Technical Trivia

miamiair · Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 48):
nope, its rear part of the pylon that splits open

What part of the 727 pylon splits open? AFAIK, the trailing edge is a riveted wedge.

kaddyuk · Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:39 am

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 50):

What part of the 727 pylon splits open? AFAIK, the trailing edge is a riveted wedge.

He didnt mention the 727

we're talking about the '74

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 48):

nope, its rear part of the pylon that splits open

Ahhh... Where the hydraulics are? I know where you mean... The outboard ones are so friggin heavy, they're an absolute ARSE! LoL!

[Edited 2006-04-11 17:40:34]

[Edited 2006-04-11 17:42:01]

Matt72033 · Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:41 am

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 51):
He didnt mention the 727 we're talking about the boeing

the 727 is a boeing Wink

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 51):
Ahhh... Where the hydraulics are?

thats the chappy

kaddyuk · Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 52):
the 727 is a boeing

Alright... Edited because i'm too lethargic today...

miamiair · Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:32 am

Where is the Hell Hole in the 727?

How many leading edge slats does the 707-300 have?

DC-8, has slots or slats?

ReidYYZ · Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:01 am

I know Iv'e already revealed the answer, hoping for short-term memories and even shorter attentoin spans:
Why is it you lose primary flight control indications on eicas when you pull eng oil pressure cb's. Left engine: lh aileron and elevator, Right engine: rh aileron and elevator as well as rudder? (rudder may be on Lh eng)
This may be more common knowledge than I think: A330/A340 mlg shortening mechanism: Why both aircraft, for different reasons?

MX757 · Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 54):
Where is the Hell Hole in the 727?

Answer: The 48 section.

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 54):
How many leading edge slats does the 707-300 have?

Answer: 0. The 707-300 has L.E. Kruger Flaps.

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 54):
DC-8, has slots or slats?

Answer: Slots.

[Edited 2006-04-11 20:39:15]

miamiair · Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting MX757 (Reply 56):
Answer: 0. The 707-300 has L.E. Kruger Flaps.

707 does have slats. All leading edge devices outboard of the inboard engines are slats. Inboard of the inboard engines are Kruger Flaps. Ref: 707-300 IPC, ATA27.

MX757 · Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 57):
707 does have slats. All leading edge devices outboard of the inboard engines are slats. Inboard of the inboard engines are Kruger Flaps. Ref: 707-300 IPC, ATA27.

Okay, well I guess 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

KELPkid · Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 40):
Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 38):
The Cessna Diamond is that award given to the unattentive pilots who happen to make contact with the trailing edge of the wing of a cessna. Forming a neat diamond shaped scar on the forehead...

How does this look like exactly.What causes the Diamond shape.

regds
MEL

Hi MEL,

The trailing edges on the wings of a single-engined Cessna are taken up entirely by the control surfaces (inboard flaps, outboard ailerons). Well, Cessna control surfaces use the skin itself as a structural component (for the most part), so spaced every 3 to 4 inches, there is a diamond-shaped corrugation in the metal.

An inattentive ______ (fill in the blank: pilot, instructor, ramp worker, first-time GA passenger) will receive a rude awakiening when they walk into the trailing edge of the wing, and experience one of these unprotected corrugations for the first time Wink

And it doesn't help that for most people, the wing on the 150/152 or 172 is about forehead level.

I'll see if I can snap a picture in the next day or two when I drop by the airport...

Regards,

Brent

Starlionblue · Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:00 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 59):
I'll see if I can snap a picture in the next day or two when I drop by the airport...

Did you know this site has over a million pics of aircraft?

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Aernout ten Hulscher

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Alex McMahon

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Photo © Luc Willems

[Edited 2006-04-11 22:00:46]

DH106 · Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:56 am

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 57):
707 does have slats. All leading edge devices outboard of the inboard engines are slats. Inboard of the inboard engines are Kruger Flaps. Ref: 707-300 IPC, ATA27

I think we're just arguing nomenclature here - but I'm pretty certain all the 707's LE devices would be called Kruger's, or else a similar type of flap hinged at the LE and folding under the wing when stowed.

