gospelle
Topic Author
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777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:46 pm

Here is a snip from an eye witness of today's crash landing of a 777 in London:
***
And then [the plane] belly-flopped into the runway where the undercarriage collapsed and it careered skidding down the runway.

[It] appeared to be on a straight line, the doors appeared to open on impact.

***

Is this a feature on the 777 or must it have been fast acting passengers?
 
2H4
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:55 pm



Quoting Gospelle (Thread starter):
Is this a feature on the 777 or must it have been fast acting passengers?

Doors opening on impact? Sounds more like a confused eyewitness.

2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
A10WARTHOG
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:56 pm



Quoting Gospelle (Thread starter):
[It] appeared to be on a straight line, the doors appeared to open on impact.

Door are not to open automatically. They will open quicker because of the assist bottle, but you do not want them to open automatically due to water landing, fire, etc.
 
DH8PU
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:37 pm

Just a very orginzied crew doing their job to the best of their ability.
Cabin secure and doors checked
 
gospelle
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:38 pm



Quoting A10WARTHOG (Reply 2):
Door are not to open automatically. They will open quicker because of the assist bottle, but you do not want them to open automatically due to water landing, fire, etc.

Understood. I was wondering more along the lines of a "button" the pilot had up front. But even then, I guess he wouldn't know which exits were blocked by fire or not. Must have just been fast passengers. It's great they exited such a large plane so quickly and without serious injury.

I did notice in one photo: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7194201.stm (Picture #10) where the wind had "flipped up" the exit slide. This could be a serious problem in the right conditions. Is this a design flaw?
 
kaddyuk
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:39 pm



Quoting DH8PU (Reply 3):
Just a very orginzied crew doing their job to the best of their ability.

Exactly...
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
Markhkg
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:49 pm



Quoting Gospelle (Reply 4):
where the wind had "flipped up" the exit slide. This could be a serious problem in the right conditions. Is this a design flaw?

Wind has always been a problem for evacuation slides. I remember a similar photo of a Pan Am Boeing 747 overwing exit back in the day flip up like that. A major problem in the past is the slide deploying under the fuselage due to heavy winds.

However, the slides are now designed to deploy in up to 25 knot winds. This is done by having the slide deploy in "stages" with a clip that holds the end of the slide to the body until sufficient inflation is achieved. Other photos show the BA 777 exit has deployed properly; a person probably just needs to hold it down and it'll be fine.
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:56 pm



Quoting Gospelle (Thread starter):
Here is a snip from an eye witness

Untrained eyewitnesses are worthless. You can have 12 eyewitnesses and all 12 will tell a different story. Anything they say can be taken with a grain of salt. The news media loves them because they tend to be emotional but investigators put little credence on what they say.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
tdscanuck
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:02 pm



Quoting Gospelle (Reply 4):
I did notice in one photo: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7194201.stm (Picture #10) where the wind had "flipped up" the exit slide. This could be a serious problem in the right conditions. Is this a design flaw?

It's not really a design flaw, more of a known issue with large light objects hanging out in the wind. It's part of the reason why the evacuation test has to be done with only half the exits.

Tom.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:19 pm



Quoting Gospelle (Reply 4):
where the wind had "flipped up" the exit slide. This could be a serious problem in the right conditions. Is this a design flaw?

The slides are not completely airtight. They are designed to inflate, and stay inflated for the 90secs it takes to evacuate. Then they will slowly leak down, and get blown by the wind.

Quoting Gospelle (Reply 4):
I was wondering more along the lines of a "button" the pilot had up front.

there is no master control. Each door will only open when the handle is turned. Also on the B777 there are "flight locks" on every door to stop it opening. They are deactivated at 80kts.
 
gospelle
Topic Author
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:20 pm



Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 9):
Each door will only open when the handle is turned. Also on the B777 there are "flight locks" on every door to stop it opening. They are deactivated at 80kts.

80kts as measured by what?
the wheels? (if so, what happens in a skid, or when the wheels break off or do not deploy)
air speed? (if so, what happens on a very windy day?)
something else?
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:05 am



Quoting Gospelle (Reply 10):
80kts as measured by what?

The IRS.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:37 am

its probably the Crew aware of the situation & manually opening them.
Eyewitness if not aware of Aircraft details can be misleading most times.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
flymatt2bermud
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:39 pm

Has anyone heard any theories on why the 777 landed short?
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
gospelle
Topic Author
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:04 pm



Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 11):


Quoting Gospelle (Reply 10):
80kts as measured by what?

The IRS.

The what??
 
KELPkid
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:17 pm



Quoting FlyMatt2Bermud (Reply 13):
Has anyone heard any theories on why the 777 landed short?

Too many. I suggest you read the four threads in civ/av...
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
wjcandee
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:29 pm



Quoting Gospelle (Reply 14):

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 11):


Quoting Gospelle (Reply 10):
80kts as measured by what?

The IRS.

The what??

IRS = Inertial Reference System.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:37 pm



Quoting FlyMatt2Bermud (Reply 13):
Has anyone heard any theories on why the 777 landed short?

Loss of engine power on short final is the leading contender so far. Speculation as to why they lost engine power is wide open.

