Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
cptspeaking
Posts: 567
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:49 pm

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:58 pm

Quoting Mohavewolfpup (Reply 48):
only for the airlines that just fired all the pilots and copilots in their fleet.

I meant that having a wired system also would defeat the purpose of saving the space with the wireless...although you make a decent point too  Wink

Your CptSpeaking
...and don't call me Shirley!!
 
mohavewolfpup
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:52 pm

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:36 pm

Quoting BuckFifty (Reply 49):
I'd hate to think that a kid with a laptop can hack into the flight control system, and go for a joyride. Kids these days, give them a computer, anything can happen...

kids? yeah, I bet a kid really cares to hack into a 787 or the clattertrap A380 and fly it right into his backyard so he can turn it into a giant tree house. So your analysis is perhaps a bit on the flawed side........

give me a break. it would be a tailor made tool for terrorists like the shrub that needs a pruning in the whitehouse to use for fear, nothing more. a 15 year old won't care about it, but a government looking to strike fear into citizens would love to pull off world trade center 2.0 now that they have better tools then world trade center 1.0

all one needs to know about the power governments hold over people is the cows rear end stuff going on with the Adam Air 737 incident right now. so much spin and press mainpulation going on, a red phone is ringing in a big white building and "so mr president, you want to know how we did this? "of course, or my name isn't dubya, leader of teh free world!"

it's a government spin doctors dream come true......

"the noblest of designs and intentions bring utmost terror in a heartbeat"
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15092
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:56 pm

Quoting MX757 (Reply 2):
Mr. Mellor makes a very good point about electromagnetic interference or the ability to jam the radio signals between the cockpit and flight controls

Anyone ever flown in to a thunderstorm knows the sort of electromagnetic interferences it gives radios and alike.

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 38):
IN SHORT....It seems to me that fiber optic cables have the opposite characteristics one would need for aircraft cabling - most aircraft cabling, anyway. I can see it being used in IFE or for a few trunk lines to connect key areas - if it is used at all. At least that is my guess. I would welcome knowledgeable correction.

Fibre optics are being used on the 380, most of the devices on the aircraft are connected via a high speed ADFX network.

Military aircraft have been using quadruply redundant fibre optic control systems for some time.

Quoting Mohavewolfpup (Reply 45):
what was the deal with the A340 crash in toronto? wasn't that being flown by wire? or did the pilots have control during landing?

All airbus aircraft since the 320 are FBW, so is the 777 & 787, the 747-8i will have partial FBW.

Yes the pilots did have control.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:38 pm

Quoting Mohavewolfpup (Reply 45):
what was the deal with the A340 crash in toronto? wasn't that being flown by wire? or did the pilots have control during landing?

You might be confusing FBW with autopilot. Ask an Airbus pilot (e.g. Zeke or Pihero) if they have control during flight - don't listen to misinformation from the armchair "experts".  Smile

Quoting Mohavewolfpup (Reply 45):
the day a airplane goes 100% wireless and has no pilots upfront, I am *never* flying again. don't care how much I like the airline, i'll never fly again.

The technology would have to be proven. No-one's suggesting removing the pilots from the cockpit and just "hoping" the technology works. It won't happen today, it won't happen tomorrow but in 50 years or 100 years, who knows? You have to start somewhere. We'll never know if it works if no-one tries it.

Quoting Mohavewolfpup (Reply 51):

Say what?  confused 
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:12 pm




Quoting Mohavewolfpup (Reply 51):
clattertrap A380



Quoting Mohavewolfpup (Reply 51):
like the shrub that needs a pruning in the whitehouse



Quoting Mohavewolfpup (Reply 51):
or my name isn't dubya



Quoting Mohavewolfpup (Reply 51):
it's a government spin doctors dream come true......

The Civil Aviation forum called. They're wondering when to expect you back.  Wink


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
Starglider
Posts: 659
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:19 am

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting Mohavewolfpup (Reply 51):
it would be a tailor made tool for terrorists like the shrub that needs a pruning in the whitehouse to use for fear, nothing more. a 15 year old won't care about it, but a government looking to strike fear into citizens would love to pull off world trade center 2.0 now that they have better tools then world trade center 1.0

all one needs to know about the power governments hold over people is the cows rear end stuff going on with the Adam Air 737 incident right now. so much spin and press mainpulation going on, a red phone is ringing in a big white building and "so mr president, you want to know how we did this? "of course, or my name isn't dubya, leader of teh free world!"

it's a government spin doctors dream come true......

