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UAL747
Topic Author
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Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:26 am

Haven't seen this discussed in a while, but the "America's Worst Airlines" thread got me thinking with Southwest being the best in Performance.

Every time I've flown Southwest, it's like trying to pack em an and get the hell out of dodge from an "impending hurricane or nuclear bomb" when you fly. Which is why I guess they are always great in terms of passenger ratings. But, man, those pilots seem to taxi SO damn fast that you think you are on takeoff roll while taxiing to the runway. Another thing about their fast taxis is that, since they mostly fly to second tier airports, I guess there aren't as many ground traffic slowdowns and delays or aircraft in their way.

What are Southwest's policies on taxi speed? I know airports have certain regulations in regards to taxi speed, but Southwest seems to really burn some rubber getting to the runways.

On a side note, there is nothing more fantastic seeing a huge heavy aircraft like a 777 or 744 taxiing at what seems to be a MAJESTICALLY slow speed all the way to the runway. They seem to creep along like a grand old ocean liner. I love watching those birds taxi.

So what is the general opinion on this topic?

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
2H4
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
huge heavy aircraft like a 777 or 744 taxiing at what seems to be a MAJESTICALLY slow speed all the way to the runway. They seem to creep along like a grand old ocean liner.

The tires on heavies can become extremely hot during long periods of taxiing. Although heat buildup also occurs on the tires of lighter aircraft (like 737s), it builds up much more rapidly when subjected to the enormous weight of 747s, 777s, etc. This is one of the reasons that heavies taxi so much slower than smaller aircraft.

2H4

Intentionally Left Blank
 
flyf15
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
On a side note, there is nothing more fantastic seeing a huge heavy aircraft like a 777 or 744 taxiing at what seems to be a MAJESTICALLY slow speed all the way to the runway. They seem to creep along like a grand old ocean liner. I love watching those birds taxi.

As I understand it, often aircraft going overseas have very specific departure times they must meet to match up with their space in line in the overseas tracks. They get them far enough after push to ensure they won't miss it... so often they're running early and have time to kill before they're allowed to takeoff.
 
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:59 am

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
What are Southwest's policies on taxi speed?

V1 minus 10 knots.  Wink
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
SpdBrdConcorde
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:05 am

FYI...

FLL speed traps WN planes coz they are notorious for taxing at what seems like +20 kts...
 
HT
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:07 am

Most times you rely on your impression of taxiing speed, but on one occasion I was able to monitor the speed of a B6 A320 having landed at LAS inbound from LGB: The indication on my private screen read "39 mph" down the taxiway - not on a high-speed turn-off, but in opposite direction of runway usage.

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
but Southwest seems to really burn some rubber getting to the runways.

Having flown WN on 5 sectors in the last 7 days at airports with no queues at departure (LAX, ELP, DAL, LBB), I have to say not only WN's taxi to the runway was fast, but also taxi to the gate after landing was fast..

Having landed at ELP inbound from DAL required only a short taxiing. In the final stages of rolling, one engine got shut down. Reached parking position. Shut down second engine.
Such behaviour have I found in Europe only when flying onboard a Turboprop.
Actually, also the approach into DAL from LBB reminded me of flying on a Turboprop rather on a B733, with the style of aligning with the approach path at last minute; less than 60 seconds from touchdown I still could see the field to the left.
Either these pilots are ex-military (fighter) or have had their share flying Props ... (just my guess).
Still I like / enjoy that style of flying rather than boring straight out departures / straight in approaches.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
LaminarFlow
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:19 am

Quoting HT (Reply 5):
In the final stages of rolling, one engine got shut down. Reached parking position. Shut down second engine.
Such behaviour have I found in Europe only when flying onboard a Turboprop.

This saves millions in fuel costs, as most North American airlines have discovered.
 
Mir
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:38 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 2):
As I understand it, often aircraft going overseas have very specific departure times they must meet to match up with their space in line in the overseas tracks. They get them far enough after push to ensure they won't miss it... so often they're running early and have time to kill before they're allowed to takeoff.

I've never heard that. They do have more restrictive taxi speed limits because of weight (particularly in turns so as to not stress the gear), however.

