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Claude
Topic Author
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:50 pm

Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:31 am

Hi everyone!
I was wondering if Embraers,Bombardiers,Boeings,Cessnas models have RAM...?
(i know All models of Airbuses have.)
 
planesailing
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:57 am

RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:37 am

Search Ram Air Turbine on the photos search page.

MD-11, 767, Canadair RJ's seem to have them.
 
michaeljp
Posts: 180
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:38 am

I cant be certain so dont quote me on this but I do remember hearing one time its compulsary to have.
Once again I'm not 100% sure on this though.

Mike
 
typhaerion
Posts: 425
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:39 am

I know all Boeing Aircraft have them...
 
Claude
Topic Author
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:40 am

thanks for your answer Planesailing!
 
Claude
Topic Author
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:41 am

Thanks for your answer Typhaerion!
 
FI642
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:47 am

The MD11's is called an "ADG" Air Driven Generator.
 
N1120A
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:47 am

Quoting MichaelJP (Reply 2):
I cant be certain so dont quote me on this but I do remember hearing one time its compulsary to have.
Once again I'm not 100% sure on this though.

No, it isn't

Quoting Typhaerion (Reply 3):
I know all Boeing Aircraft have them...

The most popular Boeing aircraft of all time, the 737, does not carry a RAT
 
Claude
Topic Author
Posts: 52
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:51 am

no RAT on 737 ... wow...
that's surprising!
thanks for your post N1120A!
 
Claude
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:52 am

Thanks for your answer FI642!
 
typhaerion
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:53 am

Wow, whoops. Thats what I get for assuming and not cross checking to AIPC.

Our 757s and L1011s have them, so I assumed our 737s did too. And if they did, I figured all did.

Thank you for correcting me. I would hate for bad information to get out.
 
a/c dxer
Posts: 415
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2001 10:52 pm

RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:55 am

Quoting Typhaerion (Reply 3):
I know all Boeing Aircraft have them...

Not all the 757's have them either.
 
N1120A
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting Claude (Reply 8):
no RAT on 737 ... wow...
that's surprising!
thanks for your post N1120A!

The 737 is not particularly reliant on electricity. While manipulating the yoke would be more difficult, it would still be perfectly able to fly. The A32S on the other hand does have a RAT because of the reliance on electricity

Quoting Typhaerion (Reply 10):
Thank you for correcting me. I would hate for bad information to get out.

No problem, that is what we are here for
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 21266
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:58 am

Quoting Typhaerion (Reply 3):
I know all Boeing Aircraft have them...

747s do not have RATs. Windmilling engines provide enough for power and hydraulics in case of all engine failure.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):

The most popular Boeing aircraft of all time, the 737, does not carry a RAT

The reason that the 32x has a RAT and teh 737 does not is because of the mechanical linkages on the 737. You simply need less power to control the 737. If you don't have enough power/hydraulics on the 32x there is no way to move most of the control surfaces.

[Edited 2005-10-20 18:59:49]
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:59 am

Quoting Claude (Reply 8):
no RAT on 737 ... wow...
that's surprising!

With Three Hydraulic Isolated systems & Manual reversion.Its not needed.
regds
MEL
 
Claude
Topic Author
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:40 am

"The 737 is not particularly reliant on electricity" that's it!
Thanks N1120A
Anyone for informations for the Embraers models?
 
jetfixer
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2000 9:20 am

RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:54 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
The 737 is not particularly reliant on electricity. While manipulating the yoke would be more difficult, it would still be perfectly able to fly. The A32S on the other hand does have a RAT because of the reliance on electricity

Not entirely true. If the A320 loses of all 3 Hyd system pressures, you're probably not gonna make it.
 
N1120A
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:59 am

Quoting Claude (Reply 15):
Anyone for informations for the Embraers models?

I would assume that all the new E-jets (E170-195) have RATs because they are Fly by wire
 
OldAeroGuy
Posts: 3928
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:50 am

RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:05 am

Quoting A/c dxer (Reply 11):
Not all the 757's have them either.

Every 757 has a RAT to provide hydraulic power to the Center hydraulic system in the event of a dual engine failure. The 737 doesn't need a RAT as the primary flight controls have manual reversion and can be moved with pilot yoke input only.
 
