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HAWK21M
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Deicing Dangers To Personell

Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:27 pm

What are the Dangers to Personell involved in Aircraft Deicing.
Any Precautions to Avoid Inhaling the Fluid vapours & burns.
Are there Medicals for the Staff.
regds
MEL
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Ryan h
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:35 pm

I would also expect that dealing with ice and de icing fluid would be a slippery job.
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TheSorcerer
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:53 am

What exactly is sprayed onto the A/C?

thanks

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HAWK21M
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:12 am

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 2):
What exactly is sprayed onto the A/C

Mainly Glycol But,Some fluids contain methylbenzotriazole [MeBT] or tolyltriazole.mainly used to prevent corrosion which can be Health hazards over prolong exposure.
Out here We never use Deicing Fluids because the OAT is always above Freezing.In the North it can reach Freezing during Winter,But the Airportsd arn't many out there where snow occurs.
regds
MEL
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scarebus03
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:30 am

Hawk

when de-icing the most important for me is communication between the driver and the man in the basket doing the de-icing. The fluid stinks and gets everywhere as you are constantly in a cloud of the stuff. The best way is to try and stay upwind so the fluid overspray goes downwind. Make sure you have warm clothes a good hat and HEAVY SOCKS!! A safety harness for the basket is necessary also. De-icing fluid in general is considered non hazardous try this link for the material safety data.

http://www.aerochem.se/products.htm

Best regards

SB03
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futureuapilot
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Fri Nov 25, 2005 3:16 am

When we de-ice private jets at ATW we just use a little tank attached to our tractor. As SB03 said you always have to stay upwind from the stuff. Our's is kept hot, so should you get directly sprayed with it it could easily burn your skin.

-Sam
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HAWK21M
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Fri Nov 25, 2005 3:29 am

Quoting FutureUApilot (Reply 5):
Our's is kept hot, so should you get directly sprayed with it it could easily burn your skin.

What Temperature.

Quoting Scarebus03 (Reply 4):

Thanks for the link.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
futureuapilot
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Fri Nov 25, 2005 3:54 am

To tell you the truth, I'm not sure, but if you put your bare hands on the tank it gets too hot to withstand. I'll check next time I'm working for ya.

-Sam
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MissedApproach
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:48 am

Our fluid is heated as well, but I'm not sure how hot. Our guys used to de-ice in rubber suits, goggles & respirators, so maybe we're using a different fluid than most of you are. A few years ago we got a couple of new FMC de-cing trucks with an enclosed, heated (& air-conditioned) cab on the boom, so it's not as much of an issue anymore.

Quoting Scarebus03 (Reply 4):
communication between the driver and the man in the basket

Communication is important for everyone else too, & a breakdown in communication killed these guys at YMX 10 years ago:
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/air/1995/a95q0015/a95q0015.asp
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Starlionblue
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:54 am

Quoting Scarebus03 (Reply 4):
when de-icing the most important for me is communication between the driver and the man in the basket doing the de-icing.

Unless they are the same person. At ARN I've seen the driver get out of the cab, get into the basket and drive from there.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
wagz
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:16 am

We had a de-icing boom operator killed at PHL last winter. We have I believe 8 de-icing booms permantly set up on a remote ramp (no trucks or anything like that). While de-icing a US A330, the hydraulics in the boom failed and it crashed down in to the wing of the A330. The operator suffered back injuries from what I heard and later died. The wing of the A330 received a nasty gash and was out of service for a couple of weeks.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:39 pm

Quoting Wagz (Reply 10):
While de-icing a US A330, the hydraulics in the boom failed and it crashed down in to the wing of the A330.

Wasn't there a Hydraulic Ram Lock in place.

Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 8):
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/air/1995/a95q0015/a95q0015.asp

Isn't there a Mx personnell to give the "Thumbs up" Sign.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
charliecossie
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:11 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):
Isn't there a Mx personnel to give the "Thumbs up" Sign.

You really think a mechanics' thumb would have fixed this massive f**k up?

"The Board determined that the flight crew started to taxi the aircraft before its perimeter was clear, following confusion in the radio communications. The following factors contributed to the accident: a lack of de-icing procedures within Royal Air Maroc; non-compliance with procedures on the part of the Canadian Airlines International Ltd. de-icing crew; inadequate or inappropriate communications equipment; incomplete training of Snowman 1 (the chief de-icing attendant); a regulatory framework less demanding of foreign air carriers than of Canadian carriers; a lack of operational supervision; and a lack of adherence to radio protocol."
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:45 pm

Quoting Charliecossie (Reply 12):

But how is it out there.Unfortunately/Fortunately out here we don't have Deicing.
Generally Prior to Aircraft Taxing out.Isn't Mx & ATC Clearence required.Understandably they did not adhere to procedures.But what is the normal procedure.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
707guy
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:54 pm

Type 1 de-icing fluid must be heated to at least 140 degrees F.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:02 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
Unless they are the same person. At ARN I've seen the driver get out of the cab, get into the basket and drive from there.

