Anyone care to fill me in on what type of information is on the security clearance cards aircrew members wear?

I see those tags stuffed with numbers and barcodes...What does each mean?

Quoting ChewingPlastic (Thread starter): Anyone care to fill me in on what type of information is on the security clearance cards aircrew members wear?

Every airport is slightly different. The basics.. Your name, who you work for and were you are allowed to go on the airport and your level of clearance.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1): The basics

I assume that a photo and date of issuance/expiration would be included as well.

Quoting ChewingPlastic (Thread starter): I see those tags stuffed with numbers and barcodes...What does each mean?

Not all have barcodes, Mine has an ID Number on it and the company that i work for... Job title and name... thats about it...

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 3): Not all have barcodes, Mine has an ID Number on it and the company that i work for... Job title and name... thats about it...

Yes its amazing that aircrew badges are accepted at every airport. but engineers/mechanics badges are not. We have to apply for a new badge at every airport, take the security test and apply for a police check, but the crew just walk in!!!!!!

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 4): Yes its amazing that aircrew badges are accepted at every airport. but engineers/mechanics badges are not.

I've been to a couple of airport (ICT) comes to mind, where they have what is called a mechanic's ID. You sit through a quick (10 min) lecture on local security and you're issued the ID. Your company ID goes inside the mechainc's ID. You are limited to your company's operations area and it is good for a limited time.

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 4): its amazing that aircrew badges are accepted at every airport. but engineers/mechanics badges are not.

That must be case of practicality vs security.

You can't very well detain every crew on turnaround until you have checked them out. Mechanics, however, you would expect to wait, since they're generally going to be based somewhere.



Incidentally, I have a mechanic's "uniform" downstairs; Boiler suit, tool belt, goggles, ear defenders, boots, HVV, etc. Took me all of five minutes to put that lot together, and all from one place.

A pilot's uniform would take rather more effort, I should think.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 5): I've been to a couple of airport (ICT) comes to mind, where they have what is called a mechanic's ID. You sit through a quick (10 min) lecture on local security and you're issued the ID. Your company ID goes inside the mechainc's ID. You are limited to your company's operations area and it is good for a limited time.

Well if an engineer arrives in ARN to do my job when I am away, he has to apply to the Swedish LFV for clearance. It doesnt matter that he holds an airside pass for LHR and CDG and MAD and AMS, they will send off his request to the checking service in the UK. A reply takes about 6 weeks. He then has to take a driving test, and a security exam. So about 6 weeks after I get his name, I can get him out on the ramp alone. (We can do it quicker for accompanied, but we work one on each shift!)
One day the EU or the JAA will come out with an airside pass for us as well.
I have been on the ramp in OSL KEF BRU and LUX in the past month. All takes organisation and help, even if I was accompanied each time.

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 6): A pilot's uniform would take rather more effort, I should think.

Not whole lot really. Most uniform items could be purchased from just about any pilot supply shop. Company specific insignia could probably found on eBay. I would take longer than five minutes for sure, but it could be done with out too much trouble.

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 7): I have been on the ramp in OSL KEF BRU and LUX in the past month. All takes organisation and help, even if I was accompanied each time.

Luckily in the UK, If you hold a BAA Pass, its good at all BAA Airports (If Given the clearence by your company of course). Mine is good at Gatwick and Heathrow because thats where I work. It also allows me access only to Passenger Airside, The Ramp, Taxiways and I also have Runway Access (Incase we have an aircraft stuck on the rwy). I cannot enter Baggage areas because i'm not required to in my job.

They've recently changed the format for ALL United Kingdom Airport Passes to a Uniform System. I belive this is so that One card can theoretically get a person access to all airports in the country...

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 5): I've been to a couple of airport (ICT) comes to mind, where they have what is called a mechanic's ID. You sit through a quick (10 min) lecture on local security and you're issued the ID. Your company ID goes inside the mechainc's ID. You are limited to your company's operations area and it is good for a limited time.