Airmech56
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:03 pm

RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:13 am

What about the 27?

I must write useless sentence so that my question of of little value(according to forum rules) is displayed.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:36 am

CRJ-100/200s (as well as the Global Express) do have RATs (Ram Air Turbines).

The Cessna Citation does not have a RAT as far as I know. I don't know of any other Cessna products that would have RATs.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:15 am

Quoting Jetfixer (Reply 16):
Not entirely true. If the A320 loses of all 3 Hyd system pressures, you're probably not gonna make it.

Sure, and that's why it has a RAT. To ensure that there is pressure despite the engine generators being online.
 
LongbowPilot
Posts: 526
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:56 pm

I smell a RAT! Damn, I hate it when that happens.
 
jetfixer
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2000 9:20 am

RE: Ram Air Turbine

Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:33 am

Quoting Jetfixer (Reply 16):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
The 737 is not particularly reliant on electricity. While manipulating the yoke would be more difficult, it would still be perfectly able to fly. The A32S on the other hand does have a RAT because of the reliance on electricity

[quote=Starlionblue,reply=21]Quoting Jetfixer (Reply 16):
Not entirely true. If the A320 loses of all 3 Hyd system pressures, you're probably not gonna make it.

Sure, and that's why it has a RAT. To ensure that there is pressure despite the engine generators being online.

Starlionblue,

I suggest you read the above quotes again, N1120A makes it sound like the A320 has a RAT because or its reliance on electricity. I'll say again, not entirely true. The RAT pressurizes the BLUE hydraulic system. From pressure in the blue system an emergency generator can be driven. The A320 RAT does not directly supply power. The Airbus can fly without power, but will not fly without Hydraulics, hence the A320 RAT's primary purpose is hydraulic.
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2578
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Ram Air Turbine

Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:54 am

Quoting Airmech56 (Reply 19):
What about the 27?

If you mean a 727, no it does not have one.

No one mentioned the DC-10. It has an ADG.
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 30184
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Sat Oct 22, 2005 1:54 pm

Quoting Jetfixer (Reply 23):
The Airbus can fly without power, but will not fly without Hydraulics, hence the A320 RAT's primary purpose is hydraulic

Lets put it this way.With no Manual reversion available like the B737.The A320 being FBW needs a RAT.
regds
MEL
 
KBGRbillT
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:15 am

RE: Ram Air Turbine

Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:12 pm

Quoting FI642 (Reply 6):
The MD11's is called an "ADG" Air Driven Generator.

Same on the DC-10-30 series as well.
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 21266
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Ram Air Turbine

Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:00 pm

Quoting Jetfixer (Reply 23):
Quoting Jetfixer (Reply 16):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
The 737 is not particularly reliant on electricity. While manipulating the yoke would be more difficult, it would still be perfectly able to fly. The A32S on the other hand does have a RAT because of the reliance on electricity

[quote=Starlionblue,reply=21]Quoting Jetfixer (Reply 16):
Not entirely true. If the A320 loses of all 3 Hyd system pressures, you're probably not gonna make it.

Sure, and that's why it has a RAT. To ensure that there is pressure despite the engine generators being online.

Starlionblue,

I suggest you read the above quotes again, N1120A makes it sound like the A320 has a RAT because or its reliance on electricity. I'll say again, not entirely true. The RAT pressurizes the BLUE hydraulic system. From pressure in the blue system an emergency generator can be driven. The A320 RAT does not directly supply power. The Airbus can fly without power, but will not fly without Hydraulics, hence the A320 RAT's primary purpose is hydraulic.

Ok thx for the clarification. But the fact remains that the RAT spins and somewhere electricity is produced for something  Wink But you are quite right that hydraulics drive the surfaces, not electrics.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:03 pm

Does the B744 have a RAT.
regds
MEL
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2578
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Ram Air Turbine

Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:37 pm

Quoting Typhaerion (Reply 3):
I know all Boeing Aircraft have them...

One must be very very careful when saying ALL have them. The 727 did not have a RAT.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 29):
One must be very very careful when saying ALL have them. The 727 did not have a RAT.

Add the B737 to that list  Smile
regds
MEL
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 21266
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:10 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 28):
Does the B744 have a RAT.

