Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
PipoA380
Topic Author
Posts: 1541
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 1:36 am

Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:06 pm

Hi guys,

I was reading an article about the A300 of AA that crashed in Nov. 2001 (AA587) and it sais:

"...because the A300 was designed with unusually sensitive rudder controls. Most aircraft require increased pressure on the rudder pedals to achieve the same amount of rudder control at a higher speed. Airbus aircraft use a fly-by-wire system in which the rudder's movement relative to rudder pedal pressure is regulated by computer to stay constant at different airspeeds"

To me this means that the A300 uses the fly-by-wire. But wasn't it only introduced later on, on the A320 in 1987?

Cheers and thanks!
 wave 
Philippe
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
 
User avatar
TripleDelta
Screener
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:13 am

The serial A300B4-600s had FBW installed back in 1983 (first flight of the prototype was on July 8th, 1983), along with an avionics update (FMS, EFIS) and a two-man cockpit (on a curious side note, the cockpit was designed by Porsche).

Originally, FBW was tested on the third A300 prototype (F-WUAD / F-BUAD) back in 1978, in support of the A300-600 and A320 programmes.

Source: Flightpath Vol 3
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
User avatar
PipoA380
Topic Author
Posts: 1541
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:38 am

Thanks Triple Delta! The AA pland that crashed was in that case equipped with the FBW and so the statement is correct?

Cheers
Philippe
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
 
User avatar
TripleDelta
Screener
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:21 am

As far as I know, and as far as I have seen while looking through the photo db, AA operates only the -605R series, so it's true.
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
Pihero
Posts: 4318
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:03 am

Hi, Guys !
I think you get the story wrong. The first Airbus with electrical flight control was the A-320. I agree the concept was demonstrated on an A-300 prototype back in late 1985 (I remember seen the demonstrator in Bristol in '86).

What Triple Delta was referring to is the FFCC -forward facing crew concept - which opened the way to a two-man crew on a wide body, as demanded by Garuda. The FFCC was later refined with the adjonction of CRT screens, which in turn led to the flight deck aspect as we now know.

As to the Porsche designed cockpit, it was also the 320.

The production 300s and 310s never were fitted with any form of FBW, although they already were equiped with a flight enveloppe protection.

Regards.
Contrail designer
 
User avatar
PipoA380
Topic Author
Posts: 1541
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:43 am

So my question is as follows. The text I quoted above is wrong? It was taken from the Wikipedia webpage..
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
 
User avatar
TripleDelta
Screener
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:00 am

Quoting Pihero (Reply 4):
What Triple Delta was referring to is the FFCC -forward facing crew concept - which opened the way to a two-man crew on a wide body, as demanded by Garuda. The FFCC was later refined with the adjonction of CRT screens, which in turn led to the flight deck aspect as we now know.

Actually, I wasn't referring to that specifically, just mentioned it as a side note to the improvements of the -600 series.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 4):
The production 300s and 310s never were fitted with any form of FBW, although they already were equiped with a flight enveloppe protection.

The A310 has FBW outer wing spoilers and the A306 FBW controls for secondary control surfaces (flaps, slats, spoilers) and brake-by-wire. The A320 was the first full FBW aircraft, however, fragments of it were introduced on the A300.

I admit however that my initial search was faulty. Upon going through this post:

American Airlines 587 A Closer Look

it appears that the A300 rudder is controlled by the autopilot yaw-damper when it is engaged, and that it is possible that the YD was errorenous.
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
Pihero
Posts: 4318
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:39 am

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 5):
So my question is as follows. The text I quoted above is wrong? It was taken from the Wikipedia webpage..

Yeah ! It's dead wrong.

Quoting TripleDelta (Reply 6):
The A310 has FBW outer wing spoilers and the A306 FBW controls for secondary control surfaces (flaps, slats, spoilers)

Apologies. That's right.

Quoting TripleDelta (Reply 6):
it appears that the A300 rudder is controlled by the autopilot yaw-damper when it is engaged, and that it is possible that the YD was errorenous.

The yaw damper can be working without the autopilot, as a flight stability device. The conditions depend of the aircraft model, i.e. flap config/speed...etc...
It was not a factor on the accident we refer to.