As far as WN goes, as long as they aren't busting the manufacturer's speed limits, they can taxi as fast as they like.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
nema
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:42 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 1):
This is one of the reasons that heavies taxi so much slower than smaller aircraft

Never knew that! Interesting point that answers a few questions, but i am not sure if the heat created in these tyres at slow speed taxi is great enough to warrant any concern, particularly when the tyres design must make it insignificant against the heat created in landing or take off. Heat in tyres after all is generally better i would have thought than cold due to suppleness.
There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
 
iflyatldl
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:48 am

I can remember when I flying for DL on 737-200's, often either the Captain or First would use Thrust Reversers on taxi during the summer to brake instead of actually braking. I was told it was to keep the brakes cool, so on lift-off, the brakes wouldn't be over-heated and reducing risk of fire. I never questioned it, I remember as a kid a SR Caravelle crashed because of over-heated brakes. Of course, they didn't realize they had the brakes partially engaged, (I think after trying to blow fog away) thus starting the fire. But still-there's a lot of force and wear, so I could see the logic. Not trying to get of topic...  Smile
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
Indy
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:48 am

I was flying YX from MCI to FLL. We were late getting out of MCI. It was funny. I've never seen a plane board that fast before. It seems (may have been longer) that 15 minutes passed from the time we were allowed to start boarding until the plane started to push back. And I've never seen a plane taxi like that before. The plane made a pretty hard left on one of the taxiways. Hard enough that if you had stuff on your tray it would certainly slide off. It was rather amusing. The boarding process started some 20 to 30 minutes late. We arrived early.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
futurecaptain
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:52 am

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
since they mostly fly to second tier airports,

They do?

Signed,
PHX, LAX, SFO, DEN, LAS, PHL, SEA.  Smile


Anyway, regarding the taxi speed.
If you have a takeoff clearance and are ready to go then there is no reason to take your time. Get flying.
AirSO. ASpaceO. ASOnline. ASO.com ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO.
 
Mike89406
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:53 am

Quoting HT (Reply 5):
Either these pilots are ex-military (fighter) or have had their share flying Props

I've been told that a good number of WN pilots are ex-Naval Aviators don't know how true that is.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:56 am

Quoting HT (Reply 5):
I have to say not only WN's taxi to the runway was fast, but also taxi to the gate after landing was fast..

Oh man, try marshalling one in while he is racing down the J-line.

Quoting HT (Reply 5):
Having landed at ELP inbound from DAL required only a short taxiing. In the final stages of rolling, one engine got shut down. Reached parking position. Shut down second engine.

Yeah, they often shut #2 down on their way in to the gate. Engine #1 gets shut down either immediately after they stop, or after ground power is plugged in if "gate services" are in effect.

I'll never forget, I was marshalling a plane in to the gate and the Captain actually cut both engines a few feet shy of the stop mark and just rolled in until I brought him to a stop. I was definetly feeling the pressue at that point thinking "oh sh*t, don't stop him short of the mark". LOL
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Mir
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting NEMA (Reply 8):
am not sure if the heat created in these tyres at slow speed taxi is great enough to warrant any concern, particularly when the tyres design must make it insignificant against the heat created in landing or take off.

Indeed, the heat generated during taxi is insignificant compared to that generated during landing. However, keep in mind that the brakes must be able to withstand the immense heat of a rejected takeoff, and their efffectiveness is compromised if they're too hot as a result of taxiing.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
iflyatldl
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:05 pm

Actually, when PI(Piedmont) was flying as a stand-alone, they had some pretty quick taxi's as I remember. And BOOM! You're on your way. Of course when your serving AVL, ROA, LEX, SDF and TRI for example; taxi times aren't exactly an issue.  Wink That was twenty years ago, but...
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
Max Q
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:56 pm

Cowboys.

If you look at their safety record over the last few years (two overruns with one fatality) it illustrates the 'go fast' mentality
of these guys.

Time for them to grow up and slow down. Aircraft are made to go fast.....in the AIR !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:03 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 16):
If you look at their safety record over the last few years (two overruns with one fatality) it illustrates the 'go fast' mentality
of these guys.