We tried a truck at ARN which was driven from the cab. It was operated by Nordic Aero for one season. But it was too slow and was sent somewhere else. So all the trucks are now two man operated. Usually on a B737 size aircraft we have one truck, but on the B777 size usually two, but in heavy snow we need three to get it done in time.

There are more ways of deicing than there are airports. At ARN T4 and T5 the deicing is done on the gate before pushback. At T2 the aircraft pushes back, then deices, then starts it engines. When using Runway 01R/19L for departure then the deicing is carried out at the deicing pad. This is only used between 2300 and 0700 departures.

With no precipitation we use Type 1 fluid diluted to about 50% and stored in the truck at 80degC. If there is precipitation then AFTER the type ! is applied we apply 100% Type 11 fluid COLD. This will give about 40mins holdover time in steady snow.

Two years ago we used Type 4 fluid, but after two years went back to type 11. Type 4 was difficult to apply evenly on the wings. It came out in blotches and would not produce the even coat that Type 11 does.

Deicing an aircraft takes about 2-5 mins with just frost, but after a night of heavy snow it can take up to an HOUR to deice an aircraft.

In a heavy snowstorm I remember once deicing a CX B744 with two trucks and we were not winning. When they had finished they had to start again. So we ended up with four trucks deicing at the same time.
 
scarebus03
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:52 pm

We normally used a type II 75/25 fluid/water mixture heated to 80 deg.c. You need to have the chart for the holdover times depending on temp. and type of weather conditions i.e. sleet, snow, frost etc.

remember COMMUNICATION!! is the most important.

Brgds


SB03
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Buzz
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:25 pm

Hi Hawk21M, Buzz here. We don't get a lot of snow here at KPDX, but we do get some freezing rain and the entire upwind side of the airplane (as well as anything outside) gets covered with a layer of ice.
Last winter i was blown off my feet in gusty winds (under the airplane, wind tunnel effect), landed on the ice covered ramp. Slight concussion, i was well padded as it was cold outside. That's one hazard that i hadn't encountered before.
Our deice trucks here heat the type 1 fluid to 180 degrees (fahrenheit) and it's likely to still be 150 degrees when it leaves the nozzle. We also apply type 4 fluid for longer hold over time, but that's not heated.
Sometimes you can't keep the aircraft clean of snow / freezing rain. So everybody leaves the airplane, load up again after the stuff stops falling from the sky. Besides, if it's that slippery outside the pilots can't get from the hotel to the airport, passengers can't get to the airport either. Nothing goes on time.
g'nite
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:26 pm

Is there a seperate Department carring out this Deicing or Is a Part of the Mx dept staff.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
DC8FriendShip
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:45 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
Quoting FutureUApilot (Reply 5):
Our's is kept hot, so should you get directly sprayed with it it could easily burn your skin.

What Temperature



Quoting 707guy (Reply 14):
Type 1 de-icing fluid must be heated to at least 140 degrees F.

It should be between 140 and 180F.

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 15):
Usually on a B737 size aircraft we have one truck, but on the B777 size usually two, but in heavy snow we need three to get it done in time.

We also use just one on a 737, but in the hubs (i.e. DEN) we use four trucks per plane. The turnaround is really quick on the pad that way.

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 15):
Two years ago we used Type 4 fluid, but after two years went back to type 11.

Don't get that confused, its not type 11, its type 2 (II)

Quoting Scarebus03 (Reply 16):
We normally used a type II 75/25 fluid/water mixture heated to 80 deg.c. You need to have the chart for the holdover times depending on temp. and type of weather conditions i.e. sleet, snow, frost etc.

Why do you mix type II? are you sure it's not type I? Please explain.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 18):
Is there a seperate Department carring out this Deicing or Is a Part of the Mx dept staff.

Generally de-icing is a ramp function. It depends on the location as to whether it is separate from normal Ops.
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pogo
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:19 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 18):
Is there a seperate Department carring out this Deicing or Is a Part of the Mx dept staff.

De-icing is a ramp function at LHR with a select few trained to do so.

As well as communication, my colleagues use heat protective gloves, the metal connection between hose and gun gets really hot.

Quoting Scarebus03 (Reply 16):
We normally used a type II 75/25 fluid/water mixture heated to 80 deg.c.



