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nema
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Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:15 pm

Many of us have seen videos and the effect of Jet Blast.


I wonder if an aircraft could effectively be lifted into the air by being too close behind another aircraft on full throttle.

Its a little bit like the simulated skydiving you can do on jets of air only horizontally.

Any Ideas?

[Edited 2008-02-02 07:17:48]
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pjflysfast
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:20 pm

Yes, this had been documented several times with Heavy jets lifting and at times flipping small general aviation aircraft behind it. My bet is 2H4 has a few photos in his library!
 
Ceph
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:21 pm

If I'm not wrong, it could... A heavy aircraft can flip a light aircraft...
 
nema
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:25 pm

Yep, I understand that any obstacle could get flipped but i was leaning more towards... could an aircraft maybe become airborne in the jet blast rather than flipped. Sufficient wind moving over the wings to create lift so to speak.
There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
 
zanl188
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:31 pm

Quoting NEMA (Reply 3):
could an aircraft maybe become airborne in the jet blast rather than flipped

"Airborne" and "Flipped", in this instance, are the same thing....

[Edited 2008-02-02 07:33:04]
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:31 pm

I've been bumped around in a CR2 several times as a 757 or larger continues it's taxi in front of of from a dead stop.
What gets measured gets done.
 
wilco737
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:58 pm

I like doing that: a small jet behind us and then set 80% N1 on the 3 engines and then hear them complaining Big grin Big grin

Just kidding!!!!

Sure its possible, once the jetblast is fast enough (high thrust setting) the airflow above the wing will be enough to let the aircraft lift off. Happens as well during strong storms! Better tie your Cessna down before the next storm hits your airport Big grin

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N231YE
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:59 pm

Lets see this turn into another "Airplane on a Conveyor Belt" debate  wink 
 
wilco737
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:00 pm



Quoting N231YE (Reply 7):
Lets see this turn into another "Airplane on a Conveyor Belt" debate wink

 faint  OH NO.... Big grin

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HAWK21M
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:02 pm

Def would.Lift & flip over.
regds
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Tornado82
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:43 pm

I saw it happen to a not-tied-down Zodiac (or whatever those little quasi-LSA's are called) at ABE once. Luckily for the owner it did land right side up. A Challenger 600 series (you know, the original CRJ's) was heading out and as he throttled up to leave the ramp his engines were at a perfect angle to the Zodiac parked lonely on the ramp. It lifted up and hovered for a second or so before coming down relatively hard (though I've seen harder landings).
 
David L
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:23 pm



Quoting NEMA (Reply 3):
could an aircraft maybe become airborne in the jet blast rather than flipped. Sufficient wind moving over the wings to create lift so to speak.

Wouldn't it be difficult to maintain controlled flight in such a small, turbulent "blob" of moving air? Even if the crew were prepared, I suspect it would still turn into a flip almost immediately.
 
SNAFlyboy
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:31 pm



Quoting David L (Reply 11):
Wouldn't it be difficult to maintain controlled flight in such a small, turbulent "blob" of moving air?

I was wondering about that. Even if you managed NOT to flip over and maintained a reasonable attitude and sufficient lift, once you ascended out of that turbulent "blob" of air, you'd probably fall right back down when the airflow gave out. Any way you look at it, it's a pretty bad scenario...

But this is all hypothetically speaking of course... Who in their right mind would want to test this out? Big grin

~SNAFlyboy
 
L-188
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:26 pm



Quoting Nema (Thread starter):
I wonder if an aircraft could effectively be lifted into the air by being too close behind another aircraft on full throttle.

Hell yes,

I once saw two supercubs almost go flying once. The guys where bear guys for years and where picking up clients we where flying and where used to parking behind our 727, which had the stock motors. Lo and Behold one day they parked behind Amway's Corperate 727 that was hauling fmr. President Gerald Ford around. That aircraft had the -200 engine conversion, which means about 20k per side vs. 14K for our plane. The 727 started up and those supercubs (Riced up for Alaska Bush Flying) where really close to tumbling at idle thrust.