Tom.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:41 pm

I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:29 am



Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 9):
The slides are not completely airtight. They are designed to inflate, and stay inflated for the 90secs it takes to evacuate. Then they will slowly leak down, and get blown by the wind.

Not completely (thats pretty hard to do) but they are airtight.... hence why they are called sliderafts.... ie in a ditching the slide becomes a raft.... wouldn't be much use if it deflated after 90 seconds!! They do have ways of manually keeping them inflated of course but they are designed to remain inflated for many hours if not days.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
Markhkg
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:17 am



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 19):
sliderafts

Not all evacuation slides are slide/rafts. Some are only "flotation devices" rather than an actual raft. Slide/rafts are typically designed to be wider, have a means to enter the raft with a ladder, and have an external canopy that can be erected.

But, regardless, they do stay inflated for a long time, so long as there isn't extremes in heat and cold. In a raft situation they do have a pump to top up the air.
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
redflyer
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:41 am



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 15):
I suggest you read the four threads in civ/av...

Try five. Soon to be six at the rate it's going.
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
KELPkid
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:27 am



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 21):
Try five. Soon to be six at the rate it's going.

It was four when I posted that  Wink
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scbriml
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:32 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 7):
You can have 12 eyewitnesses and all 12 will tell a different story.

Indeed. The astonishing thing for this frequent flyer was how many of the pax we saw interviewed on TV said they were unaware it was a crash landing!  Wow!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:56 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 23):

Indeed. The astonishing thing for this frequent flyer was how many of the pax we saw interviewed on TV said they were unaware it was a crash landing!

But they did think it was the fastest and most efficient plane de-boarding they ever experienced, though the distance that the plane parked from the gate left much to be desired.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
gospelle
Topic Author
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:00 am



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 24):
Quoting Scbriml (Reply 23):

Indeed. The astonishing thing for this frequent flyer was how many of the pax we saw interviewed on TV said they were unaware it was a crash landing!

But they did think it was the fastest and most efficient plane de-boarding they ever experienced, though the distance that the plane parked from the gate left much to be desired.

And they're still waiting for their luggage!
 
iwok
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:00 am



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 23):
Indeed. The astonishing thing for this frequent flyer was how many of the pax we saw interviewed on TV said they were unaware it was a crash landing!

Having grown up in the colonies, I learned to love the English stiff upper lip.

"Ahh, a crash you say? By jove, and all I though was that we had hit a wee bit of turbulence on the way down. Splendid. Tee off at five. Ta ta old boy"

 Smile

iwok
 
avioniker
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:49 am

Anybody besides me notice that the fan is only slightly fractured on the #1 engine and the #2 appears intact?

If there was fuel available I'd like to forward the speculation of a FADEC failure causing uncommanded shutdown. Anyone else?

 Silly
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
 
avioniker
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:50 pm

Sorry
I moved my two cents over to the other thread on the subject.  

 

[Edited 2008-01-20 14:05:41]
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
 
KELPkid
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:16 pm



Quoting Avioniker (Reply 27):
Anybody besides me notice that the fan is only slightly fractured on the #1 engine and the #2 appears intact?

If there was fuel available I'd like to forward the speculation of a FADEC failure causing uncommanded shutdown. Anyone else?


Well, in a recip bird, a lack of engine/prop damage usually signifies that the engines weren't under power at the time of the accident...wonder if there's any correlation here?
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:53 am



Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 20):
Not all evacuation slides are slide/rafts. Some are only "flotation devices" rather than an actual raft. Slide/rafts are typically designed to be wider, have a means to enter the raft with a ladder, and have an external canopy that can be erected.

But, regardless, they do stay inflated for a long time, so long as there isn't extremes in heat and cold. In a raft situation they do have a pump to top up the air.

On 777 they all are...
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:41 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 23):
Indeed. The astonishing thing for this frequent flyer was how many of the pax we saw interviewed on TV said they were unaware it was a crash landing!

How many of these were 1st timers  Smile
Looking at the wreckage they ought to have known.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Thrust
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:58 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 7):

Agreed. A classic example of this is TWA Flight 800. What people thought may have been a missle heading for the plane was likely either the plane's nose falling off or the vapor trails the engines left I guess as the wings bled out fuel after the first explosion and subsequent break-up of the 747.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
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litz
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:32 pm



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 15):
Too many. I suggest you read the four threads in civ/av...

up to seven now (and 100+ posts into #7 at that) ...

- litz
 
avioniker
Posts: 1100
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:05 pm

Quoting Avioniker (Reply 27):
Anybody besides me notice that the fan is only slightly fractured on the #1 engine and the #2 appears intact?

I stand (sort of) corrected. . .
 
BA38 #2
BA38#1


[Edited 2008-01-24 10:08:00]
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
 
KELPkid
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:04 pm



Quoting Avioniker (Reply 34):
I stand (sort of) corrected. . .

Wonder if mud injestion tests are performed for certification or by the manufacturer  bigthumbsup 
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: 777 Crash At LHR. Auto Exit?

Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:40 pm



Quoting Avioniker (Reply 34):
Quoting Avioniker (Reply 27):
Anybody besides me notice that the fan is only slightly fractured on the #1 engine and the #2 appears intact?

I stand (sort of) corrected. . .

I really think this a red herring. One of the engines has ingested some landing lights, and one hasn't.
Doesn't prove that one was running and one not.

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