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HAWK21M
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B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:44 pm


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Is this correct.
Using a Forklift rather than a Main deck loader to off load a Pallet from the Main deck.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
ha763
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:49 pm

Looks like they are either removing or re-installing the seats. At least they are using a dolley that has forklift holes. Not the prefered method, but I guess it works. Aloha actually modified a truck to hold all the seats of a 732QC, drive up to the main deck door, and push the seats on and off of the truck into or out of the aircraft
 
dogfighter2111
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:18 pm

Well if the forklift can lift that weight then there is no problem, you may aswell use all of the tools avialable to you at the time. I have seen this done before at other airports, so why not?

If there wasn't a loader available at the time and the aircraft was required soon, then just improvise. If it works, do it!

Thanks
Mike
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:43 am

If it's there and it'l do the job, use it...



CanadianNorth
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HAWK21M
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 1):
Aloha actually modified a truck to hold all the seats of a 732QC, drive up to the main deck door, and push the seats on and off of the truck into or out of the aircraft

Any pics of this unit.

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 2):
If there wasn't a loader available at the time and the aircraft was required soon, then just improvise. If it works, do it

The concern of the Forklift use is that there is always a chance of Tilt.Also the Dolly seems forklift Enabled but the Pallet is held only by End locks upto a certain height.Considering the Proximity of the MCD to the Engine.Does not seem a very bright idea.
Agree as there is no Main Deck loader Available at the time,Improvisation may be needed,but it could be a very Expensive one too.
Is this Airport a Frequently used one,If so a Main Deck loader should be a mandatory Equipment.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
dogfighter2111
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:28 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 4):
The concern of the Forklift use is that there is always a chance of Tilt.Also the Dolly seems forklift Enabled but the Pallet is held only by End locks upto a certain height.Considering the Proximity of the MCD to the Engine.Does not seem a very bright idea.
Agree as there is no Main Deck loader Available at the time,Improvisation may be needed,but it could be a very Expensive one too.
Is this Airport a Frequently used one,If so a Main Deck loader should be a mandatory Equipment.

So true, but the Forklift in that picture is weighted at the back so it won't topple over so long as the ground crew dn't out any weight on the forks over the mac load. Also they have instruction manuals on the max weight it can carry etc. so they know what they are doing.

Thanks
Mike
 
greasespot
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:28 pm

we use a forklift exlusively.....Have used itsince we got our first combi in 1986....and we used to do a lot of recons...Never had an accident.......yet Cagro which has used an FMC loader has hit the airplane on a fairly consistant basis....

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:41 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 6):
we use a forklift exlusively

Is this a Frequent use or Rarely.If frequent Is it preffered over the MDL.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
greasespot
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:16 pm

Frequent....We do between 3 and 5 recons a night....every night..

We use the forklift becasue it is a lot more flexiable. Since the aircraft were not QC we had to install every seat and lock every time. Plus on the B727 we had to move galley positions.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
ha763
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:51 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 4):
Any pics of this unit.

Sorry, I don't have a picture. AQ also has basically kept the QC's exclusively in cargo configuration for the past few years. They have avoided using the QC's for pax use due to the smell that will linger, especially the fish smell, after a full night's work. The truck in question is currently parked under an enclosed tent next to their cargo ramp and since I don't work for AQ I can't exactly get a picture of it.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:26 pm


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Quoting Greasespot (Reply 8):
Since the aircraft were not QC we had to install every seat and lock every time.

How long.

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 9):
The truck in question is currently parked under an enclosed tent next to their cargo ramp and since I don't work for AQ I can't exactly get a picture of it.

Understandably.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Tod
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:33 pm

Gotta love those Boeing Superjet stowbins on the QC aircraft.

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Since they are shaped to accommodate the cargo containers, they are tiny compared to most modern aircraft.

Tod
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:36 pm

What about the Floor.Do the Pallets holding the Seats have carpets.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Tod
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 12):
Do the Pallets holding the Seats have carpets.

The AS 732 do (but soon I'll have to say "did")

Tod
 
SkydrolBoy
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:36 am

Up until about 3 months ago we used to always unload our 727 and CV-580 freighters in YLW with a forklift and pallet. The company couldnt justify the cost of a main deck loader for only loading one flight a week, but now that we are doing it daily we finally got one. Our pallet was highly modified, they added on catwalks and railings along the side so that you can have guys standing on the side of the pallet to help push/pull the bins as required, they also beefed up the bin lock on the pallet just to make sure that no bins would come flying off while up in the air. We got so good at loading with the forklift we could unload a fully loaded 27 in almost the same time as you can with a main deck loader.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting Tod (Reply 13):
The AS 732 do (but soon I'll have to say "did")

Any Pics.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Tod
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
Any Pics.

Of carpet?  rotfl 
I usually take those by accident while fiddling with my camera.

I admit I take some odd pictures, but no 732QC carpet to be found.

Here's a couple a.net shots of the AS 732QC that show the floor:


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Photo © Deepak Subramony



Tod
 
greasespot
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:56 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
How long.

B737 combi takes anywhere from 1-3-4 hours to recon..(3 people)

B727-100(when we had them) took anywhere from 3.5-7 hours depending on the recon. (4-6 people

and the B727-200 takes between 3.5-9 hous depending on the recon...(4-6 people)

The B737 does not heed to have galleys moved or removed while the B727's do..

GC
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
L-188
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:51 am

You have to remember that a pallet loader is a fairly complex piece of equpment, and for outstations would be too expensive to maintain.

