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Quoting Hals (Thread starter): Are there any pilots out there who genuinely dislike their job but stay in it because of the money, perks etc ? |
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4): Commenting on the sterile cockpit rule, he said that, upon reaching 10,000', the bitching started, and literally didn't stop until they descended through 10,000', several states away. Bitching about union issues, bitching about pay, bitching about benefits, bitching about schedules, bitching about scope clauses....on and on and on. |
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 9): Hmmm. If the jumpseater hadn't indicated he was on a NW flight, I could have sworn he must have flown with my brother. He's a DL captain, and he's miserable. |
Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 6): Most pilots I know love the flying and the day-to-day ops and serving the passengers. But they hate the 'Soviet' level of service that has become the norm in the US nowadays. Apathy and incompetence are the order of the day at most US companies. |
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 11): It always amazes me when I fly in the US how really bad things are, for passengers, F/As, pilots, and I presume ground staff. Here in Southeast Asia airlines are of another caliber. There's simply an expectation of a little more. A company like US or NW would be out of the market or change right quick. And not only because pax would abandon it. The owners would be ashamed of offering that kind of service. It's not done. Even in Europe we haven't quite reached the depths US carriers are plumbing. The immortal words "has reached rock bottom and started digging" come to mind. |
Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 12): The problem, at least in the US, is how insanely abused pilots are by their companies. I can only speak firsthand for regionals, but regionals are a very large portion of the domestic feed in the US. Pay: Our pay is horrible... half of the pilots at my company make less than $30,000/yr. Our company constantly tries to figure out how to cheat us out of the little money we do make. Our average paystub for 1st year FOs, for 2 weeks, after taxes, is roughly $650. For 2nd year FOs, it goes up to $715. Culture: We are constantly being threatened by management for discipline via memos, harassing phone calls, etc. They are so adversarial to the point where almost all communication to the company has to be done through the union. Scheduling: Crew scheduling often extends us or junior mans us due to the company not adequately staffing the airline, they also change our schedules at a whim due to loopholes in our contract. The company schedules to the maximum legal limits. Some months, over half of my overnights are reduced rest... often only 8 hours. Thats 8 hours off duty, not 8 hours of sleep. These 8 hours start before I am even out of the airport and end when I get to the gate the next morning... so, maybe 4 hours of sleep? Additionally, I often have days that are 15+ hours of duty, in snow, rain, winds, with mechanical issues, and my schedule is so erratic and changing that I can't even begin to imagine sitting down for a regular meal anytime during that day. Lifestyle: Being away from home and not doing anything but being in some airplane or airport, eating horrible airport food, and having your off time be in a crappy dirty hotel with a shower that doesn't work right and sheets you're not sure were washed... sucks. Training: Our training is the FAA minimum, and it is taught by people who honestly, have no clue what they're teaching. They just read from a book. We have one instructor who has never even been in an airplane. Our training materials and manuals are of horrible quality... full of contradictory statements, spelling/grammar mistakes, circular definitions, etc. We often joke that if the publications we have were written for a 6th grade english class, they'd receive an F every time. Why I do it: For all the reasons I've listed above, and many more, the job flat out sucks. Flying as a job, at a regional airline in the US... sucks. If you are an FO, it sucks even so much more. BUT, the actual flying part is great. There are still times where I'm in cruise in glass smooth air looking out my window at mountains... or the atlantic... or a beautiful sunset where I think "Most of my friends get excited when there is a window somewhere near their cubicle in their office building..... and I have... this. Wow." Flying is great, I absolutely love flying and I couldn't imagine myself doing anything else. Its too bad though, because this is the attitude that has allowed this job to become so horrible in every other aspect. Us pilots have shot ourselves in the foot. The airlines make it a little worse step by step and we continually let them, because we still will do the job. Flying is great, its what I live for. Its all I could ever see myself doing. For those of you who encounter pilots who have a bad attitude or complain at lot... that is not me. I always come to work with a smile and never complain. I'm one of the happy ones. But, since it was asked.... what I've written above is how it is. Everything I wrote can be backed up with facts.... memos, print outs of schedules, hotel reports, pay stubs, etc. For all the other regional pilots out there reading this.... Lets make it better guys. Stand firm in negotiations / against your company and fly safe (you know what I mean ). |
Quoting RJwrench85 (Reply 13): I agree. I had never been on anything but DL/NW/UA/US until a few months ago since then I have been on MU/CA/HU/ZH and they have very high level of service. Its been quite the experience..... Now how do we get some of this great service over to the us? |
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4): 10,000', the bitching started, and literally didn't stop until they descended through 10,000', several states away. Bitching about union issues, bitching about pay, bitching about benefits, bitching about schedules, bitching about scope clauses....on and on and on. |
Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 15): Passengers in the US have voted with their wallets what they want from airlines. They want the absolute lowest costs tickets... not service/comfort/well-trained employees/etc |
Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 15): Passengers in the US have voted with their wallets what they want from airlines. They want the absolute lowest costs tickets... not service/comfort/well-trained employees/etc |
Quoting RJwrench85 (Reply 13): Now how do we get some of this great service over to the us? |
Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 15): Part of the problem seems to be that with websites like travelocity and expedia. You see the list of fares for your destination. Airline with crappy service is charging $199, Airline with much better service is charging $207. Which airline do you think most people are going to click on? |
Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 21): I will never for the life of me understand how Fedex and UPS can pay their people top dollar and when rising fuel costs happen well they pass the cost on to the customer and you know what? They pay it!! But the pax airlines say oh no we cant raise fares the public wont stand for it...Well eventually something has to give...You cannot run full a/c and consistantly lose money but the airlines do it every day don't they..Baffles me. |
Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 19): I thought LX was a good company? |
Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 12): |
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 11): Here in HK such behavior would lead to the employees being warned, perhaps even fired. They shame their company and make the owner lose face. Most employees wouldn't even think about doing that, even if they were dissatisfied. |
Quoting N231YE (Reply 24): I am still a college student, and know very much what the hell I am getting into...but I love flying. |
Quoting Hals (Thread starter): Are there any pilots out there who genuinely dislike their job but stay in it because of the money, perks etc ? To us non-pilots it would be the dream job but I guess like all jobs there are bad days too. Just curious... |
Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 28): Need a dispatcher? |
Quoting Brenintw (Reply 25): I remember being on a CX flight (I think it was HKG - TPE) when the F/A seated near me "took a shine to me" ... I got "treated" to a running commentary on how she, as a graduate, was working as a "glorified waitress" and how she detested the job ... this went on for basically the whole flight (when she wasn't serving). At the end of the flight, I was leaving, and a went up to her and quietly explained that I understood her feelings, etc, etc, but as a manager myself (I didn't tell her I "managed" a department of one!), if I heard an employee talking like that to a customer, that employee wouldn't be employed much longer. I must admit in my many flights on CX, that's the only time I've ever encountered someone voicing dissatisfaction at the job. |
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 29): I do, actually, but I'll need a dispatcher who can double as a barkeep. |
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 30): I have some barkeeping experience. I'll have to learn the dispatching thing. |
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 35): Is it just me or did this thread just turn into "suck up to 2H4"? |
Photo © Chris Silvey | Photo © Lenn Bayliss |
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 31): Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 30): I have some barkeeping experience. I'll have to learn the dispatching thing. It's settled, then. Dispatchguy will be the dispatcher, and you'll be the barkeep. Now I just need a mechanic. 2H4 |
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 37): ME, ME! And I have Beaver experience (both the airplane and the other, hum, non swimming kind Wink ) |