msnyx
Topic Author
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MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:59 am

In my course of daily cruising the anet database, I came across a bunch of photos of MD-11 cockpits with "escape lines" There is a box above each pilots head that says "escape line, pull." It is in the photos, so it must be for real, but it seems ridiculous to me. What do they do with these ropes, jump out the side windows like Indiana Jones? Have they ever been used? Are they on any other planes?

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Photo © Jorgos Tsambikakis



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Photo © Sam Chui


Any info would be much appreciated. Also, are there any other weird escape contraptions similar to this?
If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there Your hand will guide me
 
RichardPrice
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting MSNYX (Thread starter):
What do they do with these ropes, jump out the side windows like Indiana Jones?

Pretty much, yes. They have friction brakes so you dont just drop.

What were you expecting, a foldout ladder, or a slide?  Smile
 
dl757md
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:07 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):
They have friction brakes so you dont just drop

No, they don't. It is just a rope that is anchored to the structure at the top of the cockpit.

Here's a video of one in use.

DL757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
RichardPrice
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:15 am

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 2):

No, they don't. It is just a rope that is anchored to the structure at the top of the cockpit.

The ones Ive seen in use do have friction brakes to slow the operators descent.
 
ftrguy
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:18 am

We have them on the 707 too. We're supposed to crawl out the window and step down on the pitot tubes on our way down. They would be an absolute last ditch effort to get out of the plane...
 
EMBQA
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting MSNYX (Thread starter):
Are they on any other planes?

Every single commercial aircraft I can think of has them..... even turboprops and regional jets.

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 2):
No, they don't

I've seen a few system that offer friction brakes.... some planes have them

[Edited 2007-02-25 22:22:16]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
aviopic
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:21 am

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 2):
No, they don't. It is just a rope that is anchored to the structure at the top of the cockpit.



Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 3):
The ones Ive seen in use do have friction brakes to slow the operators descent.

Both of you are right.
In some planes you will find ropes and in other friction lines.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
JuniorSpotter
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:24 am

Cockpit Emergency Exit On The 744 (by SK A340 Dec 1 2006 in Tech Ops)
If something can go wrong, it will.
 
CV580Freak
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:26 am

How many crew came out of that FedEx plane in the video  boggled 
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
afay1
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:26 am

As an aside, the Tupolev 134 has escape ropes for the wing emergency exits in the passenger cabin. They are your standard knotted ropes and the emergency card instructions basically instruct the passenger to throw the thing out the hatch should the need arise. They are usually under the seat in the emergency row!
 
EMBQA
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 8):
How many crew came out of that FedEx plane in the video

I counted 6, but there was 7 onboard. 2 Crew....5 Passengers.

[Edited 2007-02-25 22:39:24]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
wjcandee
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting MSNYX (Thread starter):
it seems ridiculous to me



Quoting MSNYX (Thread starter):
any other weird escape contraptions

Time to grow up. The question you pose is interesting. The judgment you make is unnecessary. Ask and learn; better to do so without expressing the uninformed judgment.
 
dl757md
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 3):
The ones Ive seen in use do have friction brakes to slow the operators descent.

OK, I stand corrected. One question. How do the friction devices work? Is one attached to the rope for each escapee or is the device with the rope hauled back into the cockpit for subsequent escapees?

DL757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
EMBQA
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:13 am

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 12):
Is one attached to the rope for each escapee or is the device with the rope hauled back into the cockpit for subsequent escapees?

One for each crew member. This was talked about a few months back and someone linked up a picture of a 747F with the escape rope devices shown in their storage compartment.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
msnyx
Topic Author
Posts: 111
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:33 am

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 8):
How many crew came out of that FedEx plane in the video boggled



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 10):
I counted 6, but there was 7 onboard. 2 Crew....5 Passengers.

It looked like they were throwing bags or packages out as well.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 11):
Time to grow up.

Calm down Sir, it just seems illogical to me. I seem to recall that the KC-135 has a hatch with a ladder right behind the left seat that leads down to a door on the underside of the fuesalage. That, to me, makes sence. Shimmying indiana jones style down the nose of the plane, TO ME, does not. I guess when I become an aviation-wise attorney, this will all make sense to me.
If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there Your hand will guide me
 
corey07850
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:46 am

Quoting MSNYX (Reply 14):

It looked like they were throwing bags or packages out as well.

Yeah apparently one of the criticisms were that some of the crew were trying to save their personal items instead of simply exiting the plane, putting themselves at an unnecesary risk
 
EMBQA
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:49 am

Quoting MSNYX (Reply 14):
Calm down Sir, it just seems illogical to me.

When the plane is on fire and its your only way out and your 30 feet in the air....... you'll see the sense in it.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
msnyx
Topic Author
Posts: 111
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:27 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 16):
When the plane is on fire and its your only way out and your 30 feet in the air....... you'll see the sense in it.



Quoting MSNYX (Reply 14):
the KC-135 has a hatch with a ladder right behind the left seat that leads down to a door on the underside of the fuesalage. That, to me, makes sence.
If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there Your hand will guide me
 
zanl188
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:42 am

Quoting MSNYX (Reply 17):
the KC-135 has a hatch with a ladder right behind the left seat that leads down to a door on the underside of the fuesalage. That, to me, makes sence.

The KC-135 also has opening cockpit windows and, I believe, an escape rope. The idea is to have at least 2 ways to get out of the aircraft.

Having used the KC-135s ladder and hatch I can tell you that it wouldn't take much to make it unusable in an emergency. A burning puddle of fuel is all it would take and I'd be looking for another escape route.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
MD11Fanatic
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:35 am

For those of you who were curious as I was where this burning MD-10-10 comes from, it's a FEDEX MD-10-10 from 2003, crashed at Memphis after a landing gear failure.