Nope. The windmilling of even one engine is enough to provide hydraulics and electrics.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:16 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 31):
Nope. The windmilling of even one engine is enough to provide hydraulics and electrics

What stops a Windmilling Engine on other type Aircraft providing Hydraulics & Electrics.
regds
MEL
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:53 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 31):
Nope. The windmilling of even one engine is enough to provide hydraulics and electrics.

Some hydraulics yes (enough for flight controls at least), but not enough rpm to get the generator on line. However, you have three other engines with generators and an APU with two as backup. In the event of a four engine flameout, there's the DC battery and inverter running the standby busses.
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2845
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:01 pm

Citations don't have RATs, their control surfaces are cable actuated. 172s, however, have been known to revert to RAT status when the pilot doesn't have enough fuel to get where he's going. As far as Embraer, the 170/190s have them, as mentioned but the 135/145s do not.
 
474218
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:02 pm

L-1011 Ram Air Turbine (RAT) provides hydraulic power in the event of three engine failure. Standby battery provides electrical power. Battery can also be used to start APU.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:29 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 32):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 31):
Nope. The windmilling of even one engine is enough to provide hydraulics and electrics

What stops a Windmilling Engine on other type Aircraft providing Hydraulics & Electrics.

Well, as Jetlagged kindly corrected, other planes don't have 4 huge engines like the 747.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:20 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 36):
, as Jetlagged kindly corrected, other planes don't have 4 huge engines like the 747.

Does the A340 have a RAT.
regds
MEL
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Ram Air Turbine

Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:37 pm

All commercial aircraft either have a RAT or enough battery power to safely land the plane. I think the ruling is that a manufacture can omit the RAT, but must provide enough battery power to run the aircraft emergency back-up systems for 'x' amount of time. That is why larger commercial aircraft use RAT's as the weight of the batteries would be huge. The Embraer 135/140/145 do not have RAT's, but the Embraer 170/175/190/195 do.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Ram Air Turbine

Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:10 am

Quoting Typhaerion (Reply 3):
I know all Boeing Aircraft have them...

* * *


Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
The most popular Boeing aircraft of all time, the 737, does not carry a RAT



Quoting A/c dxer (Reply 11):
Not all the 757's have them either.



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 13):
747s do not have RATs. Windmilling engines provide enough for power and hydraulics in case of all engine failure.



Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 24):
If you mean a 727, no it does not have one.

So, production numbers being as they are, I guess it is safe to say most Boeing aircraft don't have a RAT.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:52 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 39):

So, production numbers being as they are, I guess it is safe to say most Boeing aircraft don't have a RAT.

... he said while smugly grinning Big grin

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 37):
Does the A340 have a RAT.

Good question actually. Pity I don't know... But considering 330/340 commonality they might just have left it in there.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:26 am

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 33):
However, you have three other engines with generators and an APU with two as backup.

Sounds good but the B747 APU will not start in flight.

The Vickers VC10 had two RATs. One electric and one hydraulic.
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:12 am

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 41):
Sounds good but the B747 APU will not start in flight.

Yes it will, but probably not at cruise altitude after a cold soak. If I was in an emergency situtation I'd certainly try and start it. It may not be certified for in flight use, but there is no system logic preventing it being started.

[Edited 2005-11-22 22:19:02]
 
IFIXCF6
Posts: 107
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:44 am

Quote:
Yes it will, but probably not at cruise altitude after a cold soak. If I was in an emergency situtation I'd certainly try and start it. It may not be certified for in flight use, but there is no system logic preventing it being started.

Not on a 744. One of the common mistakes of new technicians is to have the scissors (nose steering links) disconnected, placing the aircraft in the "air", and wondering why the APU won't start.

Mike
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Ram Air Turbine

Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:13 pm

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 41):
The Vickers VC10 had two RATs. One electric and one hydraulic.

Considering the Time it was flying not Surprisingly.Now both can be Incorporated into one RAT indirectly.

Quoting IFIXCF6 (Reply 43):
Not on a 744. One of the common mistakes of new technicians is to have the scissors (nose steering links) disconnected, placing the aircraft in the "air", and wondering why the APU won't start.

Does the B747 not take MLG Air-Grd Sense too.
regds
MEL

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