Do you have any more info on this. I go out of station a lot and have yet to run across this. We always use escorts, it's such a pain in the arse. We could get SIDA badges but often times the badging office is not open and we go on these trips spur of the moment usually at night.

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 4): Yes its amazing that aircrew badges are accepted at every airport. but engineers/mechanics badges are not. We have to apply for a new badge at every airport, take the security test and apply for a police check, but the crew just walk in!!!!!!

Here in the states pilots generally have the SIDA badge for their base only. Their uniform along with displayed company ID lets them walk the ramp at other airports. The same is true for FAs.

DL757Md

Actually crew ID's don't get them anywhere. All it allows them is to go through the security line without a boarding pass. It also allows access to the ramp in the area of their aircarft.

Now a SIDA badge allows a wearer to access areas of the airport in the secure area like the ramp. These are issued by each airport and the badge holder must go through background checks and training to obtain one for each airport.

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 10): Here in the states pilots generally have the SIDA badge for their base only.

If that. I've had 3 bases and only one gave me a SIDA.

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 11): Actually crew ID's don't get them anywhere. All it allows them is to go through the security line without a boarding pass. It also allows access to the ramp in the area of their aircarft.

So true. In PIT we can't even walk between a/c. Swap to the a/c parked longside you? Don't even think about walking over. Deplane, walk up the stairs to the bridge, walk into the terminal get your ID verified, walk down the adjacent bridge, down the stairs and back up into the plane. Rember, over 70% of aviation fatalities are caused by pilots! We are (by far) the #1 threat to aviation security :rollseyes:.

I can't believe you people are talking about this stuff in public.

Don't you ever learn??


If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?... (by MD-90 Nov 30 2000 in Civil Aviation)

Johan: After having been referred to this thread and reviewing its contents, I am partly convinced your site has been used to some extent in the past by persons who may have been involved in the horror of New York City. For that belief I find myself no longer able to participate in this or any other similar forum. I will post a copy of this e-mail on the two forums of yours that I have participated in over the last few years.

My apologies for my withdrawal, but these are strained times in North America, if not the world.

Best Regards,

********
aka "buff"

The above was sent to Johan this morning. Thank you everyone for your kind comments over the years.

Good-Bye,

buff

Quoting Yikes! (Reply 13): I can't believe you people are talking about this stuff in public. Don't you ever learn??

Dont you ever think? Any person whom is a good pick pocket could theive an ID from anywhere... Have i posted a photo or scan of my pass? no... You only know the basic details... nothing on the format, color, location etc etc... Infact if you go to the ID Center at LHR, you'll find large color photographs of all the ID's available to people as illustration.

and MUCH more would have to go into making a fake ID to get airside than you think.

Its not just about having a pass that looks the part. It also needs to WORK as in when you swipe it through a reader, it has to be valid to let you through the door...

[Edited 2006-10-16 02:50:16]

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 4): Yes its amazing that aircrew badges are accepted at every airport. but engineers/mechanics badges are not. We have to apply for a new badge at every airport, take the security test and apply for a police check, but the crew just walk in!!!!!!

Mine is good for every airport in Canada....all areas.



GS

Quoting Yikes! (Reply 13): The above was sent to Johan this morning. Thank you everyone for your kind comments over the years

Attention whore.....did not self- delete incase he wants to come back.

Quoting Yikes! (Reply 13): I can't believe you people are talking about this stuff in public. Don't you ever learn??

I'm sorry you feel the way you do. However the fact is that the information that has been discussed in this thread is widely available from official government sites all over the web. This site hardly "has been used to some extent in the past by persons who may have been involved in the horror of New York City." or any other terror plots past, present, or future.  