Regards
Contrail designer
 
eilennaei
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:41 am

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:55 am

At least the automatic alpha-floor protection that is thought of as an essential Airbus feature, started with the A300B4-203FF[CC]. There's been an incident at HEL [need to research into the date] where a Kar-Air crew in that a/c fought it after a go-around much like their more unfortunate colleagues in this A300-600 accident:

http://www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/publ.../DOCS/ComAndRep/Nagoya/nagoya.html

From the same source:
"On August 25 1994, the Bureau issued an airworthiness directive, TCD(TCD-4078-94, effective as of August 27 1994), ordering that, with regard to A300B4-220FF, A300B4-203FF and A300B2-203FF aircraft as well as A3 10 and A300-600 series aircraft, the flight operating manuals should be revised and the FCCs modification mentioned in the above paragraph (1)-(r) accomplished within 24 months in order to prevent an out-of-trim situation from arising from control wheel operation while the AP(s) engaged in CML) mode, which could create difficulties in controlling the aircraft.
This TCD complied with the airworthiness directive, CN(CN 94-185-165(B)) of DGAC.
Also, on February 2 1995, the Bureau issued TCD-4078-1-95 (a revision from the above-mentioned TCD), effective as of the same day, which required implementation of the changes included in the revision within seven days of the effective date of the TCD. This revision complied with the airworthiness directive AD(94-2 1-07) issued by Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) of the U.S.A. "
 
Pihero
Posts: 4318
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:20 am

And your point is........????????










Regards
Contrail designer
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:28 am

Quoting TripleDelta (Reply 6):
The A320 was the first full FBW aircraft, however, fragments of it were introduced on the A300.

Don't forget the A300 FBW concept demonstrator. Though it did have full mechanical reversion and the f/o's controls were conventional.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sharkey



[Edited 2005-09-27 01:29:42]
Your bone's got a little machine
 
User avatar
TripleDelta
Screener
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:47 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 10):
Don't forget the A300 FBW concept demonstrator. Though it did have full mechanical reversion and the f/o's controls were conventional.

Yes, I mentioned it above:

Quoting TripleDelta (Reply 1):
Originally, FBW was tested on the third A300 prototype (F-WUAD / F-BUAD) back in 1978, in support of the A300-600 and A320 programmes.

The FBW demonstrator, which originally had standard yoke controls on both sides, was in the early 80s also used to test the side-stick for the upcoming A320. The side-stick was in the left seat, while the copilot retained the normal yoke. According to the magazine, the side-stick gave a weight saving od 20 kg, not to mention more breathing space.
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
NASOCEANA
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:40 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:24 pm

Quoting PipoA380 (Thread starter):
I was reading an article about the A300 of AA that crashed in Nov. 2001 (AA587)

This site may give you some insite into the flight. It also has video of the actually flight AA 587 prior to take off, and the reenachment of the flight by the NTSB.

http://www.ntsb.gov/events/2001/AA587/anim_587.htm
B777 greatest Airliner ever built!
 
eilennaei
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:41 am

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:16 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 9):
And your point is........????????

Should you mean my point, it was the fact that the first production Airbus a/c with an alpha floor protection was a FFCC A300-200 series a/c. The reference and proof were included in my post. I wanted to be precise as I believe this forum tends to appreciate credible references.
Envelope protection alone does not entail a FBW system as far as I know, but is often associated with the overall concept of the FBW system all the same. If I'm not terribly mistaken, there were digital computers taking over the manual controls in the cases indicated, although the control actuators were conventionally analogue. I regret if there was any duplication over your post.

[Edited 2005-09-27 11:18:37]
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:04 am

Quoting TripleDelta (Reply 6):
The A310 has FBW outer wing spoilers and the A306 FBW controls for secondary control surfaces (flaps, slats, spoilers) and brake-by-wire. The A320 was the first full FBW aircraft, however, fragments of it were introduced on the A300.

The A306 & A310 have FBW spoilers & Flap/Slats

Quoting TripleDelta (Reply 6):
A300 rudder is controlled by the autopilot yaw-damper when it is engaged, and that it is possible that the YD was errorenous.

Nothing was erroroneous apart from the pilots control inputs, exacerbated by the low level of feel as designed by Airbus.
 
User avatar
TripleDelta
Screener
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:45 am

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 14):
Nothing was erroroneous apart from the pilots control inputs, exacerbated by the low level of feel as designed by Airbus.