Quoting Dc8friendship (Reply 19):
Why do you mix type II? are you sure it's not type I? Please explain.

I presume the mix Scarebus03 is talking about is called 'Kilfrost ABC3 type II', at least that is what I remember it being called when I used to de-ice.
Since I have been working on the ramp I have never known there to be a type I, unless it is an old type.

Does everybody use this make/type of mix or are there more than one?
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DC8FriendShip
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:42 pm

Type I (or 1) is used extensively as a De-ice fluid, at least here in the states. It is Orange, with no thickener. We only use type II and IV as anti-ice fluid.
Our type I is UCAR ADF and our type IV is Kilfrost ABC-S.
What designations are your fluids?
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Tristarsteve
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:08 am

Quoting Dc8friendship (Reply 19):
Why do you mix type II? are you sure it's not type I? Please explain

To simplify matters at LHR, BA uses a mixed type 2 fluid for deicing and anticing. It means that all the fluid in the truck is premixed at 75/25 and is sprayed on in one operation. It works well at LHR where the temp is usually arouns zero with wet snow. It is wasteful of fluid at lower temps.
 
pogo
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:44 am

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 22):
To simplify matters at LHR, BA uses a mixed type 2 fluid for deicing and anticing. It means that all the fluid in the truck is premixed at 75/25 and is sprayed on in one operation. It works well at LHR where the temp is usually arouns zero with wet snow. It is wasteful of fluid at lower temps

As far as I am aware, all de-icing operators at LHR use the type II fluid at a 75/25 mix, but this mix can be changed accordingly.
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futureuapilot
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:51 am

I checked at work, our de-icing fluid was heated to around 150 F. Just an interesting little bit of information, at ATW the FBO I work at fuels the airliners. We were called to fuel Comair, but for some reason our line guy forgot. To make a long story short, we had a deicing truck with the little basket on a boom drive up to the building and a Comair employee comes in to display her *feelings* twards our FBO at that moment. I just stood there sense I couldn't go and fuel them, so I kinda slid back to a window to watch the passing airliners. I took a look at the deicing truck and noticed there was a guy in the basket on the tip of the boom. The Comair employee got back in her truck and spead off with the guy still in the basket. I bet that was a cold ride back to their gate...

-Sam
The Pilot is the highest form of life on Earth!
 
scarebus03
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:26 am

Pogo,

Bang on the money! Kilfrost ABC type 2. Dc8friendship the mix could be changed to 100% fluid if the weather was colder than normal. All depended on what the de-icing manual required. I now work in BCN and am hopeing de-icing for me is a thing of the past!

Brgds

SB03  biggrin 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:33 pm

Quoting FutureUApilot (Reply 24):
The Comair employee got back in her truck and spead off with the guy still in the basket.

Presumingly the Basket was lowered  Smile

Quoting Scarebus03 (Reply 25):
All depended on what the de-icing manual required

What decides the Fluid type used.I've noticed people talking about Type I & II mainly.
How many types are there & who decides on what basis what type should be used.Do the colours of the Fluid type vary.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:11 pm

The best deicing trucks I've seen so far are the Danish manufactured Elephant Beta and Gamma, with an enclosed operator's cabin at the end of the boom and a remote controlled spray nozzle at the end of a telescopic boom. The spray operator sits comfortably inside a heated cabin with full view on what he is doing and is neither exposed to cold nor the fumes.

Jan
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scarebus03
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:50 pm

Hawk,

Quoting DC8FriendShip (Reply 21):
Type I (or 1) is used extensively as a De-ice fluid, at least here in the states. It is Orange, with no thickener. We only use type II and IV as anti-ice fluid.

As far as I remember the other colour was a sickly green for the kilfrost. The important thing about type 2/4 fluid is the holding time depending on the weather. If it was 0.c we could spray the mix and get maybe 3-4hrs holdover time per A/C thus allowing us to de-ice the whole fleet well in advance of the first flight. If the weather got worse the holding times would decrease and we would have to change the mix to get the maximum holding time and prevent delays. All of this of course was subject to a pdi by the mechs and flightcrews. Also the mix ratio and temp was crucial to maintain the chemical composition of the fluid. We checked the viscosity of the fluid in each rig before we used it with a refractometer and periodically by law we sent fluid samples to laboratories to check the chemical composition of each batch of fluid and to check the rigs for contamination,

hope this helps

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 13):
Unfortunately/Fortunately out here we don't have Deicing

In DUB the Mx staff did the de-icing so I would argue fortunately!!

Brgds

SB03


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Buzz
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:12 pm

Hi Hawk21M, Buzz here. It's been a busy few nights at work - over here there's a holiday called Thanksgiving and there's a lot of flying and driving as families try to get together.

