjust the distance and time to Kinshasa accordingly] 45 minutes past the hour inbound Kinshasa.

The Kinshasa controller already had the paper strip with the flight plan for the Gulfstream printed out on a flight strip in front of him. The controller verified the transponder code, location and altitude against the blip on his radar screen, noted down the arrival on the strip and moved it over to the part of the table reserved for inbound flights under his command.

A: Papa Bravo Romeo, radar contact, cleared Kinshasa.

Cleared Kinshasa, Papa Bravo Romeo.

After a few minutes, the controller noted that the aircraft was not on the direct route to Kinshasa.

A: Papa Bravo Romeo, say your heading*

G: Zero eight zero, Bravo Romeo.

Papa Bravo Romeo, turn left heading one seven zero for Kinshasa.

Aaah... left one seven zero, Bravo Romeo.

After a few minutes, Len got back on the radio.

G: Kinshasa control, Papa Bravo Romeo, it appears we have a directional gyro acting up. Is [name of avionics shop at Kinshasa] open? [Have them do their homework first]

A: Papa Bravo Romeo, yes there is and they’re open until [whatever time]. Would you like me to notify them you are inbound?

Thank you Kinshasa, we would appreciate that, Bravo Romeo.

The ATCO [Air traffic control officer] smiled as he knew he would receive a commission for this referral.


*) ATC always gives vectors relative to what they have in the cockpit. If they are flying 030, should be heading 060 and say they are 050, ATC will tell them to fly 080 if that is what it takes to get them on the right course. This way, winds aloft, magnetic variation etc will not cause a problem... for anyone but the poor controller trying to make sense of it all.


Also a very quick draft, I'm sure people with experience of the region and procedures will fill in and correct any errors on my part.



Cheers,
Fred

(Edit due to mixing up the vectors. Merely to prove my point about the poor controller getting a headache, of course...  Wink)

[Edited 2005-03-18 21:24:55]
 
Jmurman
Topic Author
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:43 pm

RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:38 am

Fred, I certainly thank you for your input.

I really appreciate all of the help you guys have given so far.

Thumbs up!
Jerry
 
wing
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:48 am

Jmurman,

First I'd like to wish you best of luck with your novel,I'd like to to add some insight from my experience of flying around Africa.I must say I have never flew over or around D.R of Congo airspace but generally speaking of the african airspaces there are two major differences from the European(and American)airspace.Due to technical and financial difficulties radar coverage is very weak or non existent in most African countries,navaid and VHF coverage is also weak compared to Europe.

Flying around the Africa requires a lot of HF comminication which is veryhard to understand compared to the VHF,and transmitting position reports into the airspace which is something like" All stations all stations,This is AirXXX,southbound to destination Kinshasa,FL 370 over point XXXXX,estimating point YYYYY next at 20:45 and point ZZZZZ at 21:05.All stations this is AirXXX southbound..."
This is pretty much the transmission of your position report to the other traffic around you.Lots of times you may request from the previous station you contacted and asked them to call the next station via telephone and report your estimated time of arrival and they know that it is you.

I really find it difficult to think that if they can identify you and your hdg change from 1900 NM away with only position reprts and blind transmissions.But again I must say I've never flew in Congo airspace and I don't know about their radar capabilities,but most countries I flew didnt have any.

More than one occasion that was the communication between us and the destination controller especially at night time;

"..... control good evening,Air XXX FL 330,120 NM south of the field requesting the field information"
".....Good evening AirXXX Runway in use...(basicly reads the ATIS information)and the altimeter setting..."
"Runway in use is 24 and altimeter 1015 copied and requesting descent clearence"
" AirXXX you are the only traffic reported tonight,you are cleared to descent,approach and land, on your descretion,call me short final..."(I know this may sound funny to most of you but I have recieved this clearence many times in airports in Sahara Desert at night time  Smile )
 
FredT
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:58 am

Wing, good one! Haha, cleared from cruise to landing in one call... is that the definition of a lonely night?

Agreed on the radar/radio coverage... but for the sake of the story I would assume at least VHF coverage, say through a slave transmitter. In my own, completely unfounded, understanding SA is way ahead of most of Africa as well. Didn't we have some SA residents around here? I recall seeing the flag on a post or two. The ones about the jumbo which landed on a strip more suited for GA?