Because both those incidents involved the aircraft going off taxiways. Riiiight.  Yeah sure

When I was on WN last Saturday, the speeds didn't seem too extreme.

Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 12):
I've been told that a good number of WN pilots are ex-Naval Aviators don't know how true that is.

Maybe it was just Kirby Chambliss at the controls.
I love ASO!
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:27 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 16):
If you look at their safety record over the last few years (two overruns with one fatality) it illustrates the 'go fast' mentality
of these guys.

Time for them to grow up and slow down. Aircraft are made to go fast.....in the AIR !

They have taken operational steps to deal with those 2 accidents.....and, just an FYI from a controller who handles plenty of Southwest flights a day, they are not all that fast in the air nor have they ever been, except for the -200 days.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
BAE146QT
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:08 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 1):
Although heat buildup also occurs on the tires of lighter aircraft (like 737s), it builds up much more rapidly when subjected to the enormous weight of 747s, 777s, etc.

Just a guess, but the tyres on a heavy are going to be somewhat larger than on a little bird, too. That would mean a greater volume to surface area ratio, making heat dissipation more difficult.
Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 2):
As I understand it, often aircraft going overseas have very specific departure times they must meet to match up with their space in line in the overseas tracks.

I've neverseen this as a problem. I've been late and early on N.A. flts with no problems. If it looks like 2 jets are "coasting out" over the same waypoint too close together ATC (Gander/Shanwick) will issue a RTA (Required Time of Arrival) to one or both to insure spacing. We have a number of N.A. flts that dept close together and I've this a number of times.

Quoting NEMA (Reply 8):
but i am not sure if the heat created in these tyres at slow speed taxi is great enough to warrant any concern, particularly when the tyres design must make it insignificant against the heat created in landing or take off.

You don't want heat build up in the brakes because of reduced braking performance in the event of a RTO.
 
SPREE34
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting SPDbRDcoNCORDE (Reply 4):
FLL speed traps WN planes

What do you mean?
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting HT (Reply 5):
Having landed at ELP inbound from DAL required only a short taxiing. In the final stages of rolling, one engine got shut down. Reached parking position. Shut down second engine.

Your flight probably landed on Runway 26L and was at one of the gates on the North side of the terminal  Wink

What's really funny is when 8R is active at ELP, and your flight is at one of the north gates on the B side of the terminal at ELP, I think your taxi distance is only about 800 feet  Smile I've heard BUR has a really similar setup.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
737tanker
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:05 am

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
What are Southwest's policies on taxi speed?

Per the SWA Flight Operations Manual (which is approved by the FAA) normal taxi speed is 20 knots or less. If on a straight taxiway the FOM authorizes a max speed of 30 knots. These are max speeds for normal operations and slower speeds will be used as required by weather and other conditions.
As far as shutting down the #2 engine prior to the #1 the procedure at SWA is at stations that have Gate Services (which is just about all) the #2 engine will be shut down prior to entering the safety zone, but no less than 1 minute (preferably 3) after landing. The #1 engine will be shut down after the aircraft is on ground power.
 
Boston92
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:56 am

On multiple occasions, while flying United, we have been asked to get out of the way so a WN bird can pass. The ATC went just like this:

Tower: United 819, you are gonna have to take the left turn onto Tengo, because the Southwest plane behind is complaining about your taxi speed. Once it passes, you can go as slow as you want."

We get outa the way onto a pararrel taxiway and the WN bird (with those red hubcaps) goes flying (no pun) by.
 
phxplanes
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 13):
I'll never forget, I was marshalling a plane in to the gate and the Captain actually cut both engines a few feet shy of the stop mark and just rolled in until I brought him to a stop. I was definetly feeling the pressue at that point thinking "oh sh*t, don't stop him short of the mark". LOL

I saw that happen on a 757, it was weird I thought something was wrong at first.
 
musapapaya
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:14 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 24):
Tower: United 819, you are gonna have to take the left turn onto Tengo, because the Southwest plane behind is complaining about your taxi speed. Once it passes, you can go as slow as you want."

This is rude of Southwest.... I dont think the united would be going THAT slow....
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:07 am

Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 26):
I dont think the united would be going THAT slow....

