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Lu
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Landing 744 Bounce

Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:22 am

http://www.flightlevel350.com/video_streaming.php?id=425

A 744 landing Klax bounced several times. Why it bounces when landing, overspeed, crosswind, headwindm,tailwind or turbulence?

Thanks.
 
andrej
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:16 am

Hello,

I believe he bounced because the pilot opted for hard landing. I might be wrong!

Cheers,
Andrej
 
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September11
Posts: 3687
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:32 am

Nice video clip. To me, the plane made very light landing. It could be that the plane was nearly empty (few passengers, light cargo, etc).
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PhilSquares
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:51 am

Looks to me as if he flared late, late power reduction and excess airspeed.
Fly fast, live slow
 
rendezvous
Posts: 542
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:34 pm

It also looks as if the spoilers weren't armed as they didn't deploy on the initial gear compression.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:43 pm

Quoting Rendezvous (Reply 4):
It also looks as if the spoilers weren't armed as they didn't deploy on the initial gear compression.

The spoilers work off the ground sensing mechanism which is part of the gear tilt.
Fly fast, live slow
 
jamesbuk
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:38 pm

I think the reason he bounced is; if you watch the clip again but watch the elevators only, he flares then as soon as the wheels jus slightly touches he pulls back and it takes off again saying that he either didnt realise he'd landed or he wanted to make the weight onto the wheels smoother.
Make sense?

Rgds --James--
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
Lemmy
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:12 am

Looks like as soon as the spoilers deployed, he was on the ground in a hurry.

I know this is unlikely, but what if the air/ground sensors were to let you deploy the thrust reversers and, like this guy, you found yourself in the air again? Do you stow the reversers until you're back on terra firma, or do you leave the reversers out and just try to get the plane down again?
I am a patient boy ...
 
Gofly
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 3):
Looks to me as if he flared late, late power reduction and excess airspeed.

I trust Phil's answer guys.  Wink
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dalb777
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 3):
Looks to me as if he flared late, late power reduction and excess airspeed.

Thats what it looks like to me also.
Geaux Tigers! Geaux Hornets! Geaux Saints! WHO DAT!!!
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:48 pm

Quoting Dalb777 (Reply 9):
Thats what it looks like to me also.

Ditto  Smile
 
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zeke
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:36 pm

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 3):
Looks to me as if he flared late, late power reduction and excess airspeed.

The livery also tells the story  Smile
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:46 pm

^
you're kidding right? what a thoughtless comment to make.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Mr.BA
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:33 pm

The reversers can only be deployed when the main gears touches the ground completely. I think in the cases of bounces due to hard landings there just isn't ample time to engage the reversers before the air goes up into the air again.
Boeing747 万岁!
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:26 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 11):
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 3):
Looks to me as if he flared late, late power reduction and excess airspeed.

The livery also tells the story Smile



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 12):
you're kidding right? what a thoughtless comment to make.

Maybe a bit out there, but I would agree with Zeke. Sloppy handling (maybe not to the point of danger, but still) tends to be more common with some carriers.

I once saw a Biman DC-10 take off from LHR. Over rotation followed by overcompensation in down pitch as the aircraft had just become airborne, followed by another oscillation upwards. Scary scary scary and my thoughts were "do they have to conform to their stereotype?"

This opinion may not be very PC, but the truth is some carriers are not as good at training and procedures as others.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
VC-10
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:18 pm

Quoting Lemmy (Reply 7):
I know this is unlikely, but what if the air/ground sensors were to let you deploy the thrust reversers and, like this guy, you found yourself in the air again?

This is what happened to the prototype VC10 when it bounced after landing with the t.revs deployed


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Robinson

 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:40 pm

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 15):
This is what happened to the prototype VC10 when it bounced after landing with the t.revs deployed

What rate.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
highflyer9790
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:37 pm

Flared WAY to late...also, i think he was carrying too much speed into the flare.
121
 
VC-10
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:59 pm

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 17):
Flared WAY to late...also, i think he was carrying too much speed into the flare.