Cheers,
Fred
 
727EMflyer
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:11 am

Yes, ground is on a different frequency, and it is still "ATC." but like PPGMD said, if the airport is not busy the tower controller will probably run ground also. This prompted me to look a little closer at your text. As listed in PPGMD's post, there are a lot of different levels of control. Air Route Traffic Control Centers (ARTCC, center for short) manage the traffic in class alpha and echo airspace. They are mainly there for IFR traffic since IFR must be in continuous communication. That is who your G500 would be talking to at his point. The center controllers keep aircraft spaced apart from each other enroute, while keeping each plane headed towards it's destination. VFR traffic can talk to a center to aid in traffic avoidance. Approach control manages traffic inbound to busy class bravo and charlie airspace and (sometimes) delta too. IFR will be handed off to the appropriate approach controller as he nears the airspace and VFR must contact approach before entering (For bravo airspace the plane must get clearance to enter, while charlie/delta only requires comms established). The approach controller will get the plane lined up to enter the traffic pattern, then when appropriate hand off to tower. Tower owns the traffic patterns, runways, and taxiways inside the ILS sensitive zones. At slow times and at small, unbusy airports, especially class delta airspace, tower will also assume the duties of the approach controller (and ground as mentioned before). Like PPGMD said, Departure control functions the same as approach, only backwards. Ground control manages the taxiways and busy ramp areas. Clearance delivery coordinates IFR clearances prior to departure and manages VFR departures out of busy airports. Its all "ATC." You would address each controller as the name of the location followed by the type of control: Kinshasa approach, Kinshasa tower, etc. Centers are a little different as each center will manage a large chunk of airspace with many airports. For example aircraft bound for DEN are actually in contact with Salt Lake Center until they enter DEN bravo airspace.
The basic organization described above should be pretty much universal, weather you're in the US or abroad. The way the centers work and role of flight service stations (mentioned in reply 1) might be a bit different from place to place.

Now for the meat of your conversation... Are you having the gulfstream divert to kinshasa from their original destination for repairs? Ok... Keep your course malfunction, have center notice and vector the g500 back on track, pilot says he is on that vector. Ah ha! notices a "malfunction." Then the pilot should ask center for a clearance into Kinshasa for repairs when kinshasa is the closest airport. Text abbreviated:
G500, Center, you are X miles of track, turn left heading 070. (to regain)
Roger center, left 070 G500.
Center, G500 looks like we have a malfunction in our heading indicator and nav system. We'd like to divert to kinshasa for repairs.
G500 understand you want to divert to kinshasa, stand by for clearance.
(wait a few minutes)
G500, center you are cleared direct Kinshasa fly heading xxx, descend and maintain 10,000 Ft.
Roger cleared direct kinshasa, xxx, 10,000 Ft, G500
At 10,000 Ft hand off to kinshasa approach and away you go.
 
727EMflyer
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:14 am

Sorry, that post seems late in the conversation. Took me a while since im at work.
 
doug_or
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:09 am

727EM- Your post looks good for US airspace, but I don't think a lot of that would be applicable to central Africa.
 
Yikes!
Posts: 360
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:23 am

There is very little to zero civil aviation radar in Central Africa. Therefore no radar vectors are available. Initial contact will be via HF. Navigation is completely in the hands of the pilot giving frequent position reports based on radial/DME. I fly into Brazzaville on the other side of the river. Much nicer place.

And VFR doesn't really apply here. You're either allowed to fly in any national airspace, or you're not. How you conduct your flight is usually left up to the pilot. You DO need permission to start engines, taxi and takeoff. Depending where you are, there are assorted punishments for failing to do any of these seemingly innocent functions.

Good luck with the book!
 
727EMflyer
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:22 am

RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:38 pm

Well, luckily I have a disclaimer in reply 1. Jmurman, I appologize for any circles I may have you running in. If you want to relocate your story to the US I would be glad to assist further. Looks like Yikes! can give you some good input.
 
Jmurman
Topic Author
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Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:43 pm

RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:59 pm

Everyone...thank you very much!

Yikes! I appreciate your input for sure. I certainly picture the non-existant sophistication of this region in regards to commercial avaition. When I look at the photos of Kinshasa that are on this site...especially the "Techincal Area". Wow, I feel like I need a tetanus shot just to view them!

I am wrapping up the final section of the 5 chapter intro. The next avaition related portion involves Apache Helo's in Iraq and I've got that one covered. There will be other avaition related snippets throughout, some military but mostly civilian. Cessna Caravans, Cessna 172, and maybe another business jet. I will be sure to bring any questions I have up in a thread.

I'll print this off and reconstruct my conversations....whew! Then I can be finally finished with this part.

I will certainly mention all of you in my acknowlegments.
 
Woodreau
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:02 am

I haven't read the whole thread as I'm just browsing, but I looked up the Jepp Charts for the Dem Republic of Congo....

There is no radar at Kinshasa, so separation will be done the old way, time, lateral, and vertical separation with position reporting in a non-radar environment.

There are STARs but none of them approach from the west. They all approach from the east or south. All of the STARS have a reporting requirement. Piston aircraft are required to make a position report to Kinshasa Approach at 80nm on the TMA boundary, Jet aircraft are required to make a position report to Kinshasa Approach at 150nm

Transition altitude is 5500ft, so any altitudes above 5500ft are referred to as flight levels, so the 45,000ft your G500 is flying at is Flight Level 450, or FL450.

And flights outside of published airways is strictly prohibited, although if there is no radar, I have no idea how they would enforce it.... and because there's no radar they won't notice a 10 degree deviation from assigned course or anything like that.