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=SIDA+badge&btnG=Google+Search

DL757Md

[Edited 2006-10-16 03:08:19]

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 15): Mine is good for every airport in Canada....all areas

Too bad the FAA/TSA doesn't adopt something like that here in the states.
The usual reply is that each SIDA area has different unique aspects...which is fine. So adopt a standard SIDA card that is obtained after passing the criminal background checks and then have a validation for the airports that you have gone through their individual "differences" course. Would be much cheaper and far less redundant than going through the full SIDA course at each airport.

DL757Md

Canadian wide ones are not the norm here. YOur employer needs to make a special request for one based on needs and even then it is not very often granted.

Funny thing here the forms are the same for all airports. So it is not like you have to pass a different screening for eah airport. In fact before i had a Canada one i moved to a new location and handed my old YEG one in and they printed up a YOW one and gave it to me on the spot.


I mean if you pass a security check at one aiprort you pass it at all...

The rules make no sense sometimes.
GS

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 9): I cannot enter Baggage areas because i'm not required to in my job.

Which employees are granted all area access? Security?

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 15): Mine is good for every airport in Canada....all areas.

Canada longer issues the "Canada Passes" I used to have one and when it expired they would not renew it, and are no longer issuing them, they are slowly getting rid of them as each one expires. And they are no longer good for every airport in Canada to access all areas, only at their issuing airport.

When you travel to work at a different airport than your issuing one all it takes is a phone call to the head office in YOW, and you will be printed up a new pass to access the airport in need.

Quoting Yikes! (Reply 13): I can't believe you people are talking about this stuff in public.

No one has posted ID numbers or access codes, so there isn't any reason to become concerned.

Quoting Yikes! (Reply 13): I can't believe you people are talking about this stuff in public. Don't you ever learn??

Quoting Yikes! (Reply 13): Johan: After having been referred to this thread and reviewing its contents, I am partly convinced your site has been used to some extent in the past by persons who may have been involved in the horror of New York City. For that belief I find myself no longer able to participate in this or any other similar forum. I will post a copy of this e-mail on the two forums of yours that I have participated in over the last few years.

        

Are you kidding me with this? None of this information is particularly hard to come by with other means. No one has discussed anything more than could be gleaned from a simple phone call or two. There are no door codes, specific procedures or even nuclear launch codes in this thread.

Lighten up. It's attitudes like yours that turn the US from "Land of the Free" to "Land of the Gestapo".

Quote: I can't believe you people are talking about this stuff in public. Don't you ever learn??

It's also more complicated than just displaying an ID badge. Even if you are going to go through security with your ID, you have to swipe it and enter a pin number so that a)it'll be clear it's not fake and b)it hasn't been stolen.

Quoting ChewingPlastic (Reply 19): Which employees are granted all area access? Security?

No, not even them. Most work specific areas only and have access only to those areas.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 22): Lighten up. It's attitudes like yours that turn the US from "Land of the Free" to "Land of the Gestapo".

Strong talk...from Greenland. It's free attitudes as displayed by some "in here" that builds the knowledge base of those who shouldn't have the knowledge.

Quoting FlyInBack (Reply 23): It's also more complicated than just displaying an ID badge. Even if you are going to go through security with your ID, you have to swipe it and enter a pin number so that a)it'll be clear it's not fake and b)it hasn't been stolen.

Rubbish. I won't say more than that.

Quoting Yikes! (Reply 25): Rubbish. I won't say more than that.

Do you even OWN an Airport ID?

Quoting Yikes! (Reply 13): I find myself no longer able to participate in this or any other similar forum.

Quoting Yikes! (Reply 13): Good-Bye,

  

You meant until tomorrow right?

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 15): Attention whore.....did not self- delete incase he wants to come back.

  

Quoting Yikes! (Reply 25): Rubbish. I won't say more than that.

  

DL757Md

Quoting FlyInBack (Reply 23): Quote: I can't believe you people are talking about this stuff in public. Don't you ever learn?? It's also more complicated than just displaying an ID badge. Even if you are going to go through security with your ID, you have to swipe it and enter a pin number so that a)it'll be clear it's not fake and b)it hasn't been stolen.

