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KELPkid
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Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:15 am

Hi folks,

I went to the post office yesterday (the one located @ PDX) on my lunch break to mail something, and I saw one of the coolest sites that I've seen for a while.

An F-15, presumably from the Oregon ANG Base on the south side of the field, took of on Runway 28R, both afterburners on full, and went vertical...and kept on going up and up until I could no longer see him due to the roof of my car (damn! Should have ordered the sunroof option...)  Wink

I'm just curious what the ATC clearance must have been like for that, considering he was operating out of a civil field...too bad I didn't have my scanner with me! I'm also betting he was using the military UHF frequencies to communicate with PDX tower/departure/Seattle Center...
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
pilotpip
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:23 am

Here at STL they have what's known as the Viking Departure. They clear the F-15 flight for takeoff, and when giving that clearance they also tell them to switch to departure.
DMI
 
cptspeaking
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:14 am

I was on a long cross-country at night last year near Seymour-Johnson (no lie  biggrin  ) AFB in Goldsboro, NC, a huge eagle base. We were listening to ATC obviously, and heard,

"Banzai 01, cleared direct to one-one, 11,000."

I looked out towards SJ AFB and saw two burners light and go straight up. Since they were operating on a UHF frequency and we were just hearing the VHF repeater from the controller, I didn't hear the request from the F-15 or his readback.

Not sure if thats the way it is all the time, but thats what I heard and saw that night! That was one of the coolest things I've ever seen in aviation...hope it helps!  Smile

Your CptSpeaking
...and don't call me Shirley!!
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:43 am

Quoting KELPkid (Thread starter):
I'm just curious what the ATC clearance must have been like for that, considering he was operating out of a civil field...too bad I didn't have my scanner with me! I'm also betting he was using the military UHF frequencies to communicate with PDX tower/departure/Seattle Center...

Normally, it takes a little bit of coordination between tower and departure. While you're in the chocks if you ask for an "afterburner climb" or an "unrestricted climb", tower knows what you want. It's pretty easy for departure to get a climb to FL230 (in the US) without any problems. Higher than that, now you're into the High Sectors of the ATC structure and that is much easier coordinated when you're airborne.

PDX is a "joint use" field, so the ATC people there are familiar with the F-15 operatin there.

In essence, your climb instructions will be "climb unrestricted to FLXXX".
Fly fast, live slow
 
Stealthz
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:07 pm

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 3):
In essence, your climb instructions will be "climb unrestricted to FLXXX".

Went to a presentation given by a recently retired RAAF F/A-18 pilot a few months back, he related a tale.
He was assigned as one of the display pilots for the Formula 1 Grand Prix in Melbourne, they based for the weekend at MEL, the morning after the event being a usual Monday and with added traffic from the GP things were busier than normal so the 2 Hornets were given a combined take off and departure clearance to "expedite to FL360". They did.. there were some surprised acknowledgements when they reported "established FL360" before they crossed the Airport fence
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Woodreau
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:17 pm

There's an IMAX movie out there, "Red Flag" where you can hear the actual ATC instruction from the Tower given to a departing F-15:

"Fly runway heading, cleared for takeoff, unrestricted climb to FL250 approved."

Next thing you see is the takeoff roll, rotate, and the F-15 going vertical... neat film to see if you haven't seen it.
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KELPkid
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 3):
While you're in the chocks if you ask for an "afterburner climb"

Not to be pedantic, but couldn't that be a bit ambiguous? I've noticed that when the Eagles are carrying any sort of war load (i.e. external ordinance, usually a bunch of external tankage), afterburners on departure are par for the course (although I'd imagine you'd have a little trouble going vertical with 3 external tanks, full of fuel attached!  Wink ).

When they go vertical, wouldn't the weapons loadout be pretty light, like a bunch of AIM-9's and maybe some other air-to-air missiles?
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FredT
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:40 am

Those fast jet climbs do put some strain on the algorithms within the TCAS boxes in aircraft in the area...  Smile
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting FredT (Reply 7):
Those fast jet climbs do put some strain on the algorithms within the TCAS boxes in aircraft in the area...

On a related side note, I wonder what number the F-15's VSI pegs out at...  Wink
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PhilSquares
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:50 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
When they go vertical, wouldn't the weapons loadout be pretty light, like a bunch of AIM-9's and maybe some other air-to-air missiles?

Not really, even with 3 bags (external tanks) and all stations full, you can still water everyone's eyes. It's just not so impressive and you tend run out of smash earlier.