A slat, when deployed runs out on a track forwards and down, and when fully deployed leaves a slot between itself and the wing. They're usually airfoil shaped.

A Kruger deploys by pivoting down around a hinge set on the LE. They're usually much more flat shaped - especially on the 707.

Here's a good photo showing the full span Krugers - they all pivot down from the LE:
https://www.airliners.net/open.file/1013492/L/

SkydrolBoy · Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:46 am

Heres one for you guys,

Which commercial aircraft was the first to come with an apu from the factory???

MX757 · Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:24 am

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 62):
Which commercial aircraft was the first to come with an apu from the factory???

727?

aogdesk · Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:11 am

B737-100??

Original 727 APU wasn't OEM judging from its location

SkydrolBoy · Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:55 pm

You got it MX757, the 727 was the first aircraft to come with an APU.

OK next question, on factory original 727-100's what does the "APU" light on the FE's annunciator panel indicate???

DH106 · Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:47 pm

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 65):
what does the "APU" light on the FE's annunciator panel indicate???

The APU needs waitress service? Smile

VC-10 · Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:22 pm

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 62):
Which commercial aircraft was the first to come with an apu from the factory???

What about the BAC One-Eleven in 1963?

HAWK21M · Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 65):
on factory original 727-100's what does the "APU" light on the FE's annunciator panel indicate

APU Abnormal Shutdown......A guess. Smile

regds
MEL

Starlionblue · Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:48 pm

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 65):
You got it MX757, the 727 was the first aircraft to come with an APU.

The APU was not part of the original design. And weren't there props with APUs in the 40s/50s?

fr8mech · Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 65):
727-100's what does the "APU" light on the FE's annunciator panel indicate???

APU fuel valve open, I believe.

474218 · Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:02 am

Quoting DH106 (Reply 61):
think we're just arguing nomenclature here - but I'm pretty certain all the 707's LE devices would be called Kruger's, or else a similar type of flap hinged at the LE and folding under the wing when stowed.

A slat, when deployed runs out on a track forwards and down, and when fully deployed leaves a slot between itself and the wing. They're usually airfoil shaped.

A Kruger deploys by pivoting down around a hinge set on the LE. They're usually much more flat shaped - especially on the 707.

Here's a good photo showing the full span Krugers - they all pivot down from the LE:

Correct answers DH106:

A Leading Edge Flap when extended will not create a Slot between the Flap and the Wing.

A Leading Edge Slat when extended will create a Slot between the Slat and the Wing.

As stated in another reply the DC-8 wing had Slots, but they are a fixed part of the Wing Structure.

The 707-300 in the picture has Kruger Flaps = Leading Edge Flaps.

Mainliner · Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:14 am

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 65):
what does the "APU" light on the FE's annunciator panel indicate???

The exhaust exit door (if installed) is open?

SkydrolBoy · Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 70):
APU fuel valve open, I believe

Quoting Mainliner (Reply 72):
The exhaust exit door (if installed) is open?

Both of you are correct, on original 100's there was an exhaust exit door, and when the light was on indicated that the door was open, on -200's and modded 100's(without the exit door) the light indicates the fuel valve is open.

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 67):
What about the BAC One-Eleven in 1963?

Sorry my bad, after some research the 727 was the first BOEING aircraft to come with an APU, not sure on which a/c was the actual first to come with an APU.

avt007 · Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:17 pm

Some early turboprops came with a sort of APU. The Convair 580 had what they called a GTC- gas turbine compressor. It was used for starting the engines, but did not have a generator, so wasn't called an APU. Bloody noisy thing, though!

SkydrolBoy · Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:12 pm

Quoting Avt007 (Reply 74):
The Convair 580 had what they called a GTC- gas turbine compressor. It was used for starting the engines, but did not have a generator, so wasn't called an APU. Bloody noisy thing, though!