In Germany every airport has it's own ID and you'll have to apply for an annual security background check with the state aviation security department.
Some airports use pin codes for verification, at least one airport I know (and have worked on) uses a fingerprint scanner to verify that the person swiping the ID is the one to whom it belongs.

Jan

Quoting Yikes! (Reply 25): Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 22): Lighten up. It's attitudes like yours that turn the US from "Land of the Free" to "Land of the Gestapo". Strong talk...from Greenland. It's free attitudes as displayed by some "in here" that builds the knowledge base of those who shouldn't have the knowledge.

You can't have it both ways. Either you have a free society in which a minimum of information is restricted, or you have a non-free society. But my point is that I fail to see how any information in this thread can't easily be gleaned from other sources. There is nothing even remotely classified here. There is also the issue of practicality. Do you really think that a terrorist competent enough to succeed relies on information on a web forum?

Then there is the ever present question of who watches the watchers? Do you trust your legislators/rulers enough to give them veto power over information in all cases? The founding fathers implemented checks and balances for this very purpose.

Just to clarify the flag thing, I actually live in the US.

[Edited 2006-10-16 22:40:14]

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 20): Canada longer issues the "Canada Passes" I used to have one and when it expired they would not renew it, and are no longer issuing them, they are slowly getting rid of them as each one expires. And they are no longer good for every airport in Canada to access all areas, only at their issuing airport.

Not true, at least here. In the last 6 mos i have used it in YEG, YOW,YZF, and YFB. Plus I have just re-newed mine. Maybe since i am now QA and part of the emergency response team here at work. I do know when i was in MTCE they told me it would not be re-newed. Dunno....

GS

My ADM pass is only valid in YUL and YMX, and that just because the company I work for operates out of both airports.
The security check is done by the RCMP/TC so I wouldn't have to go through a brand new check (which takes 4 months these days) if I were to be relocated.

S.

Mine is a plastic card glued to a magnet used to open the doors to the airside areas. It has the airport logo, my picture, my name, the company I work for and my job (Flight Line). It opens any door with a magnetic sensor (black wall thing). All the locked doors are on the same system so I can get into any room I might need to. Even though I am a co-op student I still needed a background check as it is an airport after all.

[Edited 2006-10-17 05:21:16]

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 4): Yes its amazing that aircrew badges are accepted at every airport. but engineers/mechanics badges are not.

Just not an accurate statement.

Speaking for US airports and their rules you can not make sweeping statements about how it works. It is very different from one airport to another. I believe this is deliberate and helps maintain security by making it more difficult to guess the local procedures and make those who don't belong stand out - but I am probably being overly generous to airport security folk.

Most of the time mechanics work at one airport only, aircrew go from one airport to another to another to another every working day of their lives. When we change our base we have to change our ID card by going through exactly the same procedure a mechanic does. For the last four years I had to wear a company ID and a separate airport ID from my domicile. The latter was only valid at that airport and did not need to be displayed at other stations.

For cabin crew their company ID gets them through security by means of the local employee security system - OR NOT. Sometimes they must go through with the passengers, sometimes they are permitted to go to the head of the line, sometimes not. After that, they may be onboard the airplane and maybe downstairs in company offices.

For flight deck crew we have the same security privileges as cabin crew. At the aircraft we can be onboard. One pilot may perform a walkaround remaining within the aircraft envelope. Walk over to the next airplane to say hello to a friend and you may just be arrested. We may also be in downstairs company offices below the jetway but that is about it. There are airports where we are not even permitted to preflight our airplane without an escort.

So don't think aircrew have any special privileges because everybody loves us. We are grudgingly allowed only what we must have to do our jobs. After 9/11 it became such a pain in the butt that I could not wait to retire. I have not set foor at an airport since. Don't intend to.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 8): Most uniform items could be purchased from just about any pilot supply shop.