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl  You'd be surprised!
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
SPREE34
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:21 am

Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 26):
This is rude of Southwest.... I dont think the united would be going THAT slow....

Not at all rude. Do you hang out in the right lane on the M25?

Probably happened when UA was doing a job action.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
737tdi
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:35 pm

Awesome little post: I do know this as mechanics, we are limited to 20kts as indicated by the I.R.S.. We can only exceed this if directed by the tower to expedite.

737tdi
 
Boston92
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:45 pm

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 29):
I.R.S

The IRS is everywhere these days, huh?
 
LASoctoberB6
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:11 pm

most of the WN aircraft i see here (when told) just have their engines half way (or thats what it seems like..) and blast off from the runway... pretty cool
[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
 
HT
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:33 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 22):
Having landed at ELP inbound from DAL required only a short taxiing. In the final stages of rolling, one engine got shut down. Reached parking position. Shut down second engine.
Your flight probably landed on Runway 26L and was at one of the gates on the North side of the terminal  

IIRC, we landed on Runway 22, but the gate number I cannot recall ...
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
737tdi
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:44 pm

I see no smiley face or "just kidding". I'll assume you are. I.R.S.=Inertial Reference System, on a 737-7 it's ADIRS, controlled by an ADIRU "Air Data Inertial Reference Unit" 2 actually. But yea the IRS as in USGovt. can be a bit painful. Arghhh.

737tdi
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:11 pm

Quoting NEMA (Reply 8):
Never knew that! Interesting point that answers a few questions, but i am not sure if the heat created in these tyres at slow speed taxi is great enough to warrant any concern, particularly when the tyres design must make it insignificant against the heat created in landing or take off. Heat in tyres after all is generally better i would have thought than cold due to suppleness.

Heat generated in the tires during taxi is a huge deal. Before they started filling the tires with nitrogen, you could blow up a tire that way. Don't forget that the aircraft is far heavier and the process is far longer during taxi out than it is during takeoff or landing.

Heat from landing is much more significant for the brakes than the tires.

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
Indeed, the heat generated during taxi is insignificant compared to that generated during landing.

That's true, but the heat going to the tires is very different, and a lot higher, during taxi than during landing. From the tires' point of view, landing is short and light. Taxi out is long and heavy. The brakes don't care nearly as much about taxi unless you're riding them.

Tom.
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:34 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 22):
What's really funny is when 8R is active at ELP, and your flight is at one of the north gates on the B side of the terminal at ELP, I think your taxi distance is only about 800 feet I've heard BUR has a really similar setup.

ABQ was nice back in the day when the pilots would touch down as soon as the dirt had some pavement under it, then grab all the reverser possible. Then if they got it right and didn't ride the brakes and reverser TOO hard, they got a single left turn and a straight drive into the gate. If they overused it they would have to taxi down the runway or taxiway TO the terminal in the direction of landing. Of course now they seem to all land way the hell long and coast till they get most of the way through the military side so we can all enjoy a nice long couple mile trek back to the terminal. Oh well, fighter pilots flying the sports car of the sky (732) could only last so long.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 38):
Heat generated in the tires during taxi is a huge deal. Before they started filling the tires with nitrogen, you could blow up a tire that way. Don't forget that the aircraft is far heavier and the process is far longer during taxi out than it is during takeoff or landing.

Don't forget too that the faster you go, the more likely you are going to get un damped osculations. AKA pogo-sticking. For a good example look at a tractor heading down the highway at a good rate of speed and notice how the driver is altitude is a sin wave. Apply that to 1/2 a million pounds or more of widebody jet with wings that hang off for hundreds of feet and said oscillations can be very very expensive. Even minor stuff that won't damage the plane will put huge amounts of heat in the tires as it flexes the sidewalls constantly in addition to the usual sidewall flex due to rotation.
 
nema
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:51 pm

Found this an interesting thread covering a slightly different aspect of interest.
There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 16):
Cowboys.

If you look at their safety record over the last few years (two overruns with one fatality) it illustrates the 'go fast' mentality of these guys.

Time for them to grow up and slow down. Aircraft are made to go fast.....in the AIR !