I haven't looked at the air route structure or anything like that.

So sorry to muck up things this late into the thread...
 
mandala499
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:41 am

" AirXXX you are the only traffic reported tonight,you are cleared to descent,approach and land, on your descretion,call me short final..."(I know this may sound funny to most of you but I have recieved this clearence many times in airports in Sahara Desert at night time)

How about...

" AirXXX you have zero traffic at this time,you are cleared to descent to circuit altitude and call me when you have visual..." I've had this a few times...

For night time...

" AirXXX you are the only traffic reported tonight,you are cleared to descent to circuit altitude call 5 minutes out so I can turn on the lights."

Yes it happens too...

Mandala499
 
mandala499
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:49 am

This one's a double post...  Sad

[Edited 2005-03-21 03:50:30]
 
Woodreau
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RE: Author In Need Of Conversational Help

Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:57 pm

Some references you may want to refer to are the pubs and charts for the area your novel is covering, the link is:

https://164.214.2.62/products/digitalaero/index.cfm#plan

On that page you'd need:
AP2 - Europe, Africa, Middle East
GP - General Planning
FIH - Flight Information Handbook

Just below that you'll see links for Enroute charts, click on Africa, and on that page there are 4 charts available for download, you need AFR 3.

The GP document gives general standard ICAO regulations and procedures for operating under VFR and IFR and defines the classes of airspace in Chapter 6 - ICAO Procedures.

Deviations from the standard ICAO procedures are then referenced from the AP2 document. So Chapter 2 will give the differences between ICAO procedures and African regional procedures in the Regional Procedures section, and then more specific differences between the ICAO, regional and the country procedures under Democratic Republic of the Congo country listing. There you'd find that altimeter settings are given in hectoPascals, e.g. 1013 hPa vice 29.92 inches, winds are given in magnetic, they use feet instead of meters for altitude, and nautical miles for distances (so even though the country may use kilometers for ground distances, the ATC guys would use miles and understand what that means, so the G500 shouldn't have to do the mental math and covert 1200 miles to 1900 kilometers - and same for the Cessna, but the Cessna probably would be forgiven for using the 20kms southeast), etc.

The FIH document gives specifics on how to do position reporting - domestic US, ICAO, and oceanic, in your specific novel application, the IATA Inflight Broadcast Procedure on VHF 126.90 within the African flight region.

So in the case of the Cessna 185 from Mangai Li, that aircraft would only make the IFBP (Inflight Broadcast Position) in the blind on 126.90 every 30 minutes until he got 80 miles from Kinshasa (which is about 40 minutes out), then he'd call Kinshasa Approach with a position report and his intentions (going to refuel at his base 20km southeast of the field) on 119.70 or 120.5, as he got closer Approach would hand the Cessna off to Kinshasa Tower on 118.10 and on the ground if the tower elects to hand him off to Ground on 121.90.

All of Kinshasa FIR and UIR airspace is class G, so the only ATC services provided is flight service and flight information. No separation is provided between any aircraft.

Kinshasa TMA airspace is class D, so they do provide separation, but that separation is based on what aircraft Kinshasa knows about and not by looking at a radar screen.

The G500, at 1200 miles out to the west would be talking to Dakar or Accra Oceanic on HF and should be squawking 2000 on the transponder and in addition to making its position reports to Oceanic as it crossed reporting points, it would also do the same IFBP on 126.90 in the blind every 30 minutes. As it got closer to the African coast it would be handed off to Brazzaville or Luanda also on HF on the any of the following frequencies 2878, 5493, 8903, 13294, and continue making the IFBP. Once the flight crossed the African coastline (about 200 miles out from Kinshasa) then they'd finally talk on a VHF frequency to either Luanda Control (118.6), Brazzaville Control above FL245 (121.1 or 118.7) or Kinshasa Control below FL245 (128.10) depending on where it crosses the African coast. When the flight is 150nm out of Kinshasa (about 20 minutes) and below FL145, it will contact Kinshasa Approach on 119.7 or 120.5 for its mandatory TMA crossing position report and intentions. Then handed off to Kinshasa Tower 118.10 and ground like the Cessna 185.

The most probable route of flight is crossing the coastline at Kitona Base VOR (KIT) following the H8F airway to Matadi NDB (MTI) where it makes the mandatory TMA crossing position report, then doing the arrival from the southwest on the H8 airway to BUNSI intersection and direct to Kinshasa VOR (KSA)

But if it's a covert G500 flight, then none of this applies  

Keep in mind even though the G500 is talking to ATC, ATC has no way of knowing where the aircraft really is as it has no radar. ATC only has information that the G500 gives them to work with. So the whole time the G500 can make bogus position reports and fly what ever it wants to get whereever it wants. ATC won't know any different, as long as the G500 makes its position reports at the right time with the right information. As long as everything appears in order, ATC won't be suspicious enough to DF the aircraft to attempt to find out where it really is.

Anyways hope this helps...

[Edited 2005-03-21 15:11:12]

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