True enough. I even found one in a thrift store.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 8): Company specific insignia could probably found on eBay.

eBay is not supposed to sell current airline insignia. For one thing it may in fact be the property of the airline and "loaned" to the employee. Certainly airlines have legal rights regarding a person's pretending to be an employee. If ANYONE ever sees current airline insignia, wings etc. for sale on eBay I beg you to inform both that site and the TSA. I'm still shopping there for a set of captain's wings for a long-defunct airline where I was employed but did not manage to keep a set of my wings.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 29): Either you have a free society in which a minimum of information is restricted, or you have a non-free society.

Sorry it is not really that simple. It is very much about shades-of-gray. Intelligence work (including the bad guys intel) is all about mining little bits of data and building a mosaic from that. It is rarely about the big secret score. For that reason those of us who do have security sensitive information should exercise some discretion in where and how we disseminate it.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 33): We are grudgingly allowed only what we must have to do our jobs.

Here some security guards think that they can tell us which tools we are allowed to use. A few days ago a colleague went out to buy a can of propane/butane gas mix for our cordless soldering iron (gas burning). The security guards would not let him in at first, only after a longer discussion with their various superriors did they finally let him in.

Jan

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 34): some security guards think that they can tell us which tools we are allowed to use.

Ahh, the European cousins of the security guards who take away my fingernail file then let me go out to the airplane where there is a crash axe hanging on the bulkhead.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 33): Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 29): Either you have a free society in which a minimum of information is restricted, or you have a non-free society. Sorry it is not really that simple. It is very much about shades-of-gray. Intelligence work (including the bad guys intel) is all about mining little bits of data and building a mosaic from that. It is rarely about the big secret score. For that reason those of us who do have security sensitive information should exercise some discretion in where and how we disseminate it.

Quite right. I was trying to make a point and oversimplified. I think you are quite correct in saying that those who have sensitive info should not disseminate it. However, I think this thread is hardly a treasure trove for bad guys.

Out here.
Name,Picture,Designation,Airport coverage,Validity,Employer details,Card ID Number.
regds
MEL

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 35): Ahh, the European cousins of the security guards who take away my fingernail file then let me go out to the airplane where there is a crash axe hanging on the bulkhead.

They tried to take one of our Captains fountain pen of him a few weeks ago, after he kicked off (after all he flies the plane) they saw his point and gave it him back.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 33): One pilot may perform a walkaround remaining within the aircraft envelope. Walk over to the next airplane to say hello to a friend and you may just be arrested.There are airports where we are not even permitted to preflight our airplane without an escort.

I never knew that, I'm so glad I never walked over to my friend on her aircraft the other week. But then again that was in the Greek Isles and pretty much anything goes there.

Some airports have slightly different rules, like last year for example as cabin crew we "officially" were not allowed to go to the aircraft without an engineer or a pilot (or anyone else holding blue clearance).

Phil
FlyingColours

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 38): They tried to take one of our Captains fountain pen of him a few weeks ago, after he kicked off (after all he flies the plane) they saw his point and gave it him back.

This reminds me of the Audi key incident. The Audi key is a little losenge with the metal key part recessed. Press a button and it flips out. Apprently security thought it was like a switchblade and confiscated it. But it's the same length and shape as most other car keys so the argument is a bit silly.

I'm still waiting for this to happen to me. The SAAB key is just a blunt plastic fob but you can take it apart to reveal the metal key for use if the electronics malfunction. I'm sure someday the TSA will argue this is a concealed weapon and cost me $200 in replacement cost...

Quoting SlamClick:

"Intelligence work (including the bad guys intel) is all about mining little bits of data and building a mosaic from that."

I rest my case.

In Canada we have the Red Pass which is the employee pass which lets you go every ware and the blue pass which is the visitor pass, and inside that pass is instructions on where you can and cannot go, aswell as other stuff. Red passes are biometric, at least here in Halifax.

