What Is The "K"?

727LOVER · Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:14 am

I'm used to:

MIA
SFO
LAX

but lots of times I see people refer to them as:

KMIA
KSFO
KLAX

So what is the K?

gigneil · Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:17 am

Those are ICAO rather than IATA airport codes.

NS

mark5388916 · Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:18 am

K starts all ICAO Airport codes in the Continental USA. In the Pacific they start with P like PHNL is Honolulu. In the US, most IATA codes (MIA, CDG, ONT, RIV) are the same with a K or a P added yet there are some exceptions (PHOG is OGG) In Europe, some codes are VERY different. CDG=LFPG LHR=EGLL. Hope this helps.

Mark

a318 · Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:20 am

Quoting Mark5388916 (Reply 2):
In the US, most IATA codes (MIA, CDG, ONT, RIV)

CDG in the United States? I'm sure you meant to say Europe!

rampart · Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:21 am

K is the ICAO prefix designating a US airport. C is Canada (CYUL), Z China (ZSHA), etc.

-Rampart

kaitak744 · Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:21 am

All airports have two codes:

IATA codes: 3 letters (ex: LAX)
ICAO codes: 4 letters (ex: KLAX)

Most airports have different IATA and ICAO codes. For example, Heathrow - IATA: LHR and ICAO: EGLL. However, in the U.S., the ICAO codes simply have a K in front of the IATA codes. They just didn't want to come up with new codes I guess.

star_world · Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:40 am

Quoting Rampart (Reply 4):
K is the ICAO prefix designating a US airport. C is Canada (CYUL), Z China (ZSHA), etc.

There are actually only a handful of countries where you can just stick an extra letter onto the IATA code to get the ICAO code. Almost every country has different 4-letter airport codes.

LAXintl · Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:58 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 5):
All airports have two codes:

Not all.

There are plnety of airports without IATA codes but with ICAO codes. Then to make things even more complicated there are FAA 3-4 letter or alpha-numeric codes applicable to small airfields or heliports that are not assigned IATA or ICAO codes.

siromega · Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:24 am

Here is an odd one for ya:

IATA: HSH
ICAO: KHND

Henderson Executive, near LAS.

KELPkid · Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:28 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 5):
All airports have two codes:

IATA codes: 3 letters (ex: LAX)
ICAO codes: 4 letters (ex: KLAX)

Better add the FAA LID (location identifier-3 characters, can be letters or numbers) to that for US airports. Sometimes, all three can be different

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 5):
Most airports have different IATA and ICAO codes. For example, Heathrow - IATA: LHR and ICAO: EGLL. However, in the U.S., the ICAO codes simply have a K in front of the IATA codes. They just didn't want to come up with new codes I guess

Here in the 'states, the vast majority of fields don't have IATA codes. Tell me, what's the IATA for 5T6 or 7S3...

However, all big fields where airliners would normally land have IATA identifiers... ICAO identifiers usually go to the bigger fields, too. Your little small GA fields where the identifier is partially numeric won't have an ICAO identifier.

P.S. The ICAO identifier is the key to decoding my screen name Wink

[Edited 2008-01-13 22:29:14]

aloha73g · Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:52 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 10):
P.S. The ICAO identifier is the key to decoding my screen name

You mean you don't like kelp?? Wink

I always thought you were a lover of seals and sea lions.

-Aloha!

COSPN · Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:04 am

K CONUS
P Pacific HNL ANC GUM
RJ Japan
RP Philippines
RO Okinawa
RK South Korea
WA Indonesia

LASoctoberB6 · Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:08 am

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 9):
Here is an odd one for ya:

IATA: HSH
ICAO: KHND

Henderson Executive, near LAS.

Seriously, I never knew that and always thought it was KHND or HND... HSH...hmm... Thanks SO.

speedygonzales · Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:43 am

See here for more details:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...Aviation_Organization_airport_code

ryu2 · Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:57 am

Did West and East Germany have different ICAO prefixes, or did they share the ED prefix before reunification?

jgarrido · Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:45 am

Usually the letter of a ICAO identifer is a broad region while the second is further subregion. For example Hawaii's airports are all PH. P for pacific, H for hawaii. e.g. PHNL, PHOG, PHTO, PHNG. Guam's International Airport is PGUM. Again P is pacific and now G is for Guam. Andersen AFB is PGUA. Siapan and Rota are part of the Guam "region" so they are PGSN and PGRO respectively.

Of course there are always exceptions even outside the continental US. Sydney is YSSY, yet clear on the other side of the country is YSHK-Shark Bay Airport – Denham, Western Australia

charlipr · Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:30 am

St. Agustine, Florida:

IATA: UST
ICAO: KSGJ
FAA: SGJ

Hilton Head, SC:

IATA: HHH
ICAO: KHXD
FAA: HXD

TWFirst · Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:44 pm

Quoting A318 (Reply 3):
CDG in the United States? I'm sure you meant to say Europe!

He probably meant to say CVG.

AsstChiefMark · Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:58 pm

AND... A.net's mouse-over function only recognizes IATA codes.

There are a handful of members that insist on using ICAO codes. I think it's their attempt to screw with peoples' minds or show off their "superior" abilities.

Falcon Flyer · Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:59 pm

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 12):
Seriously, I never knew that and always thought it was KHND or HND... HSH...hmm... Thanks SO.

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 8):
Here is an odd one for ya:

IATA: HSH
ICAO: KHND

Henderson Executive, near LAS.

Interesting anomaly since HND is recognized for domestic ATC and flight planning. Same thing with Scottsdale, AZ where SDL is used even though the airport codes are shown as KSDL/SCF. Phoenix-Mesa (formerly Williams Gateway) also uses IWA for flight planning and ATC even though the codes are listed as KIWA/AZA.

JBo · Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:07 pm

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 8):
Here is an odd one for ya:

Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 19):

Interesting anomaly since HND is recognized for domestic ATC and flight planning. Same thing with Scottsdale, AZ where SDL is used even though the airport codes are shown as KSDL/SCF. Phoenix-Mesa (formerly Williams Gateway) also uses IWA for flight planning and ATC even though the codes are listed as KIWA/AZA.

That's because the FAA has their own 3-letter codes they use, which are pretty much the ICAO codes with the K left off, so for U.S. airports, there are really three codes: ICAO, IATA, and FAA Local ID.

Here's another U.S. airport to the "anomaly list":

IATA: MQT
ICAO: KSAW

Sawyer Int'l Airport (former K.I. Sawyer AFB) - Marquette, Michigan

KELPkid · Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:34 pm

Here's a question for you fellow pilot folks:

Which ID do you use in your logbook?

When flying domestically, I usually use the FAA LID. However, on the occasions that I've flown into Mexico, I put the ICAO identifier in, basically because I didn't have any other aeronautical data readily available (like the local 3-letter identifier or the IATA code Wink

). I have been asked by an FAA designated flight examiner "Where the hell is this?" when he ran across those entries in my logbook, and I had to explain...

Cubsrule · Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:37 pm

Quoting JBo (Reply 20):
Here's another U.S. airport to the "anomaly list":

Is AUS an anomaly? MCO isn't since they didn't move ORL when took over McCoy AFB, but AUS might be...

KELPkid · Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:41 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 22):
Is AUS an anomaly? MCO isn't since they didn't move ORL when took over McCoy AFB, but AUS might be...

It used to be, I believe it was KBSM until Mueller was finally closed, then they gave it KAUS.

austinairport · Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:56 pm

Quoting Mark5388916 (Reply 2):
K starts all ICAO Airport codes in the Continental USA. In the Pacific they start with P like PHNL is Honolulu. In the US, most IATA codes (MIA, CDG, ONT, RIV) are the same with a K or a P added yet there are some exceptions (PHOG is OGG) In Europe, some codes are VERY different. CDG=LFPG LHR=EGLL. Hope this helps.

Mark

applause

AF1624 · Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:37 pm

Moreover, you can actually translate those ICAO codes, most of the time :

- LFPG

-- L : Latin Europe
-- F : France
-- P : Paris
-- G : de Gaulles

- LPPT

-- L : Latin Europe
-- P : Portugal
-- PT : Portela de Sacavem Airport

- LFPO

-- L : Latin Europe
-- F : France
-- P : Paris
-- O : Orly

- LFBD :

Latin Europe, France, BorDeaux

- SBGL :

Southern America, Brazil, Galeão International (it was called Galeão before being called Antonio C. Jobim)

- SBSV :

Southern America, Brazil, Salvador (SV)

- SBRF :

Souther America, Brazil, Recife (RF)

- EDDM :

Eastern Europe, Deutschland, D?, München

- LEBM :

Latin Europe, España, Barcelona (M?)

- SVFM :

Southern America, Venezuela, Francisco de Miranda AB (FM)

Etc...

It doesn't work with every ICAO code but most of the time you can translate them. I've come accross a big excel table with lots of translated ICAO codes of most of the major airports around the world. But I wouldn't be able to find it though.

iRISH251 · Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:47 pm

Quoting Ryu2 (Reply 14):
Did West and East Germany have different ICAO prefixes, or did they share the ED prefix before reunification?
No, West Germany had ED and East Germany ET. After reunification the former East German airports were re-designated into the ED series - for example, Berlin-Schoenefeld was originally ETBS but became EDDB. The ET prefixes are now used to designate military airfields, e.g. ETAD for Spangdahlem and ETAR for Ramstein, though there may be exceptions that I am not aware of.

[Edited 2008-01-14 12:48:54]

Cubsrule · Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:49 pm

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 25):
Latin Europe

If L is Latin Europe (which is, for the most part, accurate), what is E? Can't be eastern, as it's really more like northern (EHAM, EGLL, etc.)

BWilliams · Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:06 pm

E is Europe, but it's only for the nothern half or so, as you've noticed. England (EG-), Netherlands (EH-), Norway (EN-), Poland (EP-), etc. Goes as far east as Latvia (EV-), when it runs into the Russian designators (U-)

KELPkid · Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:35 pm

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 10):
You mean you don't like kelp??

I always thought you were a lover of seals and sea lions.

-Aloha!

El Paso? Sea Lions? Am I missing something here, or did some seals magically swim 750 miles up the Rio Grande? Big grin

I didn't even know the Gulf of Mexico hade those Wink

Mir · Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:49 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 27):
If L is Latin Europe (which is, for the most part, accurate), what is E? Can't be eastern, as it's really more like northern (EHAM, EGLL, etc.)

E is Europe, L is Lower Europe (or so I've been told).

-Mir

Cubsrule · Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:53 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 30):
E is Europe

I'll buy that... it sure makes sense (and off the top of my head, the word for Europe starts with E in most European languages; certainly in English and French).

dairbus · Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:55 pm

L is for "Lower" or Southern Europe and includes not only the countries that border the Mediterranean but also the Balkans, Switzerland, Austria, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Israel among others.

N68TLCaptain · Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:02 pm

Arizona has alot of P's

P19- Stellar
P08-Colidge
P13-Globe san carlos
P04-Bisbee

I know theres more but thats all I can think of

EDICHC · Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:03 pm

Quoting BWilliams (Reply 28):
E is Europe, but it's only for the nothern half or so, as you've noticed. England (EG-)

Grrr! EGxx is Britain NOT ENGLAND! I get really ratty England is not a sovereign state! My old home Edinburgh has the ICAO code EGPH last I heard it was still in Scotland which is part of Britain....not England!

AirEMS · Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:32 pm

Don't forget that Denver International when it opened was KDIA then got changed to KDEN which was Stapleton's code

-Carl

Argonaut · Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:49 pm

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 34):
EGxx is Britain NOT ENGLAND! I get really ratty England is not a sovereign state! My old home Edinburgh has the ICAO code EGPH last I heard it was still in Scotland which is part of Britain....not England!

Although it might be better to use "UK" which includes all four countries ("Britain" strictly only refers to three of them).

Don't know why people don't get it...using "England" to mean "UK" is like using "Texas" when you're speaking of the entire USA...

Back on topic (more or less): I've always presumed the UK's EG was composed of E=Europe/G=Great Britain, but I might be wrong. Standardised systems like this are bound to have a lot of compromises.

One question: do ICAO codes bear any relationship to radio transmitter callsigns?
And another one: does Canada have a special reason for beginning their IATA codes all with "Y"?

BrianDromey · Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:02 am

EI is the code for Ireland, so you end up with

EINN - SNN
EICK - ORK

etc, the only place Ive seen ICAO codes used is on the entertainment system onboard EI-DAA, an EI A332. Personally I think it makes sense to stick to one set of codes, eg IATA is two letters for Airlines and three letters for airports. I wish we could decide on just one set of abbreviations.

Brian.

sjc4me · Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:20 am

So what does the K stand for in the US? Is ICAO an American institution? Maybe we got to keep our IATA+K because of a hometown discount! Smile

... or did ICAO come first?

Dufo · Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:21 am

ICAO is where you and IATA where your luggage is going Big grin

cjbmibe · Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:33 am

Quoting Argonaut (Reply 36):
Although it might be better to use "UK" which includes all four countries ("Britain" strictly only refers to three of them).

I've come to accept Great Britain as a compromise. My local commercial is EGAC (BHD) although EGAD is closer for general. Both follow the basis of E/ Europe, G/ Great Britain, Ax/ not sure but the airports in Northern Ireland are all EGAx, dont know if any over the water use any left over 4th characters.
The UK is England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. Great Brtiain is England, Scotland and Wales. England is not an accepted blanket term for either the UK or GB. England couldnt survive wthout interfering in Scotland and Northern Ireland and basically extending itself into Wales.