The IVSI pegs out at 6000' fpm.
Fly fast, live slow
 
lorm
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:28 pm

At PHNL/PHIK it is called a "HANG TEN", refering to the H-awaii A-ir N-ational G-uard.
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speedracer1407
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:27 pm

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 9):
The IVSI pegs out at 6000' fpm.

You know, I always wondered what sort of VSI was installed in those fighters. Is it really just 6000 FPM? Is there no need for fighter pilots to monitor extreme ascent rates?
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KELPkid
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting Speedracer1407 (Reply 11):
You know, I always wondered what sort of VSI was installed in those fighters. Is it really just 6000 FPM? Is there no need for fighter pilots to monitor extreme ascent rates?

The A and B models of the F-15 had relatively conventional instrumentation supplemented by the HUD...if you lost the HUD, you were relying on a standard 6-pack (I flew the F-15A IFR sim at HMN in 1991  Smile ). I don't remember the HUD showing ascent or descent rates, you just watched the altitude wind up or down in the HUD...
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DeltaGuy
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:56 am

The F-15's in my Guard squadron do it on a daily basis...ATC at our airport is of course familiar with it, so all's you have to do is ask...puts on a nice show for all of us working on the flightline. If there's a scramble, all of the other traffic on the airport will stop dead until the Eagles can taxi the 200' from the alert barns over to the runway....then some of the best climbs you've seen Big grin

DeltaGuy
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ftrguy
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:20 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 8):
On a related side note, I wonder what number the F-15's VSI pegs out at...

For what its worth, the F-18 doesn't peg out at a certain point. I've had it sustained at 36000fpm for 15 seconds or so and I've seen in the 40K's for a second or two.
 
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rg828
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:29 am

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 4):
there were some surprised acknowledgements when they reported "established FL360" before they crossed the Airport fence

I once met a pilot who had the same experience in one of these:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel Umaña



He said it kind of irked the tower controller because he could'nt switch him to departure until he was out of the airport boundary, and he was going straight up.

What surprised me even more was the fact that you can go vertical in an RB-57 eyepopping 
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N766UA
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:30 am

Quoting Woodreau (Reply 5):
There's an IMAX movie out there, "Red Flag" where you can hear the actual ATC instruction from the Tower given to a departing F-15:

I'm not so sure about that movie. Alot if not all of the radio traffic sounds fake, just like alot of the CGI stuff is made up (like making it appear that the AWACS guys just watch 3D video games for displays). Although, in the case of a fighter, they would clear them for an unrestricted climb.
 
tito
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:57 pm

I've always wondered if you're in a vertical climb and the controller asks you to "say your heading." what's the response?
 
sprout5199
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:49 pm

Quoting Tito (Reply 17):
I've always wondered if you're in a vertical climb and the controller asks you to "say your heading." what's the response?

UP?

Dan in Jupiter
 
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Bruce
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:47 am

Here at GRB, I was listening to ATC when the Viper East F16 took off for a short hop over to the show area...I forgot the callsign but it was "viper ____" and tower said, "cleared for the unrestricted climb to 9er thousand, Cleared for takeoff, contact departure"

also, WHAS-TV in Louisville has a video on their site of one of their reporters taking a flight with "blue Angel 7"...you can hear the complete ATC transmission as well as pilot/passenger talk. They were cleared for an unrestricted climb to 8,500. Accelerated to 140kt, then rotate, then nose over level while accelerating in afterburner, gear up, then at 250kts he plants the stick in his lap..... all this BEFORE the end of the runway!

bruce
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cancidas
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:28 pm

i got to hear a relatively new controller panic when he saw the blip on the radar stop moving. he called the eagle and asked him to say direction of flight. the pilot responded, very calmly, "up, sir."
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
P3Orion
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:13 pm

"VVAG101, Brunswick Tower, on departure maintain one zero thousand, change to departure approved, wind one eight zero at six, runway one niner left cleared for take off."
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bri2k1
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:30 pm

"VVAG101, Brunswick Tower, on departure maintain one zero thousand, change to departure approved"

I was given a similar clearance once prior to takeoff.

It was from LXV  Silly
Position and hold
 
David L
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RE: Vertical F-15 Climb-what's The ATC Like?

Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting Cancidas (Reply 20):
i got to hear a relatively new controller panic when he saw the blip on the radar stop moving. he called the eagle and asked him to say direction of flight. the pilot responded, very calmly, "up, sir."

I guess if the contact stops moving but shows airspeed the aircraft is going in one of two directions and one of those directions is going to ruin everyone's day.  Smile

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