MaxQ,

Speaking of safety records, exactly what would 5 hull losses within a 5 year period "illustrate" to everyone?

My point here isn't to embarass your fine airline and all my good friends there at COA, but to demonstrate that simple generalizations such as the one you made above are just that--simple, and general, and it's a real stretch to apply it to 100% of a group. It'd be about like saying "all of COA's pilots are real jerks" when the truth is that just some of them are.

Maybe it's just me, but I always thought that it was proper airline decorum to take the "if you can't say anything nice about a competitor, then don't say anything at all" stance, especially where safety-related items were concerned. Admittedly, I've made an exception and violated my own rule here, but I had to respectfully take issue with your comments.

Date: 14 JUN 2000
Type: McDonnell Douglas DC-9-81
Operator: Continental Air Lines
Registration: N16884
Airplane damage: Written off

Date: 07 OCT 1998
Type: Boeing 727-224
Operator: Continental Air Lines
Registration: N66734
Airplane damage: Written off

Date: 16 SEP 1998
Type: Boeing 737-524
Operator: Continental Airlines
Registration: N20643
Airplane damage: Written off

Date: 07 JUN 1997
Type: Boeing 727-227
Operator: Continental Air Lines
Registration: N571PE
Airplane damage: Written off

Date: 19 FEB 1996
Type: McDonnell Douglas DC-9-32
Operator: Continental Airlines
Registration: N10556
Airplane damage: Written off
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
DashTrash
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:48 am

I've heard controllers threaten to pull someone out of line, but never seen or heard it done.
 
2H4
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:51 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 16):
Cowboys.

If you mean to imply WN pilots fly carelessly or in a less-than-disciplined manner, you've got a lot to learn about them, I assure you.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 16):
If you look at their safety record over the last few years (two overruns with one fatality) it illustrates the 'go fast' mentality of these guys.

If you look at their safety record over the last few decades (probably more cycles than any other airline, and one fatality), it illustrates how misguided your above statement truly is.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 16):
Time for them to grow up and slow down.

....based on what data, exactly? Feel free to humor us all and provide sources....this will be fun.  biggrin 


2H4

Intentionally Left Blank
 
KELPkid
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RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:15 am

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 47):
I've heard controllers threaten to pull someone out of line, but never seen or heard it done.

I did something once to tick off a controller (on the ground) at HIO once (and we had an IFR clearance), so the controller had us taxi to Runway 30 at A6 (the normal small aircraft takeoff intersection), while they had everyone else take off at A7 (the very end of the runway), making us wait about 20 minutes. I forgot what I did to p*ss in the controller's Wheaties that morning...
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
SPREE34
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Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 47):
I've heard controllers threaten to pull someone out of line, but never seen or heard it done.

I pulled on out of an airborn line one time. He wouldn't accept speed assignments. You can't let one slam a string of 30. it will create a workload and saftey issue.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4139
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:39 am

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 47):
I've heard controllers threaten to pull someone out of line, but never seen or heard it done.

It happens all the time, especially on final approach when someone for whatever reason doesn't fly the speed assigned and they acknowledged, out they come.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 49):
based on what data, exactly? Feel free to humor us all and provide sources....this will be fun.

Yes please do Max Q, I'm sure many here like myself want your knowledge of the topic.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:40 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 16):
Cowboys.

If you look at their safety record over the last few years (two overruns with one fatality) it illustrates the 'go fast' mentality
of these guys.

Time for them to grow up and slow down. Aircraft are made to go fast.....in the AIR !

Thanks, Mr. Continental captain, for shattering the image of professionalism that I had for captains from your carrier. You know, I had a neighbor growing up who was a CO 727 captain, the guy who took me up into the cockpit when my folks and I were on a flight he happened to be captaining when I was seven, and spurred my own interest in aviation and the airlines. He never disparaged other air carriers or their crew, even a certain cheeky carrier who then was flying around pea green, harvest gold, and orange 737's around my home state of Texas...
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
Max Q
Posts: 8242
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:49 pm

Actually 'Boston92' I never said I worked for CAL for twenty seven years.I had several aviation jobs before starting with Continental in 1987.I paid my dues like most of my peers.

Most of us have to accumulate significant experience before being hired by a major !

