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747400sp
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What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:48 am

I know the An 225 is the heaviest jet ever built, and I have a feeling that the A380 is the second. Seeing that the take off weight of a 747 400ER is heavier than an An 124 and C-5, I would think the Boeing 747 is the third. So what are the top four heaviest jets ever built?
 
speedracer1407
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:41 am

Well it seems like you've already mentioned the top four, assuming you mean MTOW. Unless I'm forgetting something, the AN 124 would be the 4th.

I suppose it's worth mentioning that for a while, the AN-22 was the biggest, heaviest thing flying 550,000 something lb MTOW in 1965. Even if it didn't hold any records, it'd still be the most evil-looking large turboprop ever made.


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rwessel
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:23 am

Hmmm... How about the KM ekranoplan (aka the Caspian Sea Monster), with a MTOW of 1,080,000lbs. That would put it in the number three slot, as near as I can tell...

I couldn't find an airliners.net photo, but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekranoplan


ed: typo

[Edited 2007-11-03 00:26:49]
 
tf39
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:38 am

From an empty weight perspective, looks like the A380-800 takes first at 611K lbs. I thought the AN-225 would be close but when looking at its empty weight per wiki of 385K lbs, it's lighter than the 747! I'm assuming this is a mistake or unknown since it's the same reported empty weight as the AN-124. In any case though I'll have to give my vote to the A380 since it is a production aircraft and not a purpose-built aircraft like the AN-225. Just wait until it's stretched.

Quoting Speedracer1407 (Reply 1):
I suppose it's worth mentioning that for a while, the AN-22 was the biggest, heaviest thing flying 550,000 something lb MTOW in 1965. Even if it didn't hold any records, it'd still be the most evil-looking large turboprop ever made.

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Starlionblue
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting Speedracer1407 (Reply 1):
I suppose it's worth mentioning that for a while, the AN-22 was the biggest, heaviest thing flying 550,000 something lb MTOW in 1965. Even if it didn't hold any records, it'd still be the most evil-looking large turboprop ever made.

Sure it held records. Still does. Heaviest turboprop.

Quoting Rwessel (Reply 2):
Hmmm... How about the KM ekranoplan (aka the Caspian Sea Monster), with a MTOW of 1,080,000lbs. That would put it in the number three slot, as near as I can tell...

Well, it can't fly out of ground effect so I don't know if it counts.  Wink
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
rwessel
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:24 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
Well, it can't fly out of ground effect so I don't know if it counts.

While I don't have hard numbers (being a one-off, hard data is somewhat sparse), it almost certainly could.

The somewhat smaller Lun (a missile carrier with a MTOW of "only" 882,000lbs) had a max ceiling of about 24,000ft, although that's with all eight engines at full howl, so range would be drastically less than at normal cruise (~10ft). That altitude would be exceptional for the role the Lun's were intended for, but flight at ~1500ft *was* part of the normal operating envelope, so that it could search for targets.
 
cobra27
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:41 am

Future A380-900 will be the heaviest if it would be build. For know there are A380, An-225, Ekranoplan and An-124.
When 748 gets out it will cancel out an-124
 
timz
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:28 am

MTOW or empty weight aren't the only possible criteria. Isn't the C5 allowed to be refuelled in the air to a weight heavier than its MTOW, and heavier than the 747-400ER?

Maybe the same is true for the E-4?
 
dw747400
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:00 am

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 6):
When 748 gets out it will cancel out an-124

I believe the 744ER already beats it, 910k to 893K.
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:33 am

Quoting Speedracer1407 (Reply 1):
I suppose it's worth mentioning that for a while, the AN-22 was the biggest,

I apologize for the off topic, but what's the deal with two props at each engine. Do they counter-rotate? If yes, what's the reason for it?
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MD-90
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting Rwessel (Reply 5):
The somewhat smaller Lun (a missile carrier with a MTOW of "only" 882,000lbs) had a max ceiling of about 24,000ft,

That would be an amazing sight. A Lun at FL240? With those low aspect ratio wings?
 
sovietjet
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 9):
I apologize for the off topic, but what's the deal with two props at each engine. Do they counter-rotate? If yes, what's the reason for it?

Yes they counter rotate. The engines are too powerful for one propeller, if one propeller was fitted, the blades would have to reach to the ground in order for the tips not to go supersonic due to the power of the engines. Therefore it is better to utilize the power using two counter rotating props.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:14 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 9):
Do they counter-rotate? If yes, what's the reason for it?

Sovietjet is dead-on in Reply 11 as to why there are two props.

They counter-rotate, as opposed to having two props going the same direction because both props are more efficient that way, since one prop serves, effectively, as a stator for the other. Designed properly, you get a nearly swirl-free flow coming off the pair, which is more efficient. As as side benefit, you also get very low torque transmitted to the aircraft.