At UAL, de-icing airplanes is a ramp service function. They do all the routine de-ice stuff. But when somebody else calls for a de-ice, mechanics handle it. Tonight we defrosted a Beech 1900 belonging to Ameriflight. Maybe they trust us to think on our feet.

Type 1 fluid is essentially heated automotive antifreeze. We use it to melt off the frost / ice/ snow. It's pumped at high pressure, like a fire hose, and we adjust the nozzle to sweep the snow off, or melt a hole in the ice and flake off chunks that have coated the airplane.

Type 4 fluid is thicker, we sprinkle it on after the airplane has been cleaned off of anything frozen. We don't heat it up - i hear other operators do. It's made to jell a bit and keep the snow / ice from sticking to the airplane, it mostly blows off above 120 mph. But it does leave a slippery residue if you get up on top the stabilizer to change an Airbus logo light.


Make more sense now? It's kind of fun to be in the open basket - for a little while. After your lips get numb from the cold then it's not so fun. (grin)
g'nite
 
RODOL
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:31 pm

Just as a sidenote while we are on the de-icing subject, earlier this year I was on board a Jet2 737 at MAN bound for LGW, the plane had been thoroughly de-iced, but because snow was still falling and some had settled on the wings, a passenger complained to the FA who informed the captain. The captain tried to pacify the passenger, saying the de-icer was good for a few hours after application, but this passenger wasn't having any, so we had to park remote and de-ice again, much to the chagrin of the rest of the pax. We were No.5 for take-off waiting for the runway to be cleared, so had to lose our place and go to the back of the queue. Is it standard practice for the flightcrew to pander to the concerns of the pax in this way?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting Buzz (Reply 29):
But it does leave a slippery residue if you get up on top the stabilizer to change an Airbus logo light.

That could be Dangerous.In case theres some Mx work to be done.Whats used to get rid of the Slippery surace coating.

Quoting RODOL (Reply 30):
The captain tried to pacify the passenger, saying the de-icer was good for a few hours after application, but this passenger wasn't having any, so we had to park remote and de-ice again, much to the chagrin of the rest of the pax.

Why would the Crew listen to the Pax.Highly Surprising.
regds
MEL
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aogdesk
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:08 am

Quoting RODOL (Reply 30):
The captain tried to pacify the passenger, saying the de-icer was good for a few hours after application,

Sounds a little fishy.....during precipitation, what de/anti-icing fluid is good for a 'couple of hours'? Particularly when it's sticking to the wing, as the post seems to suggest?
 
DC8FriendShip
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:27 am

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 32):
what de/anti-icing fluid is good for a 'couple of hours'? Particularly when it's sticking to the wing, as the post seems to suggest?

really! never heard of any fluid being good for more than 45-50 minutes. It all depends on the weather.
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RODOL
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:48 am

Quoting DC8FriendShip (Reply 33):
really! never heard of any fluid being good for more than 45-50 minutes. It all depends on the weather.

It was only the thinnest layer of snow, not obscuring the wing at all, the captain was probably trying to explain to the passenger that the remnants of the de-icing process would take care of such a modest ammount. After all, aircraft are de-iced during still falling snow all the time, surely?
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:49 am

At our airport the deicing crew use Killfrost ABC-2000. This is a type 2 fluid and is being used in different ratios mixed with hot water (80°C). I don´t have the tables here, but IIRC, if sprayed on in a 75/25 mix at temperatures down to -3°C during active frost (no precipitation) it will give you a holdover time of 4-6 hours. Precipitation and lower temperatures obviously reduce the holdover time down to in some cases 15 minutes. It has a much longer range of holdover times than e.g. generic type 2 fluids.

BTW, here is a picture of two Danish made Vestergaard Elefant Beta deicing trucks at work. This type of truck is used at our airport and is based on a Volvo truck.



Here is the link to the manufacturer's website:
http://www.g-vestergaard.dk/de-icing/beta.html


Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:34 am

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 15):
In a heavy snowstorm I remember once deicing a CX B744 with two trucks and we were not winning. When they had finished they had to start again. So we ended up with four trucks deicing at the same time.

That's funny.

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 15):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
Unless they are the same person. At ARN I've seen the driver get out of the cab, get into the basket and drive from there.

We tried a truck at ARN which was driven from the cab. It was operated by Nordic Aero for one season. But it was too slow and was sent somewhere else. So all the trucks are now two man operated.

AAAH. I see. It did seem cumbersome to drive from the basket. Thx for info.


One thing about cold weather is that those who don't live in cold/snow/ice conditions have no real understanding of it. It's not that they're stupid, it's just that you have to experience sleet and slush at just below freezing a few times to really "get it".

