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jmhLUV2fly
Topic Author
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 1999 4:15 pm

DL MD-88 Shutdown Procedure Question.

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:38 pm

This question is for those who are very familiar with how to operate MD-88's, with DL 88 pilots and DL mechanics in mind I suppose.
Here is the deal, last night, in Pensacola Florida Delta had two terminating
88's. I work on the ramp and am employed with the company that supports ramp services for DL in PNS. The airplanes pull in, we hook up the jetbridge power all is fine and great. At the end of the evening when we are prepared to leave, we precede to remove external power to both both a/c. On one of them, when power is removed a horn suddenly sounds, with closer inspection the emergency lighting is on, ie. battery power is being used. We all look at each other, and say anybody know how to turn off the battery power...uhhh..nope. I run and get some help from NWA, and a guy who has previous piloting experiece gives the flight deck a look over, he finally is able to get the emergency lighting to go off, but the master warning light in red is still on and the horn is still sounding, we didnt know what else to do and left with it like it was...so what exactly was going on here? Is the 88 somewhat difficult to shutdown properly? I remember a few weeks ago, a terminating crew struggled to get the airplane to shutdown right, we had to wait for them in the jetbridge (prior to cleaning) while they kept turning system on and off, and it would say "Auto pilot" and then off again and repeated it several times...so what gives on the ageing 88 birds?
Thanks for any info, hope all goes well in the morning for DL flight 1629.

JMH
 
AvionicMech
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:28 am

RE: DL MD-88 Shutdown Procedure Question.

Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:29 am

I don't know about the MD-88 but certainly on all Boeing's that I have worked on you get the outside horn going off if you leave the IRU's aligned and remove power. If the aircraft is left like that the internal battery inside the IRU will go dead and they may have to be replaced with new serviceable items. Also it sounds like the master caution system was still powered hence the big red light you talk about which probably means the battery was still on, in which case the main battery will be dead by the morning and also may need changing before the aircraft can fly.

I don't mean to sound bad but I think you have probably grounded that aircraft in the morning by not getting someone who knows what they are doing out to shut it down properly.
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2776
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: DL MD-88 Shutdown Procedure Question.

Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:57 am

Sounds like someone left the emergency light switch in the ARM position. In the MD-80, the Emergency exit lighting will illuminate and a master warning (red light) will be given if the DC Emergency Bus loses power, as long as the emergency light switch is in the ARM position. The bus was being powered by ground power. Battery power does not power this bus unless the Emergency Power switch is rotated to the on position.

To extinguish the Master Warning horn push on the red lights. Battery switch is located near the center of the overhead, just to the right of the Emergency Power (the big gray switch that rotates left and right). Just so you know, turning the battery switch off won't turn off the emergency lights. In fact, that switch must be on to turn off the lights with the emergency light switch.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: DL MD-88 Shutdown Procedure Question.

Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:49 am

If the terminating flight crew had shut everything down as they should have, the cockpit should be completely dark and power be configured on the ground service bus to recieve power from the GPU. (very aft overhead).

I used to work ramp back in the day as well, we had this problem from time to time...same on the 757/767, crews would stroll off having turned the battery off, but leaving the emergency exit lights on.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
airtran737
Posts: 3493
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: DL MD-88 Shutdown Procedure Question.

Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:35 am

Usually there is a checklist sitting somewhere in the cockpit that will tell you what to do. I have had this happen many times on the 717, I still like to call MX Control and have them walk me through it just to be on the safe side.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
DeltaGuy
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Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: DL MD-88 Shutdown Procedure Question.

Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:30 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 4):
Usually there is a checklist sitting somewhere in the cockpit that will tell you what to do.

The shutdown/termination checklist on most aircraft may be enough for a pilot to do it, but not a layman- they're not overly detailed. Either know it or leave it for the morning shift, Mx control has better things to do.

Back when I worked on the ramp, I always found it fun fixing things wrong in the jets when it was time to put them to bed- my supervisors were clueless about how to run an APU, shut down a jet, etc etc...even though I hadn't sat through one day of ramper training for that, I was always asked to go do it- turn off an APU, ride the brakes, turn off exit lights, etc.

I remember one night, my supervisor came up to me all freaked out..apparently the yokes on the 732 were moving by themselves, and it was "really freaky man" (to give you an idea of the caliber of folks running the ramp) I went up the cockpit, and as I thought, the altitude selection window had been selected from 00000 feet to 40000 (something like that), and the stick pushers were activating, master cautions were on, etc. Flip knob around, clear the lights..done. Hero for the rest of the week....exorcism completed? 0 Big grin.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
jmhLUV2fly
Topic Author
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 1999 4:15 pm

RE: DL MD-88 Shutdown Procedure Question.

Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:32 am

AvionicMech:
I appreciate your response and information. However, I think I went a good bit out of my way to try and save the airplane for the next morning.
I am not even a lead, I get regular agent pay and while every one else was walking out with no concern for the airplane horn I opted to go get help and look into it...I see where 1629 left ontime this morning so I actually helped save a flight that very well could have been cancled had I not done what I did. The person I did get to come over did have piloting experience.
Going above and beyond this what I do.