There were seven people on board, and one was hospitalized with broken bones. I believe that person was the FIRST person out of the aircraft, as he seemed to let go just a bit too early.

Photos available here:

http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/n364fe/photo.shtml
 
MD11FR8Jock
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:46 pm

Unfortunalty it was not a landing gear failure. It was a VERY windy day (30 kts +) and the pf who was on a check ride landed very very hard causing the right main carriage to collapse. Fortunatly they all got out safe. And yes they tried to save some personal items which is a big mistake when the ac is fully engulfed in flames. As to why there is only a rope as apposed to a slide it is one of many different ways to get out of the ac. When all your other options are blocked and you are looking at jumping 25+ FT the rope becomes a very logical "extra" method of escape. And to add my two cents i hope to hell i never have to use one but glad its there!!
 
L-188
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:51 pm

Wasn't there a Pan-Am 747 that got hijacked on the ground back in the 1980's that the flight crew went ahead and went out the window and down the ropes to ground the aircraft.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:54 pm

Quoting MSNYX (Thread starter):
Are they on any other planes

Common on the B737s & B757s too.
The Rope held fixed to the ceiling of the Cockpit.The unattached Rope end is thrown overboard & The Crew slides out of the #2 Window.They need to watch out for the Hot pitot static tubes on the Classics.The NGs Pitot probes are more Ahead.
By supporting the rope the crew member gradually lowers himself.

On B752 Freighters there are in addition to these Escape Harness,Spring loaded Escape ropes located in the Supernumery area [SNY] that gradually lower the Crew member to the surface.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
474218
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:23 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 21):
Wasn't there a Pan-Am 747 that got hijacked on the ground back in the 1980's that the flight crew went ahead and went out the window and down the ropes to ground the aircraft.

The 747 does not have any flight station windows that open. The 747 and the L-1011 have an escape hatch located in the flight station ceiling. There are escape handles located next to the hatch. To use them you hold on to a handle and slide down the side of the fuselage. A torque break in the handle that controls your rate of decent. The DC-10, MD-11 have flight station windows that open and I assume by looking at the video use a simple rope, rather than the escape handles.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:24 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):
Quoting MSNYX (Thread starter):
What do they do with these ropes, jump out the side windows like Indiana Jones?

Pretty much, yes. They have friction brakes so you dont just drop.

What were you expecting, a foldout ladder, or a slide?



Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 3):
Quoting Dl757md (Reply 2):

No, they don't. It is just a rope that is anchored to the structure at the top of the cockpit.


The ones Ive seen in use do have friction brakes to slow the operators descent.

The MD-11 uses standard ropes (actually a kind of webbing hose, which has plastic balls sewn in about every foot or so to provide a better grip). No fricion devices.

Jan
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n685fe
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:06 pm

Here are the findings for FDX647 at the NTSB site, http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=DCA04MA011&rpt=fa


8) The f/o did not properly apply ctrl wheel and rudder inputs to align the airplane with the runway centerline or apply appropriate back pressure on the control column to arrest the airplane's rate of descent before touchdown; as a result, the airplane touched down extremely hard while still in a crab.

9) The captain, who was conducting a line check of the first officer, did not adequately monitor the first officer's performance during the final stages of the approach and landing at MEM and failed to take or initiate corrective action to prevent the accident.

10) The excessive vertical and lateral forces on the right main landing gear during the landing exceeded those that the gear was designed to withstand and resulted in the fracture of the outer cylinder and the collapse of the right main landing gear.

Here is one the of the reasons they ended up using the rope.

12) The nonrevenue FedEx pilot who opened the L1 emergency exit mistakenly pulled both the manual inflation and slide/raft disengage handles because he was not sufficiently familiar with their operation, thus separating the slide/raft from the L1 doorsill.

Reference to their luggage.

15) Most of the FedEx pilots on board the accident airplane showed poor judgment and exposed themselves to unnecessary risk when they delayed their evacuation from a burning airplane to salvage personal items.

And MEM ATC ground controller took a hit too for delaying Aircraft Rescue and Firefighting response vehicles by not giving them priority over other nonemergency airport traffic.
psp. lead by example
 
CaptOveur
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:53 pm

Quoting N685FE (Reply 25):
Most of the FedEx pilots on board the accident airplane showed poor judgment and exposed themselves to unnecessary risk when they delayed their evacuation from a burning airplane to salvage personal items.

Having worked a job where I had to buy at least some of my uniforms and equipment I can totally understand where the crew was coming from.. They all got out so I don't see the error in judgement. They were in the airplane so they probably had a pretty good idea how bad the fire was.

Yes, I know the by the book assesment shows poor judgement, but those assesments are easy to make in a cubicle at the NTSB after the fact.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
MD11Fanatic
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 26):

I've never been in a plane accident but I have been in real-life fire situations (such as at work) and the instructions are to leave the building IMMEDIATELY when there's a fire and what-not, but who's going to replace some highly sensitive stuff if it gets burned up? I'll take the risk and grab my stuff before exiting.
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:57 am

I''ve never asked one of those guys who I know but if I were to think of what was going on at the time I would say that with that many guys and only one rope to use(the other was on the fire side) they were standing there waiting to get to the rope and someone thought they might as well do something and save the bags, after all they are in the foyer where the j/s were. If they took time to save the catering ..well that's another story.  rotfl 
 
MD11Fanatic
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:11 am

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 28):

I've got a question for you. When a PF is involved and a contributing factor to a crash like this, how detrimental is it to their career? Is this a career ending event or is there any hope of recovery from this?
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: MD-11 Cockpit Escape Ropes?!?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:59 pm

Quoting MD11Fanatic (Reply 29):
Is this a career ending event

I cetainly won''t go into all the details here but yes

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