I stand corrected. So in the end, the accident was in a bigger part a design issue, compounded by pilot error? I'm trying to get my facts straight... Big grin

[Edited 2005-09-27 21:47:30]
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 20751
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:56 am

Quoting TripleDelta (Reply 15):
Quoting VC-10 (Reply 14):
Nothing was erroroneous apart from the pilots control inputs, exacerbated by the low level of feel as designed by Airbus.

I stand corrected. So in the end, the accident was in a bigger part a design issue, compounded by pilot error?

The other way around. It was mainly pilot error, compounded by a design peculiarity. Add into the mix bad training, and you had a recipe for disaster.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
D5DBY
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:38 am

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:48 am

I was thinking about this A300...after this crash, have there been any changes made to the ruder or how you control the ruder?

or perhaps no changes at all have been made to this AC model?

why not a little device or something that prevents the pilot to "swing" the rudder from left to right?
 
User avatar
TripleDelta
Screener
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:16 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 16):
The other way around. It was mainly pilot error, compounded by a design peculiarity. Add into the mix bad training, and you had a recipe for disaster.

Ah, I get it, thanks  bigthumbsup .
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16310
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:44 pm

The A300 rudder is relatively powerful because it is large, about 34% of the total fin chord. Rudder effectiveness also washes out with increasing sideslip, and this affects the critical anti-slip rudder more than pro-slip rudder. The A300 rudder has ±30 degrees of authority at speeds below 165 KIAS, and the limiter progressively cuts this back to 3.5 degrees at maximum speed. It may be tempting to further limit the rudder at higher speeds, but it needs enough authority to handle engine failure with some margin, and serve as a yaw damper. There also are unusual conditions such as multiple leading edge flap failure that may require a large amount of rudder to counteract.

Given the limited amount of FDR data released by the NTSB it is not clear if forces in the rudder exceeded ultimate loads, but the high sideslip and rapid full rudder motions are ripe for this possibility. The exact motions may never be known because the FDR only measured the rudder twice per second, while it can move at 39 deg/s the rudder could go from neutral to the stop and back between samples. And as the NTSB has stated fast rudder motions were distorted by being filtered.

Flight 587 flight data recorder (FDR) shows three lateral accelerations of 0.3g and 0.4g right, and 0.4g left, in the approximately 7 seconds before it appears that the fin came off. Analysis show that the aircraft may have been in a full slip to produce the high accelerations. During the same period the FDR shows the rudder making about five deflections of 5 to 10-11 degrees, culminating in a rudder reversal immediately before the fin apparently came off. The 10-11-degree deflection is the maximum allowed by the A300's rudder limiter at that airspeed, suggesting it was working correctly.

The FARs paragraph 25.351 covers yaw manoeuvre conditions, and 25.341 covers gust and turbulence loads.

Paragraph 25.351 spells out a simple manoeuvre and requires that the manufacturer analyse the loads at four conditions. The manoeuvre is to:

Fly straight and level, and step on the rudder pedal with a large force (condition A),

Maintain rudder and let the aircraft swing to a peak sideslip angle that is beyond equilibrium slip due to fuselage momentum (condition B),

Maintain rudder and let the aircraft swing back to equilibrium sideslip (condition C), and

Neutralize the rudder while at equilibrium sideslip (condition D).

The rational for these design requirements is that each condition tends to load different parts of the fin, such as the front spar, rear spar, hinges, rudder, etc., but condition D can create the highest fin bending loads, as far as the regulations are concerned.

Ultimate loads as per FAR 25, only needs to be tolerated for 3 seconds (not 7 seconds) and can result in permanent deformation. There is no requirement on what the strength must be after surviving ultimate load.

No rudder should be used at all in-flight with jet transports unless a failure condition exists, or for a crosswind landing. Apparently AA used to tech pilots recovery techniques that the former military instructors used flying military fighter aircraft. Civil aircraft are designed to the same limits as military aircraft.

To see what is safe, IFALPA put out two safety bulletins
http://www.ifalpa.org/sab/03SAB002_Use%20of%20Rudder%20on%20Airbus.pdf
http://www.ifalpa.org/sab/03SAB001_Use%20of%20Rudder%20on%20Boeing.pdf

The Boeing one also addresses some concerns pilots had about composite rudders after AA587, as the 777 rudder is also composite.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
User avatar
PipoA380
Topic Author
Posts: 1541
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:24 pm

Thanks mates, big debates going on around here. I don't get much of what you're saying, Tech is not really my domain, but I had an answer, Cheers!