Out here the Colour code varies:-
All Airports + Tarmac - Blue
All Airports + sterile Areas - Red
Local Airport + Sterile Areas -Purple
Terminal Building - Green
Temporary pass - White

regds
MEL

Well Yikes! I know someone who has faked crew IDs to get airside, and he didn't learn it from a.net. That person's been reported to the airline involved and they're taking over the case... (Is that enough to give you a seizure yet?   )

Getting the fake ID card is one thing, getting it to work on swipers is another... these two are not hard to fake... but then again, there are other countermeasures in force which I can tell you, but it might freak you out further... Well, let me give you some examples (some, not necessarily enforced at all airports)... Area restrictions (ie: not a blanket access), certain gateways for certain ID clearances to get to the different areas... Then there's a human link involved as a "gut feel"/intuition screening. Then the possessions screening to get to those areas.

Some airports have a separate list of ID cards with the photos on it and basic descriptions of the person and your access have to be done manually... Again, a fake card won't help... and if you got a crew card, you have to go through the same security procedures as the pax. You'd be amazed to see how little details are available at my ID card and how easily it is forged... But at some airport I have to go through a security gate, go through the pax lines at others, or just go straight past the access gate at another without even being asked a question or swipe it through a machine (well, the card doesn't have that capability)...

There are other unlawful ways to get into a cockpit to fly into the buildings... Try this (courtesy of SlamClick)

You can find these in the airplane if you know where to look. There are plenty of other ways, but then, if I spew this out, I'd be responsible and may be held liable under Martian Law because you'd have a seizure if I, or any other member spew it out. But these items and methods are also used by the crew for self defence.

We all have a responsibility to security as SlamClick pointed out in reply#33. Regardless of whether we're crew/staff or not. Communications is important in security. There really is no point in having the best security measures for access if people don't communicate abnormalities etc.

Quoting Yikes! (Reply 40): Quoting SlamClick: "Intelligence work (including the bad guys intel) is all about mining little bits of data and building a mosaic from that." I rest my case.

Remember, our discussions also provide intelligence work for the good guys to see where the loopholes are. Users of the system often provide the best inputs! Never discussing it provides a greater risk of the loophole in the system to not go observed, and provides even more opportunities to the bad guys to try and exploit it.

Rather than sit on the side and say "How could you talk about this" and claim you'd say good bye to this place (which is IMHO, is your right but rather irresponsible), why not understand it, so next time you're at the airport and you see something that's not right, go to the security and inform them of a potential breach/abnormality and be a responsible part of the community...

Mandala499

Remember Theres also a Hologram.
regds
MEL

Does your airport use a swipe or a magnet sensor?

I know this thread has long wandered from the "Sush! We can't describe what an ID badge looks like in an open fourm!" POV, but I just thought it was worth noting:

In a recent cable television documentary a captain's airline ID (and a portion of his SIDA badge) is shown virtually full screen for several seconds, with not only the general layout visible, but all of the vitals including employee number, signature...

One would think that if the brains at either the airline or the television network felt that this was a security risk some or all of it would have been blurred...or just those shots cut entierly (not like it really adds anything to the story, after all)

As an aside, of all of the information to put on an ID badge, why the senority date?

(Getting off of my soap box)
Lincoln

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 47):

True.One needs to be carefull about certain Disclosures.
regds
MEL

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 47): One would think that if the brains at either the airline or the television network felt that this was a security risk some or all of it would have been blurred...or just those shots cut entierly (not like it really adds anything to the story, after all)

Well, a company crew ID or SIDA badge is supposed be publicly displayed when on duty at the airport. Plus, starting in late 2002 or early 2003, all U.S. airlines had to reissue company IDs to follow a standard layout and contain certain information. The first employees required to get these new IDs were pilots and flight attendants.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 47): As an aside, of all of the information to put on an ID badge, why the senority date?

Standard information. Every airline ID I've had always had my date of hire listed. Plus, it is also for non-rev travel where the standby list is based off of your date of hire.