Actually some CV-580's did have an APU, some a/c had it mounted in the tail while others had what we call an upside down GTC, its basically the same as the GTC but was more powerful and had a generator (the reason it was called an upside down GTC is that it was the same basic model as the standard but the intake was on the bottom instead of the top.)

We just brought up a CV-240 that had an APU in it. It was a two-cylinder air cooled piston engine with generator mounted to it.

DH106 · Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:38 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 71):
As stated in another reply the DC-8 wing had Slots, but they are a fixed part of the Wing Structure

Yes, the slots were formed by doors in the main wing surface near the LE opening inwards. The spanwise extent of these slots is actually quite small on the DC-8, limited to an area inboard of each engine only - the outer engines having a larger slot for some reason.

dl757md · Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:21 am

Quoting Dl_mech (Reply 11):
Assume external power is already powering the A/C.

1) Place throttles full forward.

2) Turn off Stby power and External Power from the Cockpit panel.

3) Return Throttles to idle.

The plane is now on Ground Service.

Finally got a chance to try it out last night on ship 1404. Works as advertised. Have tried it on several 764s though with no luck.

Neat trick

DL757Md

SFOMB67 · Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:17 pm

OK, I have to get in on this with my favorite : where is the SOB fairing on a 767? If you ever replaced or rigged this, you won't forget it.

VC-10 · Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:59 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 71):
The 707-300 in the picture has Kruger Flaps = Leading Edge Flaps.

Looking at my copy of Boeing 707-720 Reference Guide (Boe Doc D6-40942) it says the 707 has 3 L.E. Flaps per side & 10 L.E. Slats per side.

miamiair · Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:56 am

Quoting DH106 (Reply 61):
A slat, when deployed runs out on a track forwards and down, and when fully deployed leaves a slot between itself and the wing. They're usually airfoil shaped.

A Kruger deploys by pivoting down around a hinge set on the LE. They're usually much more flat shaped - especially on the 707.

I agree with everything you wrote, but the "slats" on the 707 are not simply hinged, but articulated; and they do leave a slot. This is the difference between the Kruger flaps and the slats. This was done so that the inboard end of the wing would stall first. The 707 slats evolved to the variable camber devices found on the 747.

MD11Engineer · Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:56 am

Ok, where is the snake pit on a 737?

Jan

474218 · Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 79):
Looking at my copy of Boeing 707-720 Reference Guide (Boe Doc D6-40942) it says the 707 has 3 L.E. Flaps per side & 10 L.E. Slats per side.

In Reply 61 there is a picture of a 707-720 wing, do the Flaps/Slats extend further forward until the line up with the mark on the nacelles?

HAWK21M · Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:56 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 81):
Ok, where is the snake pit on a 737

Near Main Distribution Manifold,Aft wall of Fwd Cargo Compt.

regds
MEL

VC-10 · Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:52 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 82):
In Reply 61 there is a picture of a 707-720 wing, do the Flaps/Slats extend further forward until the line up with the mark on the nacelles?

Yes

SFOMB67 · Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:18 am

Did we establish the correct answers for these ?

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 45):
What is:
Sailboat on a B747 (classic).
We always called it the sail-tail fairing (behind the pylon)

Doghouse on a B747 (classic).
cabin storage compartment in front of a bulkhead

Donkey Dick on a DC8.
?

What is a Plasta-Jet (early term).

?

DH106 · Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:41 pm

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 80):
I agree with everything you wrote, but the "slats" on the 707 are not simply hinged, but articulated; and they do leave a slot. This is the difference between the Kruger flaps and the slats. This was done so that the inboard end of the wing would stall first. The 707 slats evolved to the variable camber devices found on the 747.

Yes - I take your point about the articulation & slot, but never the less in an engineering sense they do pivot down around a 'notional' LE hinge point rather than sliding out on a track. It's obviously all really in the name, but I'd regard these as slotted Kruger's, Boeing calls them slats.

Do the variable camber 747 devices leave a slot ? I didn't think so.