If you are talking about reply 15. I'm amazed how you can come to that conclusion just on one photo and no knowledge of the weather condition, a/c weight etc.

G-ARTA was landing v light in a severe x-wind and was caught by a gust just after landing. Due to the condition the FE had been briefed to get into Rev Thrust ASAP. Unfortunetly the gust came just at the wrong moment and took her up to about 50 feet, by which time flying speed had been lost
 
wing
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:09 pm

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 17):
Flared WAY to late...also, i think he was carrying too much speed into the flare.

Yeah sure,you are right,yes yes indeed ......

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 14):
Maybe a bit out there, but I would agree with Zeke. Sloppy handling (maybe not to the point of danger, but still) tends to be more common with some carriers

Its quite unexpected to hear this from you Starlion,sounds it may be more expected from the posters above.I disagree with this.

Every landing of the same pilot even to the same runway is a different story.Lots of variables involved on each landing.I have made some very smooth landings and some firm ones with same aircraft to the same runways which I fly everyday.It would be very unfair to be judged by some one who experienced the firm one,as" this company is always makes firm landings."

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 14):
This opinion may not be very PC, but the truth is some carriers are not as good at training and procedures as others.

As every company has many pilots with a wide variety of the skill levels and the backrounds.The aim is to get as much as them "standardised".I don't think any training department would want to standardise to a lower degree.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting Wing (Reply 19):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 14):
This opinion may not be very PC, but the truth is some carriers are not as good at training and procedures as others.

As every company has many pilots with a wide variety of the skill levels and the backrounds.The aim is to get as much as them "standardised".I don't think any training department would want to standardise to a lower degree.

Having flown domestically in a couple of African countries, I would say that I have seen my life flash before my eyes, but I'm still alive.

I'm not saying third world = crappy training and procedures. I'm just saying certain airlines (regardless of nationality) = less than desirable level of training and procedures.

Quoting Wing (Reply 19):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 14):
Maybe a bit out there, but I would agree with Zeke. Sloppy handling (maybe not to the point of danger, but still) tends to be more common with some carriers

Its quite unexpected to hear this from you Starlion,sounds it may be more expected from the posters above.I disagree with this.

You have a good point Wing and I thank you for keeping me "honest". I would clarify to say that I agree with you that not every pilot is 100% all the time. It's just that the average performance from pilots at some carriers seems to be less good than average performance from pilots at other carriers.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
highflyer9790
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:25 am

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 18):
If you are talking about reply 15. I'm amazed how you can come to that conclusion just on one photo and no knowledge of the weather condition, a/c weight etc.

I was actually refrencing the video posted...sorry i didnt make myself clear...
121
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:06 am

I bet the Captain slapped the shit out of his FO after that one. There is one rule in aviation, the flight always looks better from the outside. Imagine what that landing must have felt like form the inside.
 
wingscrubber
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:42 am

I believe this is referred to as 'an arrival', rather than 'a landing', must've popped open a few overhead bins!
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Mr.BA
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:16 pm

I think it's not really fair to put the PF down like that just based on this one... I mean they're humans as well and they make mistakes and no one is borned perfect and that's why we have training. Morever flying an aircraft is no easy task and that's just a slight bounce far from being near to an accident I guess.

Cheers  Smile
Boeing747 万岁!
 
Sabenaboy
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 5:31 pm

RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:48 pm

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 22):
I bet the Captain slapped the shit out of his FO after that one.

Why do you think it was the FO who did the landing?
 
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barney captain
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:50 pm

Quoting Sabenaboy (Reply 25):
Why do you think it was the FO who did the landing?

M thoughts exactly. "Less than perfect landings" are a fact of life - from both seats. The day that I'm positive that I'll never make another firm landing will be the day I retire.......  Smile
Southeast Of Disorder
 
flykal
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RE: Landing 744 Bounce

Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:26 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 11):
The livery also tells the story

Could have been a Canadian Captain for all you know...

giving the new on type FO a chance to fly the airplane as the foreigners usually do...
One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time

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