This includes people in Southern Italy who suddenly get 0.5 cm of snow. In Sweden this would mean a car or two off the road if it was the first snow of the season, but in Southern Italy, even though people know it gets slippery, there will still be lots of accidents because it's not programmed directly in the cortex. There's a difference between talking about cold/bad weather and experiencing it. People from warm climates often don't quite realize how snow and slush really behave.

Ok enough rambling.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:59 pm

What would be the quantity of De-Icing fluid be used on an Average on a B737/A320.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
pogo
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:37 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 37):
What would be the quantity of De-Icing fluid be used on an Average on a B737/A320

Obviously this average will differ from airport to airport depending on how cold they can get and how much snow etc, also how the fluid is applied as the hose nozzle can be adjusted from a fine wide spray to a strong blast. but from when I used to de-ice, 5 years ago, I remember the most I ever done was about 600 litres once on a 737-400, after that I think I was averaging between 400-500 litres.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:40 pm

Quoting Pogo (Reply 38):
Obviously this average will differ from airport to airport depending on how cold they can get and how much snow etc, also how the fluid is applied as the hose nozzle can be adjusted from a fine wide spray to a strong blast.

So is a particular qty sprayed on until all snow/ice is removed.What in case its still snowing,if outdoors.
What check is present to know that De-Icing has been accomplished.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:52 pm

I often have to open an emergency exit and climb on the wing to check if the is clear ice present before deicing (passengers are usually astonished, but IMO this is safer for me than climbing up on the wing using a ladder and I can check the wing in different places by feel instead of just 2 feet behing the leading edge, the reach of my arm from a ladder).

After deicing there is usually a quick visual inspection, elso you'll have to rely on the deicing operator, but I had some pilots at my previous job, who insisted that I should go up in the bucket and visually check the wings and stabilizers after deicing (the deicing crew there didn't have a good reputation).

Precipitation during deicing affects the holdover time, the deicing fluid contains thickeners so that it will stick to the wing like wall paper paste and protect it for a certain time against new ice forming, but depending on the temperature, the amount of precipitation and the concentration of the fluid there are varying holdover times counting fromthe start of deicing until the plane has to be in the air. These holdover times can vary from 4-6 hours for Killfrost ABC-2000 at moderate frost without precipitation to 10 minutes at low temperatures during heavy snow or sleet.

The amount of deicing fluid used depends on both the amount of ice and snow which has to be removed and the skill of the operator.


Jan
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HAWK21M
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:17 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 40):
often have to open an emergency exit and climb on the wing to check if the is clear ice present before deicing (passengers are usually astonished, but IMO this is safer for me than climbing up on the wing using a ladder and I can check the wing in different places by feel instead of just 2 feet behing the leading edge, the reach of my arm from a ladder).

Wouldn't walking on the wing with the fluid sprayed all over be more slippery.
regds
MEL
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pogo
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:22 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 39):
So is a particular qty sprayed on until all snow/ice is removed.What in case its still snowing,if outdoors.
What check is present to know that De-Icing has been accomplished

The state of the surface will give you a fair idea of how the fluid should be applied, eg. if there is thick frozen snow you give it a good blast, if very thin ice then a fine spraying should do.
When I de-iced I always gave it a decent spray, stopped, let the steam/mist clear and check, then apply more if need be and at all times making sure there was an even spread of fluid covering the wing & stabilizer surfaces.
As mentioned before de-icing fluids have hold over times depending on mix type and outside temperature, and de-icing should be done before push back to maximise the hold over time.
If it is still snowing then the fluid should be protective against the snow, I am not sure what happens if de-icing occurs in a blizzard as I have not had to de-ice in such conditions.
With regards to checks the captain can visually check from the cabin, also MX walk round, we have trained staff to check, unfortunatelY I do not know what there training involves.
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DC8FriendShip
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:41 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 37):
What would be the quantity of De-Icing fluid be used on an Average on a B737/A320.

Last year after an ice storm we blew two 1000 gallon trucks on one 737. The stuff was on one inch thick and wouldn't melt unless you sprayed it directly, the temp was so cold. We spent over an hour on that plane. That was the longest day I ever spent at the airport.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Deicing Dangers To Personell

Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:57 pm

Quoting DC8FriendShip (Reply 43):
That was the longest day I ever spent at the airport.

You are lucky.Mine was 38 hrs after a Hydraulic failure.  Sad
After reading the posts on the Difficulty experienced due to De-cing.Im glad theres not much snow out here.
Although I once spoke to a Friend in Mx at Moscow & he had some tough stories to tell.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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