JMH-Pensacola, Florida
 
AvionicMech
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:28 am

RE: DL MD-88 Shutdown Procedure Question.

Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:41 am

Yeah don't get me wrong, I know you have done a LOT more than most people on the ramp would do, and I appreciate that it should be a lead's job to contact the Delta mechanics to come out and shut it down correctly.
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: DL MD-88 Shutdown Procedure Question.

Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting AvionicMech (Reply 7):
and I appreciate that it should be a lead's job to contact the Delta mechanics to come out and shut it down correctly.

Most stations don't have DL Mx...if you're not a hub, you're pretty much SOL. All of these stations have call-out contract Mx, which in some places is $100 just for the callout, nevermind the work performed. Most leads/sups wouldn't bother with it for that price, they'd rather see the jet left on.

Now, there should be more leads or supervisors trained in this sort of work- if a jet lays over at your station, you should be familiar with all aspects of ground handling, doesn't matter if it's dumping the lavs or turning the APU off. None of the "leadership" at our station knew a thing about it, and I was only delegated it as I'm a pilot and have flown some of these jets in the sim on the side...pretty sad that they couldn't have their higher-paid employees be smart enough to do it.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
atlamt
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:15 am

RE: DL MD-88 Shutdown Procedure Question.

Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:26 am

The crew left the a/c as if it was going to be used for another flight that day. The horn was the IRU warning. Basically the a/c needed to be turned back on. The a/c buses need to be powered. The horn will then stop and the IRU's can be selected to off.

Hopefully the a/c main battery wasn't left on all night. If it was the plane would need a new set of batteries in the morning.
Fwd to MEL and Placard
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 937
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: DL MD-88 Shutdown Procedure Question.

Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:02 am

Quoting AvionicMech (Reply 1):
I don't know about the MD-88 but certainly on all Boeing's that I have worked on you get the outside horn going off if you leave the IRU's aligned and remove power.

I believe this is the case with the Mad Dogs too. I used to be a ramp sup in DAB for DL and I know just what "horn" he is talking about. We were all trained to operate the APU and towing of aircraft so this was all explained to us. Im pretty sure that noise is from the IRU's. However, in DAB we never disconnected the power, we simply switched the EXT PWR switch on the overhead panel to the off position when we were done at night.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
twal1011727
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:36 am

RE: DL MD-88 Shutdown Procedure Question.

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting JmhLUV2fly (Thread starter):
On one of them, when power is removed a horn suddenly sounds

If you're still looking for your answer, the MD88s have inertial reference units IRUs. This is for the attitude indicator and some other systems..If the horn in the nose gear area sounds when power is removed, the IRUs haven't been turned off. On the overhead panel above the A/C pack switches (about 3 inches) is the IRU panel...turn the power on again then pull out and rotate to off. The align light will come on then go off. Once this is done for both IRUs then you can turn the main busses off. The emergency escape path lighting does not have a horn, it just turns the escape lighting on only. Again turn the power back on, move the emergency light switch to on then to disarm...the lights should go off. If they don't, then maintenance should be called. Always make sure the battery is turned off(any A/C) otherwise the batt will be dead in 1-3 hours. Most airlines get reaaallly pissed off about dead batts.

Remember - all power off - dark A/C

KD MLB
 
avioniker
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:38 am

RE: DL MD-88 Shutdown Procedure Question.

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:59 pm

Quoting JmhLUV2fly (Reply 6):
Going above and beyond this what I do.

Please don't take those of us trying to help you out wrong.
The problem here is deeper than just a dead battery. The fact of the matter is that you're not trained and didn't know what the horn was trying to tell you.
Call the DL station manager next time and let him sort it out. Delta will make sure there's a procedure in place next time to prevent that problem.
Now to the deep part.
If you had damaged any thing you could have been criminally liable for the damage. If you had an A&P you'd know that you are prohibited from touching anything unsupervised or untrained and could face the loss or suspension of your certificate.
The penalties are pretty stiff.
Had you caused the batteries to be dead in the morning by noting that the emergency lights had gone out (you didn't know if you'd exhausted the batteries or if you got lucky and found the right switch) and then pushed the master caution light to put it out but left the plane on emergency power, the possibility exists that the inverter could have been left running.
A few years (okay quite a few years) ago there were a rash of fires in the nose caused by Emergency Power Inverter transformer melting down.
Now to your scenerio; you leave the plane looking dead but the Emergency power is still on and there's a fire in the front.
What do you think your boss, the airport fire department, and the FAA are going to say? (I'm sure the NTSB would be in there somewhere too due to the disruption in operations and hull loss.)
The people in this forum are only trying to offer helpful suggestions. Very few people point fingers.
Bottom line, if you don't know, ask. Your responsibility and your authority ended when you notified the Delta personnel. Anything over and above that leaves you open to problems.

 Smile
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533

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