If Fords airplane had advanced the throttles to start taxing, those airplanes would have been turned into cotton and 4230 steel tube tumbleweeds.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
flymatt2bermud
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:54 pm

Here are two accidents involving the thrust of a Boeing 747 at Chicago, O'Hare. One involved a Beechcraft Baron 58 and the other a service vehicle. Both incidents involved fatalities to the pilot taxing the Baron and the driver of the truck.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X35859&key=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X15372&key=1
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
wilco737
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:56 pm



Quoting FlyMatt2Bermud (Reply 14):
Here are two accidents involving the thrust of a Boeing 747 at Chicago, O'Hare. One involved a Beechcraft Baron 58 and the other a service vehicle. Both incidents involved fatalities to the pilot taxing the Baron and the driver of the truck.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X35859&key=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X15372&key=1


"I just want you to know, we're all counting on you!"

Thank you for those links! very interesting!  thumbsup 

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flymatt2bermud
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:04 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 15):
very interesting!

Both interesting and sad, neither should have happened and easily could have been avoided.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
wilco737
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:06 pm



Quoting FlyMatt2Bermud (Reply 16):
Both interesting and sad, neither should have happened and easily could have been avoided.

Of course, you are right! That came out wrong what I Posted there!! I am a pilot myself and I usually dont like reading reports about accidents, it makes me feel bad... But I try to learn from them! To prevent something like that will happen to me!
I intend to be retired in 30 years without any bad emergencies! 4 years I made it without bigger problems! Thank god!!

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Mir
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:26 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 6):
Happens as well during strong storms! Better tie your Cessna down before the next storm hits your airport

We tried. We really did.

signed,

ERAU



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9VSIO
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:57 pm

That wasn't so much a storm as a tornado :P

Thankfully no one was hurt. And they got brand new G-1000 Cessna's as a result. Blessing in disguise?
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AAR90
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:33 pm



Quoting NEMA (Reply 3):
Yep, I understand that any obstacle could get flipped but i was leaning more towards... could an aircraft maybe become airborne in the jet blast rather than flipped. Sufficient wind moving over the wings to create lift so to speak.

What you are really asking about is could an airplane remain under control when lifted by jet blast. YES, but only for a very brief time (a couple of seconds at most). The jet blast area is relatively small compared to even small light civil airplanes and the airplane would quickly move out of the jet blast area into slow moving air and.... fall.... rapidly.

Quoting SNAFlyboy (Reply 12):
But this is all hypothetically speaking of course... Who in their right mind would want to test this out?

Nobody, but if you wait long enough you'll see the unintentional test at your nearby airport. Just yesterday an AA Captain was chastised on the radio for turning 1/2 way into gate-9 and stopping. ATC made it VERY CLEAR he was NOT to apply thrust until FIRST cleared by ATC to do so --jet blast directed onto TXY-C near approach end of 19L. I'll stop commenting on all the "stupid extra verbage" the ATC ground controllers have added at KSNA the last few years. We still have airline pilots with no concept of courtesy.  banghead   weeping 
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MDorBust
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:34 pm

This thread has given me visions of a sailplane tied by it's tow rope to the tailcome of a 747.
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pjflysfast
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:39 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 21):
This thread has given me visions of a sailplane tied by it's tow rope to the tailcome of a 747.

The sailplane had better have a swept wing. Better yet, retractable wings like a fighter! Sign me up!
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:28 pm



Quoting FlyMatt2Bermud (Reply 14):
Here are two accidents involving the thrust of a Boeing 747 at Chicago, O'Hare. One involved a Beechcraft Baron 58 and the other a service vehicle. Both incidents involved fatalities to the pilot taxing the Baron and the driver of the truck

I always thought about being "blown over" whenever I flew Cape Air in SJU. We would get pretty close to the heavies when we were taxiing, or maybe it just looked like it. What about their state-side operations. Anybody ever heard of any incidents.?
What gets measured gets done.
 
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c172akula
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RE: Could Jet Blast Lift Another Aircraft?

Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:55 pm

Here in YYC a couple of years back we had a student pilot in a 172 get airborne thanks to an Antonov 124 that had to start moving from a standstill. He ended up upside down after his very brief 'flight'!

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