MD11Engineer · Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:06 pm

Quoting DH106 (Reply 86):
Do the variable camber 747 devices leave a slot ? I didn't think so.

No, they don't.

Jan

MX757 · Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:39 am

This is a two part question:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Vercruijsse

Question 1: This particular 747SP has a famous nickname. Name it.

Question 2: Besides the damage stated in the picture, there is some permanent damage not mentioned. Figure out what that is.

MX757 · Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting MX757 (Reply 41):
What part on the DC-9/MD-80 are called "Elephant Ears"?

Quoting MX757 (Reply 43):
Quoting Miamiair (Reply 42):
Guess would be the Main Gear Wheel Well Doors?

Nope, guess again.

Are there no other takers?

SFOMB67 · Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:30 pm

Quoting MX757 (Reply 88):
Besides the damage stated in the picture, there is some permanent damage not mentioned. Figure out what that is.

Don't know the nickname, but if this is the plane that made an emergency landing at SFO after the named incident, I seem to remember something being bent. Like maybe a wing spar???

DH106 · Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:20 pm

Quoting MX757 (Reply 89):
Quoting MX757 (Reply 41):
What part on the DC-9/MD-80 are called "Elephant Ears"?

Quoting MX757 (Reply 43):
Quoting Miamiair (Reply 42):
Guess would be the Main Gear Wheel Well Doors?

Nope, guess again.

Are there no other takers?

Elevator trim handles?

hangarrat · Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:32 pm

Quoting MX757 (Reply 88):
Question 1: This particular 747SP has a famous nickname. Name it.

"The Dive Queen"

Quoting MX757 (Reply 88):
Question 2: Besides the damage stated in the picture, there is some permanent damage not mentioned. Figure out what that is.

I can't recall, or find the specifics, but she landed with a permanent set to the wings, resulting in the loss or gain of several inches of dihedral.

Now N4522V, sitting on a ramp in Thunder Bay, Ontario. Her owners are hiding her from creditors and seizure by the FAA for unauthorized charter operation.

http://www.747sp.com/NewsDetail.asp?id=32

Air & Space Smithsonian had a more detailed article a few months ago.

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MX757 · Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting HangarRat (Reply 92):
Quoting MX757 (Reply 88):
Question 1: This particular 747SP has a famous nickname. Name it.

Quoting HangarRat (Reply 92):
"The Dive Queen"

Quoting HangarRat (Reply 92):
Quoting MX757 (Reply 88):
Question 2: Besides the damage stated in the picture, there is some permanent damage not mentioned. Figure out what that is.

Quoting HangarRat (Reply 92):
can't recall, or find the specifics, but she landed with a permanent set to the wings, resulting in the loss or gain of several inches of dihedral.

Two inch gain to be exact.

Boy, I thought that one would be a little harder figure out.

Do you have a subscription Air & Space magazine? scratchchin

MX757 · Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting MX757 (Reply 89):
Quoting MX757 (Reply 43):
Quoting Miamiair (Reply 42):
Guess would be the Main Gear Wheel Well Doors?

Nope, guess again.

Quoting DH106 (Reply 91):
Elevator trim handles?

Nope.

Here's a hint:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

miamiair · Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting MX757 (Reply 94):
Here's a hint

Horizontal Stab Fairings?

MX757 · Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 95):
Horizontal Stab Fairings?

Correct!

SFOMB67 · Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:45 am

Quoting Sfomb67 (Reply 78):
where is the SOB fairing on a 767?

I can't believe nobody has guessed at this ! Are there no 767 mechanics out here? It's on the 762 & 763 (probably the 764). It's called the SOB in the MM.

aeroweanie · Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:23 pm

Krueger Flaps, not Kruger Flaps! Krueger was a German aerodynamicist...

Here is a good question: what commercial airliner type has been in service with engines supplied by four different manufacturers?

cdfmxtech · Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:02 pm

U gotta do this again.
I got in after this topic was already gang banged Big grin

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