Regards,
Philippe
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
 
User avatar
Jetlagged
Posts: 2564
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:00 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:36 pm

AFAIK, all A300B4s have a kind of alpha floor protection, in that when the stall warning goes off, the throttles automatically advance to go-around power (whether A/T is engaged or not). This can be overidden by the pilot.

This may be true of A300B2s as well, but I'm less familiar with them.

This is not the same as the full protection offered by a permanently engaged FBW flight control system, and I doubt the A300B4 FFCC had anything like that.

The issue of pilots fighting the A310 and A300-600 apparent auto go-around incidents on approach was due to the speed protection system in the autopilot taking precedence over pitch control, so if speed increased too much, the aircraft would pitch up to compensate. The pilots instinctively fought this tendency, rather that disconnecting the AP or correcting the airspeed. This undesirable effect was addressed by an autopilot control law update.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:27 am

As far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong), all Airbus models before the A340NG still had mechanically-controlled rudders. So the A340NG and the A380 are the first ones to have really full FBW...
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16310
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:59 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):
(please correct me if I'm wrong), all Airbus models before the A340NG still had mechanically-controlled rudders. So the A340NG and the A380 are the first ones to have really full FBW...

That is incorrect. They have manual reversion which includes linkage to the rudder hydraulics.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
User avatar
Jetlagged
Posts: 2564
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:00 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:10 am

I can't find any reference on the Airbus website to the A340NG. Is this their new secret weapon  Smile
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 30172
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:06 pm

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 24):

Am I right to say that A340NG is the A340-500/600.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
User avatar
Jetlagged
Posts: 2564
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:00 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:32 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 25):
Am I right to say that A340NG is the A340-500/600

That's what it refers to. It seems to be a shorthand form used by some on A.net, but is not an official Airbus designation.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:34 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 23):
That is incorrect. They have manual reversion which includes linkage to the rudder hydraulics.

As far as I'm aware that was only true up to the A340-200/300... And it would be entirely useless for the A380. I don't see any human being kicking a rudder that size without servo support. A mechanical reversion mechanism would just be useless dead weight.

I've found a very interesting article that goes into exactly the right level of detail here:

FBW Evolutions by Fernando Alonso:

The relevant sections:

2.2. A340-600/-500 rudder control description

[...]

In order to retain the concept of a mechanical linkage for Back-Up rudder control, a clutch would need to be developed. In normal operation, when the rudder is controlled (electrically) by the EFCS computers, the mechanical linkage should be de-clutched to eliminate degrading the performance of the electrical rudder control. In case of rudder Back-Up, this new unit would connect the rudder pedals to the rudder servo controls (thus re-establishing the mechanical pedal-rudder linkage). This solution would introduce additional and new failure cases (undue clutch operation, jamming ...) which would potentially deteriorate the availability of the "mechanical Back-Up rudder control" relative to that of the A340-300/-200.

To avoid this deterioration of the reliability and safety of the rudder Back-Up control it was decided to replace the "mechanical" Back-Up control by an electrical alternate rudder control, with sufficient "autonomy" "segregation" and "dissimilarity" relative to the normal control such as to provide equivalent "Back-Up" capability.

The schematic of the A340-600/-500 Rudder Control is shown in the following figure.




as compared to the A340-300/-200 rudder control:

http://www.pilotosdeiberia.com/images/tecn/airbus_sfo/23fbw_evol/23fbw_7.gif


So it does indeed seem as if the A340-500/600 and the A380 are the first Airbus models with full FBW control.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16310
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:36 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 27):
As far as I'm aware that was only true up to the A340-200/300... And it would be entirely useless for the A380.

Klaus,

Your 100% correct, just looked it up in the 343/346 FCOM, I hadnt picked up on that. What I had said was incorrect for the A340-600.



A340-300



A340-600



Combined schematic A340-300/600

Thanks  bigthumbsup 
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:22 am

Just splitting hairs with borrowed tools here... Big grin
 
User avatar
Jetlagged
Posts: 2564
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:00 pm

RE: Fly-by-wire. Also On A300?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:48 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 27):
And it would be entirely useless for the A380. I don't see any human being kicking a rudder that size without servo support.

I don't think you'd have much luck moving an A340-200/300 rudder manually either. The mechanical linkage is to a hydraulic servo. Lose the hyds and you lose the rudder.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dalmd88 and 19 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos