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FlyASAGuy2005
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Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:39 pm

Ok, so as the topics stated, anybody seen this doen/can this be done? I always thought that would be cool. Instead of your normal gas pedel, you rig the car with a throttle (airliner type not piston).
What gets measured gets done.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:44 pm

I think the federal DOT (as well as the various state DMV's) would take issue with the fact that aircraft throttles are designed to stay put when you open them, and don't return to idle when you remove the pressure (like the accellerator does...). Besides, just imagine what would happen if you opened the throttle up to the engine's redline RPM in a car and left it there.. Big grin (Hint: most automotive engines aren't designed to turn at their redline RPM for longer than a few seconds...).
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:48 pm

Ahah! I see. Like if you black out in a car, it would eventually stop (if ur foot goes off the peddle). But i've seen guys mod car's with "jet turbines"; pretty cool, check it out on youTube. But hey, as long as they dont find out right!
What gets measured gets done.
 
Blackbird
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:04 pm

A person could design the throttles so that they'd automatically retard when you let go. Having them loaded against springs can do that right?


Andrea Kent
 
KELPkid
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:52 pm

A closer match for a car (that looks a lot like it's airplane counterpart, I might add) would be a boat throttle. And, since most boats with inboard motors use Ford, Chevy, or Volvo engines, it might just be a drop-in replacement  Wink

However, were I to choose an airplane throttle for conversion to automotive duties, I'd probably go with the throttle quadrant from a Piper Cherokee:
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Robert Nicander



Definitely the most "airplane like" throttle quadrant (well, for a GA bird anyhow) around  Smile
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9VSIO
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:26 pm

What about an a twin throttle (a la airbus or boeing) as the gear shift lever on an automatic? the toga/ATdisconnect buttons could be the release switch allowing it to move  Smile

btw.Happy New Year!
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BR715-A1-30
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:26 pm



Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 5):
What about an a twin throttle (a la airbus or boeing) as the gear shift lever on an automatic? the toga/ATdisconnect buttons could be the release switch allowing it to move

Bah!! Where's the fun in that? I wanna position my car on the road, and slam the throttles forward (and it would be nice to hear a spooling whine sound).  Silly
Puhdiddle
 
Viscount724
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:04 am



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
think the federal DOT (as well as the various state DMV's) would take issue with the fact that aircraft throttles are designed to stay put when you open them, and don't return to idle when you remove the pressure (like the accellerator does...).

There would also be the safety issue of having to drive with only one hand on the steering wheel almost all the time.
 
Blackbird
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:13 am

I'm pretty sure you could re-design the steering system so the wheels turn to their max when the wheel is turned 75 or 110-degrees to one side rather than having to keep turning the wheel over and over and over again.

It would be a radical redesign over a typical car though...


Andrea Kent
 
flight152
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:34 am



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
you rig the car with a throttle (airliner type not piston).

Those aren't throttles, they are thrust levers.

Dumb idea.
 
cptspeaking
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:57 am



Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 5):

I like!! Maybe the spoiler lever for the shifter in my manual transmission-ed car?
...and don't call me Shirley!!
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:14 am

I doubt I'd ever have something like that on my car. Maybe an aircraft yoke steering wheel or rudder pedal brake and gas but never "throttles" instead of a gas pedal...
If you flew today, thank a Flight Dispatcher!
 
Mir
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:42 am

Make your parking brake lever the flap lever from a Piper Cherokee.  Smile

-Mir
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:48 am



Quoting Flight152 (Reply 9):
Those aren't throttles, they are thrust levers.

Dumb idea.

And why did you post?  butthead 

And I guess no one has ever refered to them as throttles.  Yeah sure
What gets measured gets done.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:17 am



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 3):
A person could design the throttles so that they'd automatically retard when you let go. Having them loaded against springs can do that right?

Possibly. Some high-performance planes (like the Cessna 182's and 210's) have an adjustable friction lock on the throttle. If you have the friction lock set too loose, when the engine starts pulling vacuum, the throttle has a habit of slowly closing itself...  Wink
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Jetlagged
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:38 pm

Many years ago I had a go at driving a farm tractor and as I recall it had a throttle lever. I guess that makes sense for ploughing and for situations where the tractor is stationary and supplying shaft power to another machine. Some cars have hand throttles when adapted for disabled use. All bikes have hand throttles.

If your car has cruise control then you have an autothrottle like an aircraft. I'd like a system where you could dial in the required speed, like an aircraft, rather than maintain the current speed and inch it up or down. A digital display of demanded speed would be nice too (for those of us with failing memories).
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TSS
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:40 pm

The obvious choice for an aircraft-style throttle installation would be a mid-sixties Ford Thunderbird, as their dashboard/instrument panels are heavily aircraft-inspired:

1964 model-


1966 model-

(the throttle-like levers at the top center of the dash are HVAC controls)

Lots of cars are equipped with hand controls (combination throttle/brake) for use by handicapped drivers who can't use foot controls. While these are normally mounted on the steering column, there is no real reason why the throttle couldn't be mounted on the console instead. Mounting a combination lever that controls both throttle and brakes (push forward to apply brakes/pull rearward to open throttle) on the console would present a bit more of an engineering challenge, but wouldn't be impossible.

I seem to remember reading that foot controls must still be in place and functional on cars that are also equipped with hand controls, but that would be a minor concern.
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KELPkid
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:14 pm



Quoting TSS (Reply 16):
The obvious choice for an aircraft-style throttle installation would be a mid-sixties Ford Thunderbird, as their dashboard/instrument panels are heavily aircraft-inspired:

Amazing how similar that is to my first car, an 84 T-bird (well, minus the cool '60s chrome trim...). I also owned a '93, and the wraparound the driver concept was very much in place, with all the controls (switches, HVAC, radio, etc.) were angled towards the driver in that car...dang I miss the '93. The car had amazing handling (it was rear-wheel drive with a fully independent rear suspension) and rode very smooth, never have encountered that combination before or since.
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2H4
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:21 pm



Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 15):
Many years ago I had a go at driving a farm tractor and as I recall it had a throttle lever. I guess that makes sense for ploughing and for situations where the tractor is stationary and supplying shaft power to another machine.

Many old tractors had this configuration. It helps a lot when working in rough/bumpy fields. Were they equipped with a car-like pedal, the jolting and bouncing would make it difficult to maintain a constant throttle position.

2H4
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KELPkid
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:31 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 18):
Many old tractors had this configuration. It helps a lot when working in rough/bumpy fields. Were they equipped with a car-like pedal, the jolting and bouncing would make it difficult to maintain a constant throttle position.

2H4

Lots of airport fuel trucks have a hand throttle, too (in addition to the gas pedal...). The engine will die if the fuel pump PTO (power take-off) is engaged with the engine at idle.
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2H4
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:39 pm



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 19):
The engine will die if the fuel pump PTO (power take-off) is engaged with the engine at idle.

Heck, the engines in the fuel trucks I drove died for any number of reasons...  Wink

2H4
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KELPkid
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:46 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):
Heck, the engines in the fuel trucks I drove died for any number of reasons...

2H4

Part of the job qualifications for the job of lineboy should be "shady tree mechanic..." Big grin I sure learned how to replace plugs (and gap them), adjust timing and carburetors, and replace starters in my lineboy days....
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2H4
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:55 pm



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 21):
I sure learned how to replace plugs (and gap them), adjust timing and carburetors, and replace starters in my lineboy days....

See, I didn't ever get to actually repair or maintain the trucks. I just got to invent creative ways around their various "mechanical challenges".

A lack of brakes, for example, inspired the "leap and chock" maneuver, where the driver dashes from the still-moving truck and throws a chock under one of the wheels to position it for fueling duties. Bonus points for accuracy.

I never did devise a method of removing the various Bic pens that coworkers dropped into the fuel tank over the years.

Thinking back, it's really no wonder the "100LL" was always blue....  scratchchin 

2H4
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KELPkid
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:32 am



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 8):
I'm pretty sure you could re-design the steering system so the wheels turn to their max when the wheel is turned 75 or 110-degrees to one side rather than having to keep turning the wheel over and over and over again.

It would be a radical redesign over a typical car though...

I'll say. You'd have a car with hyper-sensitive steering at that point...  Wow!

Anyone remember the TV series Knight Rider? In addition to Kitt's turbine power plant, I think Kitt featured an aircraft yoke in place of the steering wheel...  Wink
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2H4
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:35 am



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 23):
Anyone remember the TV series Knight Rider? In addition to Kitt's turbine power plant, I think Kitt featured an aircraft yoke in place of the steering wheel...

Wow, did it ever:



2H4
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KELPkid
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:39 am



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 24):
Wow, did it ever:

I think you meant "He." As I recall, Kitt would get rather offended if you referred to "him" as an "it."

Blackbird is probably too young to remember David Haselhoff in his pre "Babe-watch", err, Baywatch days  eyebrow 
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2H4
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:03 am



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 25):
I think you meant "He." As I recall, Kitt would get rather offended if you referred to "him" as an "it."

Ah yes, good point. I shudder to think what would happen to me if I made that mistake in his presence. Not an enemy you'd want to make, that's for sure.

2H4
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:14 am



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
aircraft throttles are designed to stay put when you open them, and don't return to idle when you remove the pressure (like the accellerator does...).

Ya know, I just drove 1200mi on a car without cruise control and I actually thought of a way of rigging the mixture lever of the screw/button type found on cessnas to the throttle. So, you'd push the button to "activate" it (ie by means of a cable and or lever on the pedal) and set an aprox. throttle setting, then you twist in or out to fine tune it, and when you need to "disengage" it you just push the button and pull it out.

I honestly don't think it would be that hard to adapt (I've done crazier inventions than that  Wink ). But if you've driven the I-10 East from TUS to IAH, you know where I'm coming from.  banghead 
 
KELPkid
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:11 pm



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 27):
I honestly don't think it would be that hard to adapt (I've done crazier inventions than that ). But if you've driven the I-10 East from TUS to IAH, you know where I'm coming from.

Yep, I've driven that stretch before...not all the way from Tucson to Houston in one shot, though  Wink

Could your classic VW Bug keep up with the 80 MPH speed limit between El Paso and Fort Stockton Big grin

By the way, if you just want cruise control, Pep Boys used to sell a Do-it-yourself cruise control kit...don't know if they still do. I think it worked off of engine vacuum and the controller was designed to hang off of the turn signal stalk or the wiper stalk.
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grandtheftaero
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:50 pm



Quoting Flight152 (Reply 9):
Those aren't throttles, they are thrust levers.

Good call. Jet engines don't have throttle controls per se and to refer to them as such is technically incorrect. The power output of a reciprocating engine is controlled by regulating the amount of air that is metering into the induction system via some sort of restriction, i.e. a throttle. So it would be appropriate to say that something like a car or a Cessna 172 has throttle controls. (As an aside, technically speaking, to go "full throttle" would mean to fully close off your induction system, and thereby shut down your engine. This, of course, is not how the word "throttle" used in everyday language.)

In a jet engine the power output is controlled by metering fuel flow into the engine not the airflow. It is therefore not appropriate to call a thrust lever (aka power lever) a throttle. They don't throttle anything, not directly anyway. The throttle controls that do exist in an engine are completely transparent to the pilot and are actuated by the FADEC or some other control system. A fairly visible example of this is the Variable Exhaust Nozzle throat area of an afterburning engine.

Tech/Ops, kids. Let's not chide anyone for being technical.
 
Analog
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:58 pm



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):

There would also be the safety issue of having to drive with only one hand on the steering wheel almost all the time.

If they worked like on aircraft, you wouldn't have to hold them. Therein lies the problem. People would use their brakes for speed control, which has all sorts of issues.

Of course heel-toe shifting would become a lot easier, especially vs. the silly cars sold in the US where the brake and gas pedals are completely misaligned.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Topic Author
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:04 am



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 24):
Wow, did it ever:

Isn't KITT for sale right now on EBAY? I saw this thing on yahoo news with a "new" KITT. It was one of the new Mustang 500's and they were saying if it could stand to the Trans Am.
What gets measured gets done.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:06 am



Quoting Analog (Reply 30):
If they worked like on aircraft, you wouldn't have to hold them. Therein lies the problem. People would use their brakes for speed control, which has all sorts of issues.