Time for a positive note to future developments regarding manipulation from an outside source: FBWless linked to "FBT" (Flight By Thought) will take care of that.

A pilot on board will work the hardest to get everyone safely on Terra Firma, if only to save his/her own soul. The weight due to his/her presence will be compensated by the absence of, by-then, outdated FBW.


Starglider
 
buckfifty
Posts: 1278
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting Mohavewolfpup (Reply 51):
kids? yeah, I bet a kid really cares to hack into a 787 or the clattertrap A380 and fly it right into his backyard so he can turn it into a giant tree house. So your analysis is perhaps a bit on the flawed side........

I was trying to be polite, without obviously pointing out to you that you're factually inadequate, just slightly unknowledgeable, perhaps without a sense of humour.

Quoting Mohavewolfpup (Reply 48):
you know this is tailor made for airlines to further boost profits and reduce expenses....

Without going into the obvious implications of safety, many modern innovations in commercial aviation are just that, to increase the cost effectiveness of flying. That is why FBW exist, and yes, it is safe. The 380 wiring issues have nothing to do with FBW, nor does the crash in Toronto.

Quoting Mohavewolfpup (Reply 51):
give me a break. it would be a tailor made tool for terrorists like the shrub that needs a pruning in the whitehouse to use for fear, nothing more. a 15 year old won't care about it, but a government looking to strike fear into citizens would love to pull off world trade center 2.0 now that they have better tools then world trade center 1.0

all one needs to know about the power governments hold over people is the cows rear end stuff going on with the Adam Air 737 incident right now. so much spin and press mainpulation going on, a red phone is ringing in a big white building and "so mr president, you want to know how we did this? "of course, or my name isn't dubya, leader of teh free world!"

The inventors have only put out a proof of concept aircraft, just to show the technology works (up to what point, we don't know yet.) It is a good idea, if there is an effective risk reduction strategy. As for potential applications, don't worry, you will not see this on the 787 or 350, it's quite a long ways off. As I said, it's probably most suited for use on lightweight UAV's at this point.

But what does the future hold? Who knows. As 2H4 have pointed out, many things which we believe to be impossible today do become reality tomorrow. It just takes a smart guy or two to figure it out. Bluetooth is not yet a mature technology at this point, every now and again I see something new with Bluetooth in it that just blows me away. Can it be improved? Perhaps...

Anyway, it's a bit worrisome when people start tying everything to terrorism. Soon, I'll probably have to buy a portable metal detector, just to make sure the donut I'm eating doesn't have a bomb in it...just the way Osama wanted it.
 
Valcory
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:56 pm

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:42 am

Quoting BoeingOnFinal (Reply 44):
the so called "pilot out of the cockpit" aircrafts we will "supposedly see in the future".

Pilots are just babysitters anyway you would not even know the difference.
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:26 pm

Quoting Valcory (Reply 57):
you would not even know the difference.

... until the new "pilots" joined the forums and started talking to us in binary.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 20002
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:09 pm

Quoting BuckFifty (Reply 56):

Anyway, it's a bit worrisome when people start tying everything to terrorism. Soon, I'll probably have to buy a portable metal detector, just to make sure the donut I'm eating doesn't have a bomb in it...just the way Osama wanted it.

Don't worry, the original contents are still pretty dangerous for your health. Big grin

Quoting Valcory (Reply 57):
Pilots are just babysitters anyway you would not even know the difference.

First of all, babysitters are pretty critical to society. Secondly, pilots are just a bit more important than that.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:01 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 59):
Quoting Valcory (Reply 57):
Pilots are just babysitters anyway you would not even know the difference.

First of all, babysitters are pretty critical to society. Secondly, pilots are just a bit more important than that.