I actally had an exam today on Air Law that was asking questions on ICAO Annexes, wasnt too bad, almost the same as last years exam. ICAO is an interesting organisation.

CFMitch56 · Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:44 am

Quoting Irish251 (Reply 26):
No, West Germany had ED and East Germany ET. After reunification the former East German airports were re-designated into the ED series - for example, Berlin-Schoenefeld was originally ETBS but became EDDB. The ET prefixes are now used to designate military airfields, e.g. ETAD for Spangdahlem and ETAR for Ramstein, though there may be exceptions that I am not aware of.

Does anyone know what the T meant when those East German airports were ETxx? T in Ost (east) maybe? Or could it just be "we had 26 choices, some were already taken, T wasn't taken, so we gave it to East Germany"?

patroni · Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:44 am

Quoting A318 (Reply 3):
Quoting Mark5388916 (Reply 2):
In the US, most IATA codes (MIA, CDG, ONT, RIV)

CDG in the United States? I'm sure you meant to say Europe!

Wow, I didn't know that Sarkozy would go THAT far Wink

Seriously though I second TWFirst's statement:

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 17):

He probably meant to say CVG.

rfields5421 · Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:47 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 18):
There are a handful of members that insist on using ICAO codes. I think it's their attempt to screw with peoples' minds or show off their "superior" abilities.

If you deal with flight planning software - the ICAO codes are normally used.

Quoting Argonaut (Reply 36):
One question: do ICAO codes bear any relationship to radio transmitter callsigns?

Yes - ICAO codes were initially assigned based upon the radio transmitter identification assigned to airports. The system has been adjusted and tuned significantly.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 37):
Personally I think it makes sense to stick to one set of codes, eg IATA is two letters for Airlines and three letters for airports. I wish we could decide on just one set of abbreviations.

Many of us who deal with where aircraft go recognize ICAO codes more than IATA codes. A significant large group of airports do not have IATA codes because they do not have commercial air service, or never had such service.

Remember - the ICAO code is a physical airport or weather reporting station. The IATA code is a billing location which can apply to more than one airport.

I've heard for years that IATA is supposedly phasing out the 3 letter code system for airports and 2 letter/number codes for airlines because both systems are running up against limits on the available codes. The biggest issue with the transition is the software which is written with only two and three spaces in the databases. But I've seen nothing to indicate when such a transition might actually occur.

dbo861 · Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:52 am

I just noticed this one in my Jepps:

ICAO: KIWA
FAA: AZA

I guess the ICAO for Williams Gateway in Mesa is staying the same, but the FAA got changed. Was this all due to Allegiant?

Cubsrule · Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:45 am

Quoting Dbo861 (Reply 44):
I guess the ICAO for Williams Gateway in Mesa is staying the same, but the FAA got changed. Was this all due to Allegiant?

IIRC the original plan was to change all of them, and at some point the folks at Williams Gateway decided it was just going to be too complicated.

BlueElephant · Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:59 am

St. Thomas is always an Interesting one.

Some people think it is KSTT but it is actually TIST.

I got into an argument with a customs officer about that once.

Probably because he felt that St. Thomas is USA's 51st state or something.

AussieItaliano · Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:05 am

Quoting Argonaut (Reply 36):
Don't know why people don't get it...using "England" to mean "UK" is like using "Texas" when you're speaking of the entire USA...

Probably because the capital city is located in England, and when people over here in the US think of the UK, they think of London. Although I know it's incorrect to use the terms Britain and England to mean the same thing, it's a common mistake.

I've also gotten upset at the use of the word America to mean the USA. America goes all the way from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego.

bond007 · Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:16 am

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 34):
Grrr! EGxx is Britain NOT ENGLAND! I get really ratty England is not a sovereign state! My old home Edinburgh has the ICAO code EGPH last I heard it was still in Scotland which is part of Britain....not England!

Oh, lighten up. Only a few Haggis eating, bagpipe blowing folks, and a couple of sheep farmers who live in towns with rather long place names seem to worry. If you had your way, Scotland would probably have it's own ICAO code.

The USA don't know much about the rest of the world, except Canada and Mexico, and Cuba. A gas station attendant once asked my English (or British?) speaking buddy if he was from London, or from England ... he said yes.

Jimbo

Baron52ta · Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:22 am

Quoting BWilliams (Reply 28):
England (EG-),

Not England but Europa Great Britain

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