A forklift is simple, easy to use, and since it is a mass produced piece of equipment, as opposed to a specialty one, parts availablity is much greater.
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HAWK21M
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:11 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 18):
You have to remember that a pallet loader is a fairly complex piece of equpment, and for outstations would be too expensive to maintain.

A forklift is simple, easy to use, and since it is a mass produced piece of equipment, as opposed to a specialty one, parts availablity is much greater.

I think a Forklift has multiple uses for a Cargo Airline,Hence reduces Stores Inventory too.That would be the main reason for its use while loading pallets.

However the Mechanism of an MDL is not as complex as it seems.Mainly relying on Solenoids to move spool valves that port Hydraulic fluid to MPF,Bridge,PDUs & Stablizer Jacks.Apart from the Drive that moves the MDL.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
L-188
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:08 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):
I think a Forklift has multiple uses for a Cargo Airline,Hence reduces Stores Inventory too

Agreed. I wouldn't say it was the main reason though.

A pallet loader is desinged to handle one load igloos/pallets. A forklift can handle pallets, Igloos, and bulk cargos.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):
However the Mechanism of an MDL is not as complex as it seems.Mainly relying on Solenoids to move spool valves that port Hydraulic fluid to MPF,Bridge,PDUs & Stablizer Jacks.Apart from the Drive that moves the MDL.

Sorry I have to go ahead and say that is a complicated systems....A forklift has a pump and valves.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:42 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 20):
Sorry I have to go ahead and say that is a complicated systems....A forklift has a pump and valves.

I'd say More reliable v/s older Technology.However its upto the Airline to decide what they want & why.  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
ha763
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:38 am

Today, I noticed AQ had their modified truck parked right outside of the tent when I passed by and was able to get a couple of shots. It kind of looks like a school bus, but they actually built a shed structure on it to protect the seats. The tent in the background is where the truck is usually parked.

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HAWK21M
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:42 pm

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 22):

Very Simple looking Mechanism.How many Seat mounted Pallets would they hold.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
DABZF
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:19 am

The Channel Express plane in the first pic is the old LH D-ABXA which I had a "pleasure" to work with.  Smile

LH used to have special trucks (2 per a/c, if I remember correctly) which kept the seats inside and covered from weather etc. during night time when the plane was used for Cargo flights.
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ha763
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:29 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 23):
Very Simple looking Mechanism.How many Seat mounted Pallets would they hold.

I don't really know, but it looks like it can hold 3 or 4 88-inch pallets.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:28 pm

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 25):
I don't really know, but it looks like it can hold 3 or 4 88-inch pallets

A normal fully loaded B737 freighter would need 7-8 pallets,if dimensions are 88"x128".So there should be two such trucks if used as all Freight.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
greasespot
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:25 pm

NOt every combi is a QC. Lots are jsut combies with the seats mounted to the brownline. I know for us QC pallets cost us to much in freight as there are no roads where we fly.

Canadian NOrth had that same storage as AQ. They never put palletized seats in ..It held the floor locks and seats only.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:44 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 27):
Canadian NOrth had that same storage as AQ. They never put palletized seats in ..It held the floor locks and seats only

I presume you are referring to -C not -QC then.
Do all the Seats get replaced or only a few while carrying Freight.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
greasespot
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:06 am

Depends on what the recon is....For us we always ran with a combination of pax and seats.....

Been a while but our recons on the B737 were as follows:

pallets/seats

2/76
3/60
4/54
5/24

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:01 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 29):

2/76
3/60
4/54
5/24

So the ratio is not specific but varies.Is 5 the Max.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
L-188
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:42 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 27):
NOt every combi is a QC. Lots are jsut combies with the seats mounted to the brownline. I know for us QC pallets cost us to much in freight as there are no roads where we fly

When I was at Reeve, they owned one set of palletized seats, and two combi 727's. So sometimes they flew with the palletized seats and sometimes not. The pallets of seats are heaver then bolting them directly to the floor, and I do recall one time where we had to bump baggage on a fully loaded aircraft due to the fact that it had the palletized seats and not floor mounts.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 30):
So the ratio is not specific but varies.Is 5 the Max

I'll have to find my old AS config card, but I am really sure that the max pallets you can get into one of their 737's is 6 no pax. On the 727QC it was a max of 7 pallets in all freight, but that was because of the way Reeve choose to arrange the galley. Alaska had a freight bird that held 8 pallets because the aft gally was not installed.
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HAWK21M
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:20 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 31):
I'll have to find my old AS config card, but I am really sure that the max pallets you can get into one of their 737's is 6 no pax.

If not mistaken it should be 7.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
greasespot
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:51 pm

We took the galley's out in full freighter on the 727 and had to reinstall either an aft one or a mid one depending on the config.

On our B727-200 combi we have to yank the over head bins outfor each recon...

There is nothing easy about recon'ing a B727.....

We have one B737 in YZF that has hard mount seats forthe first 24 and then palletized seats in the front. That way we can put more seat on for the Yeg YZF leg where there is less freight then yank them out for the Northern sectors. And then at the end of the day we can out them back in when the chairs are requred for the YZF to YEG.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
L-188
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 32):
If not mistaken it should be 7

No it six the way that AS had theirs configured.

I'll have to find the card. One interesting thing about the AS 737QC's vs. the Reeve 727QC's was that the 737 held a max of 6 pallets and the 727 held 7 pallets max (only say configed this way once. But in all seats config AS's birds held 111 passengers and RV's held 110.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B737 QC Ops - Is This Right.

Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:27 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 34):
No it six the way that AS had theirs configured.

Surprising.since the B737SF could fit 6 pallets of 128x88 & 1 pallet of 88x88.
Where is the extra space used for I guess the Galley since its a Combi.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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