Your typical dumb American driver, who doesn't understand using the transmission for downhill speed control, already does that...  sarcastic  That's why over 90% of the cars sold in this country are the point-and-shoot model, AKA "automatic."  Wink
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bok269
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:07 am

It is as simple as this: airplane controls are as they are because they are most advantageous for their application. Cars are likewise. There are very obvious reasons why other configurations wouldn't be practical.

That being said, I've always wanted to taxi my car with rudder pedals.
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:49 am

Our 100LL and Jet-A trucks all had PTOs (a switch which controlled if engine power would go to the wheels or fuel pump). I remember one of our oldest crappy trucks (now gone and replaced with a new International model) had to have a wooden stick wedged on the gas to speed up the engine and improve fuel pump speed so we could run the single-point nozzle. Only one tanker had a throttle but it was more like a mixture control. We usually just kept it at full in (rich) while the engine was on and full out (lean) when the truck was not running.
If you flew today, thank a Flight Dispatcher!
 
57AZ
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:12 am



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 27):
But if you've driven the I-10 East from TUS to IAH, you know where I'm coming from.

I've done my share of time on I-10. Last real long haul was a couple of years back driving IAH to TUS. Back when I was driving motorcoaches for a living, we did a lot of TUS to LAX trips-many being overnight. IAH to TUS was a two and a half day run with a box truck. The TUS to LAX runs were pretty much one shot, stopping only for mandatory safety inspections and rest. Heading westbound, the first stop would usually be Blythe, CA for a potty break and fifteen minutes for the passengers to stretch their legs. Depending on the time of day, the second stop (if there was one) might be Palm Desert or Indio. Otherwise, we'd head straight on in. I was thankful for the good cruise controls those Van Hools had. Once away from town, we'd set it to run right at 70 mph which was the top speed allowed by our transmission governors.

Only thing I didn't really like was dealing with the waste water. I'd use the rest rooms at the truck stops or restaurants whenever possible. There's a real nice restaurant at Ehrenbergh (on the AZ/CA line) but we rarely called there. Occasionally if we were deadheading coaches-it happened sometimes-we'd run longer legs between stops.

I would also add that the coaches had great transmission retarders. Running up in the mountains of New Mexico, we used them very heavily. Coming off of La Manga Pass on CO/NM 17 eastbound, we had a 6 mile descending grade-4 miles of 6% and two miles of 4%. If you kept your speed under control just after cresting the pass (10,400 ft.), you could make it safely to the bottom using only the retarder. It sometimes spooked the passengers to see my right foot firmly on the floor and never touch the brake.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
cptspeaking
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:57 am



Quoting Bok269 (Reply 33):
That being said, I've always wanted to taxi my car with rudder pedals.

 bigthumbsup   highfive  Yesss!!!! Reminds me of the ole'..."You might be a pilot if you've ever driven in the middle of the road...just for practice."  biggrin  We need a thread of those...I've heard some pretty good ones...

Your CptSpeaking
...and don't call me Shirley!!
 
Alessandro
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:22 am

Go for it, take a Aston Martin Lagonda and put in Seitek, yoke and throttle, the car looks so spaced out anyway nobody notice the difference... 

[Edited 2008-01-03 01:23:01]
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:55 am



Quoting 57AZ (Reply 35):

I love the sound of the VOITH retarders. Wheeeeeeeew. The van-hools we have for Viva transit (AG300 and A330) both have them.
If you flew today, thank a Flight Dispatcher!
 
zotan
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:58 am



Quoting Bok269 (Reply 33):
That being said, I've always wanted to taxi my car with rudder pedals.

YUP!

I always have the want to coordinate my turns too.  Big grin
 
bok269
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RE: Retrofitting Car With Aircraft Throttles

Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:14 pm



Quoting ZOTAN (Reply 39):
I always have the want to coordinate my turns too.

I've always thought about that...rollovers would be a thing of the past! (at least while turning)
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac

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