Tom.
 
rwessel
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:53 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 10):
That would be an amazing sight. A Lun at FL240? With those low aspect ratio wings?

While its aspect ratio is low, its wing loading isn’t all that extreme. While I don’t have an exact figure for wing area, inspecting a few photographs and taking the published 44m span, gets me about 380sq m. Which works out to about 1050kq/sq m. Compare that to a 747 at 762kg/sq m.

The point is not that it’s particularly efficient in “conventional” flight (it clearly isn’t, give both the wing loading and low aspect ratio), but rather that it could manage it.
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:42 pm

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):



Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 11):

Thanks guys. It looks like a smart design. Why we don't see more of it?
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Starlionblue
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:48 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 14):

Thanks guys. It looks like a smart design. Why we don't see more of it?

My theory:
- It's quite complex (=maintenance hog). Unless you want to loft something the size of a Tu-95, you don't need engines that powerful so one disc is enough.
- I don't know if the noise of the Tu-95 is inherent in the counter rotating prop design. If it is, there's another problem.

Then again, there is the An-70, a modern design with counter rotating props.
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don81603
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:53 pm

While not a jet, where would the Spruce Goose fit in weight wise?


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flyf15
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:09 pm

Quoting Don81603 (Reply 16):
While not a jet, where would the Spruce Goose fit in weight wise?

Although dimensionally huge, the Spruce Goose only had an MTOW of about 400,000lbs. Huge for the day, but less than 1/3 that of the An-225. Roughly the same as a fully loaded 767-300ER.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 14):

Thanks guys. It looks like a smart design. Why we don't see more of it?

Loud! Really really loud, and rather hard to quiet. Mechanical complexity is also an issue, although not really any worse than any of the other solutions when you're talking about those power levels from a propeller.

Tom.
 
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SEPilot
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:48 pm

Quoting Rwessel (Reply 2):
How about the KM ekranoplan (aka the Caspian Sea Monster), with a MTOW of 1,080,000lbs.

According to the Wiki article you linked it only flew in ground effect, so I would not count it; I would put it in the same class as a hovercraft. I could find no info on the Lun, so I can't comment on that.
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airfoilsguy
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:34 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 19):
Quoting Rwessel (Reply 2):
How about the KM ekranoplan (aka the Caspian Sea Monster), with a MTOW of 1,080,000lbs.

According to the Wiki article you linked it only flew in ground effect, so I would not count it;

He asked about the heaviest jet, he didn't say anything about it having to actually fly.  Smile


Therefor I submit my entry.



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CJAContinental
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
As as side benefit, you also get very low torque transmitted to the aircraft

Why does this occur on a normal turboprop, is it such that the aircraft would tend to yaw more horizontally as the propellers on each wing are spinning in opoosite directions, and is this why counter-rotating propellers are used on some aircraft to balance the aircraft, whilst greater thrust is not required (e.g, no need for contra-rotating propellers as seen in the AN-70).

I'm not sure if I'm talking crap as they are just guesses, but if I am, then could someone please expand more on this, I would be very greatful, thanks,
Work Hard/Fly Right.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 21):
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
As as side benefit, you also get very low torque transmitted to the aircraft

Why does this occur on a normal turboprop, is it such that the aircraft would tend to yaw more horizontally as the propellers on each wing are spinning in opoosite directions, and is this why counter-rotating propellers are used on some aircraft to balance the aircraft, whilst greater thrust is not required (e.g, no need for contra-rotating propellers as seen in the AN-70).

On a normal turboprop, you've got a gearbox spinning the propeller. Torque applied to the prop is picked up as a reaction on the gearbox and so on, back to the turbine. Most of it goes straight through but everything that's lost in the gearbox to friction shows up as torque on the airframe. If you have counter-rotating props then, done right, the parasitic torque from each prop cancels the other.

I'm not totally positive that answers your question though...

Tom.
 
CJAContinental
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:38 pm

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 22):

Yeah, I think I understand your comments, cheers Tom!
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DH106
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:02 pm

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 21):
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
As as side benefit, you also get very low torque transmitted to the aircraft

Why does this occur on a normal turboprop

Again, sorry for the off-topic:

Q: Don't all jets and turboprops have a torque effect because their fixed stators react the gas flow ?
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remcor
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:45 am



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 20):
He asked about the heaviest jet, he didn't say anything about it having to actually fly. Smile


Therefor I submit my entry.

What are these engines used for?
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: What The Top Four Heaviest Jets Ever Built?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:58 pm



Quoting Remcor (Reply 25):
What are these engines used for?

Power generation
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