Less so today than when I started.

'OpnlGuy'

How about revealing how many of those 'hull write off's) were due to maintenance actions.

At least two of those aircraft (one MD 80 and one 727) were destroyed by being taxied into buildings by mechanics.

'Kelpkid'

A shame you have your aviation 'images' shattered so easily, what I said is a fact.

I stand by my assertion although I am sure there are exceptions, there is a 'Cowboy' mentality at Swa and I do not think it has changed.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:32 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 54):
How about revealing how many of those 'hull write off's) were due to maintenance actions.

At least two of those aircraft (one MD 80 and one 727) were destroyed by being taxied into buildings by mechanics

OK, chalk 2 up for the MX folks, but that still leaves 3 for your guys, or were you hoping that nobody would notice your attempt to duck the issue?

Bottomline is that, irrespective of whodunnit, your outfit lost 5 in 5 years. I'll say it again, should those 5-in-5 "illustrate" some stupid and generalized statement that all COA MX folks and all COA pilots are cowboys, or are otherwise incompetent?

Of course not---each accident chain has its own links, yet here you are making a blanket statement and attributing two accidents to something you're speculating about.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 54):
I stand by my assertion although I am sure there are exceptions, there is a 'Cowboy' mentality at Swa and I do not think it has changed.

..at least some partial accuracy in one your statements...

Radar services terminated, squawk 1200, good day...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:27 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 54):
A shame you have your aviation 'images' shattered so easily, what I said is a fact.

Is it, now? How many planes has WN lost to a your so-called "Cowboy" mentality, which is about as cliche as J.R. Ewing himself (i.e. a Hollywood ideal that never existed?). As a native Texan, I take offense to that stereotype.

Let's analyze the facts here. The first hull loss WN had (29 years after receiving their certificate) was due to a crew not abandoning a (visual) approach after accepting an ATC clearance that they probably shouldn't have, and landing long and fast on a (relatively speaking) short runway as a result...I believe fatigue from a long duty day played into that one. The second one came (most likely from in my estimation  Wink ) thrust reversers that didn't deploy in the heat of the moment (maybe a captain who couldn't move the throttle levers to the proper detent...). Had the t/r's deployed in time, then everything would have happened according to plan. And the FAA even certified the 737-700 allowing for thrust reversers in the stopping distance calculations (and making it a unique bird in that respect...).
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4139
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:37 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 53):
Thanks, Mr. Continental captain, for shattering the image of professionalism that I had for captains from your carrier.

I know you aren't going to lump all CO pilots into this unprofessional group that a few might actually be part of, the number of CO pilots I know that might read those type of comments from their peer would simply shake their heads in disbelief, maybe a comment about wishing to weed those type from the ranks and move on.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 54):
I stand by my assertion although I am sure there are exceptions, there is a 'Cowboy' mentality at Swa and I do not think it has changed.

My experience with Southwest tells me you have it backwards these days. Sure 20 years ago I'd have agreed with you, but ya know what, I'd have been also inclined to say the exact same thing about another airline flying another type of twin engine jet....but in 2007 that mentality has certainly been reversed and the exception is the cowboy mentality among an entire industry, whether you care to believe it or not, tis true at both that other airline flying twin engine jets some 20 years ago as well as Southwest.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:48 pm

Hey Max, remember this question?

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 49):
Quoting Max Q (Reply 16):
Time for them to grow up and slow down.

....based on what data, exactly? Feel free to humor us all and provide sources

Let's hear it, sir. I'm sure you don't want to throw accusations around without backing them up with evidence.

I'll even rephrase the question for you:

Why, specifically, is it time for Southwest pilots to "grow up and slow down?"


2H4

Intentionally Left Blank
 
ex52tech
Posts: 553
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:28 pm

RE: Southwest's Speedy Taxis And Takeoffs

Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:47 am

I have my popcorn and my soda, and I'm waiting for the bar fight scene. Like in a John Wayne movie.  box 

To think I got banned for three days for expressing some opinions, from experience, about Airbus aircraft.  cheeky 

Ok guys, group hug.  duck 

Ex.
"Saddest thing I ever witnessed....an airplane being scrapped"

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