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JulianUK
Topic Author
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:00 am

Going Around The Correct Sequence Of Events?

Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:43 pm

If a pilot could answer the following on a commercial aircraft?

Once it is established that going around is now a certainty what is the exact sequence of events? My very amateurish guess is:

1) Activate TOGA button on autothrottles
2) This pushes power to max available
3) Aircraft will establish about a 10degree angle climb automatically
4) Establish a positive rate of climb, let aircraft build speed

but at what point do you take off flaps, up the gear, and change to either manual or autopilot taking charge?

J

[Edited 2006-04-29 15:43:43]
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Going Around The Correct Sequence Of Events?

Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:47 pm

Quoting JulianUK (Thread starter):
3) Aircraft will establish about a 10degree angle climb automatically

This depends on the aircraft. AFAIK on older planes like the DC-9 the FD will give you a bar on the artificial horizon to shoot for, but will not establish the climb.

Also there's probably some autopilot functionality involved. I'm not sure but would guess if you're hand flying you might have to actually do something even on a 90s jet  Wink


Flaps and gear are dealt with once positive rate of climb is confirmed. The aircraft can fly dirty so first priority is getting it up and away.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2407
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Going Around The Correct Sequence Of Events?

Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:10 pm

As Starlion said each a/c will have a specific proced. Should be some variation of a fairly standard set of events.
The MD-11 is :
"go-around"
"max pwr"
"flaps 28"
"positive rate"
" gear up"
"check missed approach altitude".

If the a/p is already engaged it can/will stay engaged; if it was disengaged it can be re-engaged at 500' agl as well as prof.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Going Around The Correct Sequence Of Events?

Wed May 03, 2006 8:38 pm

B73X is about the same except flaps 15
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Going Around The Correct Sequence Of Events?

Wed May 03, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 2):

The sequence he gives is just about the same for most jetliners currently in use. Differences exist in flap settings, company-required callouts and so forth.

The first steps can be done pretty much simultaneously. You can call "go around" or "TOGA" or "missed approach" or even "where the hell'd that tree come from?" as you are putting the thrust levers up to the position necessary and hitting thumb button or palm switch or whatever your plane has - and - simultaneously rotating if necessary to a climb attitude. (Some jets you need to prevent over-rotation when you cob the power.)

These steps put the plane in an attitude to climb, give it the power to do so, and re-set the Pilot-Not-Flying to the go-around mode. You can then call for "Flaps _____" whatever is the go-around setting even if the plane is still descending. No matter what, the flaps being brought up to that setting is going to decrease drag even if it does not increase lift. For sure, it will not decrease lift so there is no reason not to do it.

Gear, you absolutlely want to leave down and locked until you are fully established in a climb. In a rejected landing you are quite likely to touch down and roll along the runway in the early stages of this maneuver. You don't want the gear unlocked when this happens. By the way, having the thrust levers shoved forward will disarm or even retract ground spoilers and, obviously, unlock and stow the reversers. It should also disarm autobrakes.

As soon as climb is underway and the gear is coming up you are flying again - fly the airplane. Veryify the missed approach altitude first. This is critical because the plane is at landing weight and you could climb to that altitude before you know it, and bust right through it if you are not careful. Then it is not uncommon for a pilot to dive back down for the leveloff height and start some ungodly series of PIOs. There have been planes nearly lost in this mode.

Next is missed-approach lateral navigation. Is there a turn required? How soon? Where is holding? What kind of entry? (this is usually pretty obvious on missed-approach holds)

Then talk. Talk to tower. Talk to the passengers.

Of course if everything is under complete control the PNF can talk on the rado while yanking the gear and so on. But don't stop flying the airplane just to talk to somebody.

Those are all generalities. Your company procedures might well vary a bit, but those are the things we are trying to accomplish.

BTW, a missed in a lightly loaded twinjet is really fun. On the Airbus, for example with a missed approach altitude only a couple thousand feet above the airport, you will likely go to TOGA and then right back to CLIMB with the thrust levers because TOGA will just get you up there way too soon and make the maneuver a real E-ticket.

For you nervous passengers; doing a go-around is no big deal, even if the pilots don't talk to you for a minute or two. Just remember this: No one ever got hurt by colliding with the sky! Going up is not likely to hurt you.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Mastropiero
Posts: 113
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RE: Going Around The Correct Sequence Of Events?

Thu May 04, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
as you are putting the thrust levers up to the position necessary and hitting thumb button or palm switch or whatever your plane has

Sorry for my ignorance, but what are those thumb button or palm switch you mention there?
 
SlamClick
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Going Around The Correct Sequence Of Events?

Thu May 04, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting Mastropiero (Reply 5):
what are those thumb button or palm switch you mention there?

On some airplanes, used to activate the Go-Around mode on flight director and/or autopilot.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
JulianUK
Topic Author
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:00 am

RE: Going Around The Correct Sequence Of Events?

Thu May 04, 2006 6:10 am

Now if you have approach into the autopilot will it fly the missed approach published procedure or are you shuffling with charts trying to work out when to turn etc, or will air traffic immediately give you instructions?
 
UH60FtRucker
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:15 am

RE: Going Around The Correct Sequence Of Events?

Thu May 04, 2006 6:17 am

I know we're talking semantics here... but isn't it really a missed approach not a go-around?

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2407
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Going Around The Correct Sequence Of Events?

Thu May 04, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 8):
I know we're talking semantics here... but isn't it really a missed approach not a go-around?

One co. I flew for called it a PDM, Prudent Decision Maneuver
 
Bobster2
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Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:04 am

RE: Going Around The Correct Sequence Of Events?

Thu May 04, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 8):
isn't it really a missed approach not a go-around?

I believe that go-around is the more inclusive term that always applies. Missed approach and rejected landing have more narrow definitions.
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
speedracer1407
Posts: 330
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Going Around The Correct Sequence Of Events?

Thu May 04, 2006 4:27 pm

What kind of power settings are used in a goaround? The one and only goaround that I experienced was in an MD-80 into ORD just a hundred feet or so off the ground (my estimate). It FELT way more powerful than takeoff power, but as a passenger, it's silly to make assumptions.

So is Go around power a maximum power setting? Is it a specific precalculated thrust setting similar to a reduced thrust takeoff? Is it maximum continuous? Firewall thrust? Does it vary for different situations, like going around after touchdown versus going around 2 miles out?

I recently watched a video on Flightlevel350 in which the passenger in an A300 filmed a go around several miles out. The pilots did a quick 360, apparently to fix a spacing problem. The pilots seemed to apply a high thrust setting, but then noticeably (based on the sound) increased thrust 2 separate times during the turn. I figured GA thrust was GA thrust.

O
Dassault Mercure: the plane that has Boeing and Airbus shaking in their boots.
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Going Around The Correct Sequence Of Events?

Thu May 04, 2006 7:58 pm

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 8):
I know we're talking semantics here... but isn't it really a missed approach not a go-around?



Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 10):
I believe that go-around is the more inclusive term that always applies. Missed approach and rejected landing have more narrow definitions.

So it's not as simple as a Missed Approach for IFR and a Go Around for VFR?

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