Exactly. Pilots may make a lot of use of the autopilot but they still have to be able to perform without it and make decisions that the autoflight systems can't.
 
wing
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:10 am

Quoting Valcory (Reply 57):
Pilots are just babysitters anyway

Damn right,infact thats exactly what I am doing at the moment and I am proud of it  Smile

Chill out Valcory,as long as the people use the air travel they will need the pilots in the airplanes,and as long as the bugs live on the face of the earth, pilots will need you to clean the windshields.

So no worries we will both be doing what we are needed for and our jobs are secure  Wink
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
Valcory
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:56 pm

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:52 pm

Quoting Wing (Reply 61):
pilots will need you to clean the windshields

That's kind of hard to when you are in the engine shop overhauling engine's and changing APU's.If airlines could get rids of the pilots they would.(IMO) Look what happen to the flight engineers.Yes pilots do have a lot of responsibility at the same time flying these new airplanes are a lot easier. I have heard quite a few pilots say they rather fly the DC-9 rather than the A-320 the reasoning was they actually had to fly the DC-9.On the other hand they say flying the new airplanes are less stressful.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 59):
Secondly, pilots are just a bit more important than that.

Who said anything about pilot not being important.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 59):
First of all, babysitters are pretty critical to society.

No kidding ,did not say they were not.  stirthepot 
 
mrocktor
Posts: 1391
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:57 am

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
Signed,

FBW Skeptics in the 1970s

Priceless.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 16):
"Not possible today" is one thing. "Not possible" in absolute terms is another.

This is exactly the point. Flight itself is impossible, if you dial back only 100 years.
 
tlfd29
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:41 am

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:35 pm

Ok, not that anyone wants to put a halt on a classic A.net fued, but let's put some closure on this and just put bets on when the first commercial airliner flies with this technology. The winner gets a pat on the back and bragging rights for 2 days. Any takers?
 
mrocktor
Posts: 1391
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:57 am

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:19 pm

Quoting Tlfd29 (Reply 64):
let's put some closure on this and just put bets on when the first commercial airliner flies with this technology

2 years for no safety effect functions (787 IFE), 10 years for non-critical core functions, 20 years for safety critical functions.

(just using the FBW timeframe  Wink )
 
wing
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting Valcory (Reply 62):
That's kind of hard to when you are in the engine shop overhauling engine's and changing APU's.

Airplanes so advanced to fly without pilots, sure will not brake up or need engine overhauling or an APU change.

An airplane should be virtually unbreakable to be flown without a pilot,therefore not requiring technicians to repair it.  Wink



Quoting Valcory (Reply 62):
I have heard quite a few pilots say they rather fly the DC-9 rather than the A-320 the reasoning was they actually had to fly the DC-9.On the other hand they say flying the new airplanes are less stressful.

I highly doubt that these should be a pilots words.If you ever see that pilot again tell them you have meet a real A320 pilot and I laughed my a** off to his words.A320 can be flown exactly like a C-172 if needed but why should you?

To sum it up,in my airline everybody does their jobs,ground crews,maintenance personnel they all share the same goal,and the captain is the leader on the organisation.The captains last job is to actually manually manupulate an airplane's controls.They work mostly same as a orchestra chief to orginise the operation of that flight.So if you think that airlines will get rid of this best worker in their hand you are so wrong.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
Valcory
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:56 pm

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:41 am

Quoting Wing (Reply 61):
jobs are secure

That's why airlines are outsourcing work????????????????????????????

Quoting Wing (Reply 61):
pilots will need you to clean the windshields.

Second though i might do that,that way you won't be taking off from the wrong runway,landing on the taxi way,or in an inactive airport.
 
Valcory
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:56 pm

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:45 am

Quoting Wing (Reply 66):
engine overhauling or an APU change

I thought those were time change issues????????????????
 
wing
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: "Fly-By-Wireless" Concept Plane Flown

Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:44 am

Quoting Valcory (Reply 67):
Second though i might do that,that way you won't be taking off from the wrong runway,landing on the taxi way,or in an inactive airport.

Thank you but I don't need to look out from the window to fly the airplane.  Smile
We only ask you guys to clean the windshields, just to provide you something important that you can tell your friends at the bar.  Wink
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ElroyJetson, PresRDC, RetiredWeasel and 35 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos