Fantikerz
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Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:49 am

Hypothetically, would it be more efficient having an aircraft use reverse thrust to back out of a gate, as apposed to using a tug? Also, would there be any dangers for people on the ground, or in the aircraft? I'd imagine there would be some risks involved with throwing the engines in reverse at low speeds..

I've been thinking about this for a couple days, and would like any input  Smile


Fantikerz
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:59 am



Quoting Fantikerz (Thread starter):
Hypothetically, would it be more efficient having an aircraft use reverse thrust to back out of a gate, as apposed to using a tug?

In terms of fuel use, I'm sure the tug burns a whole lot less than the jets in reverse. Self-reverse certainly requires less ground equipment, but it has other issues.

Quoting Fantikerz (Thread starter):
Also, would there be any dangers for people on the ground, or in the aircraft?

Reverse thrust at the gate will suck up whatever is on the ground near the engine and blow it forward. If you have any FOD around it's a hazard for ground personnel and the engine (and the terminal building).

Quoting Fantikerz (Thread starter):
I'd imagine there would be some risks involved with throwing the engines in reverse at low speeds..

The two big concerns are blowing FOD around and getting a loop where the engine is inhaling its own exhaust, which often leads to a surge.

Tom.
 
dc10hound
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:04 am

Reversing From A Gate (by Captainsimon Mar 12 2007 in Tech Ops)?threadid=186254&searchid=186860&s=powerback#ID186860
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EMBQA
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:12 am



Quoting Fantikerz (Thread starter):
would it be more efficient having an aircraft use reverse thrust to back out of a gate, as apposed to using a tug?

LoL...!! Think about your question.....????

Using a Tug.... ZERO jet fuel burned.
TR back out.....Lots of jet fuel burned and risk of FOD damage.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
Fantikerz
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:41 am



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):
LoL...!! Think about your question.....????

I mean, would an aircraft that was able to reverse itself out of a gate, with the debris risk, be more practical than purchasing, using, and maintaining a tug, plus paying the operator?

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 1):
Reverse thrust at the gate will suck up whatever is on the ground near the engine and blow it forward. If you have any FOD around it's a hazard for ground personnel and the engine (and the terminal building).

Thanks for the info tom


Fantikerz
 
Jamie757
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:47 am

As posted above, a "powerback" poses a risk of FOD and possible injury to people on the ground, not to mention using a lot more fuel than a tug. When a powerback does or did happen, it tends or tended to be with tail mounted aircraft, namely the DC-9/MD-80. The risk of FOD is lower on these machines due to the engines being mounted fairly high and not slung under the wing.

http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircra..._Airlines_Aviation_Video-5600.html

http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircra...t_Airlines_Aviation_Video-799.html

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EMBQA
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:48 am



Quoting Fantikerz (Reply 4):
I mean, would an aircraft that was able to reverse itself out of a gate, with the debris risk, be more practical than purchasing, using, and maintaining a tug, plus paying the operator?

DC-9's, MD-80's- and 727's have been doing it for years and years.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
KingAir200
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:53 am



Quoting Fantikerz (Reply 4):
I mean, would an aircraft that was able to reverse itself out of a gate, with the debris risk, be more practical than purchasing, using, and maintaining a tug, plus paying the operator?

NWA found pushbacks to be more efficient than powerbacks with the DC-9. The saving of Jet-A is well worth the cost of buying and maintaining the pushback and paying the operator. Besides, you aren't paying any extra people to do it because you would still need a marshal and guideperson just as you would with a powerback.
 
SNAFlyboy
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:18 am

Personally, I'd be scared to death of hitting or blowing something away on my way out of the gate. Based on my experience, there are a number of airlines/contractors out there who either don't use wing-walkers or are negligent about their use and, as always, accidents do happen. If you're being pushed back by a tug, at least the tug operator can see where he or she is going and obstacles behind the aircraft...to some degree, anyway.

And just imagine trying to powerback from some of those infamous gates crammed into a corner at the far end of the airport! Ouch. :D I guess they could make exceptions there...

~SNAFlyboy

[Edited 2008-02-11 18:20:39]
 
mark5388916
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:24 am



Quoting Jamie757 (Reply 5):
The risk of FOD is lower on these machines due to the engines being mounted fairly high and not slung under the wing.

Welll... usually I would say so.. however I saw this one plane doing it in person....



Mark
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IAHFLYR
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:21 am



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):
Using a Tug.... ZERO jet fuel burned.
TR back out.....Lots of jet fuel burned and risk of FOD damage.

Makes common sense, PRICELESS!!!
 checkmark 
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:51 am



Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 7):
NWA found pushbacks to be more efficient than powerbacks with the DC-9.

If that is so than why does NWA still employ the procedure on the DC-9.?
 
jamman
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:27 pm



Quoting Mark5388916 (Reply 9):
however I saw this one plane doing it in person....

Now thats an impressive stopping distance!
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PITingres
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:31 pm



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 11):
If that is so than why does NWA still employ the procedure on the DC-9.?

Time, possibly. I've only been passenger in a few powerbacks (always FL 717's in ATL), but subjectively I'd guess that we were on our way at least 3 minutes quicker, vs the usual pushback. (Purely subjective, if anyone has observed time savings I'd be mildly interested in the numbers.) 3 minutes might be the difference between hitting a gap, and sitting in line for another 20.
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KingAir200
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:46 pm



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 11):
If that is so than why does NWA still employ the procedure on the DC-9.?

I haven't done or seen one in awhile. Now that doesn't mean that they don't exist today, but I am quite sure that they are in the minority.
 
71Zulu
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:36 pm

My last 2 NW DC9 flights both did powerbacks from the gate.

Heard FL on the radio a month or so back asking ground for powerback approval at MSY for "training purposes" so still going on.
 
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777wt
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:43 pm

On one flight in the early 90's, AA had a flight from MIA-AUA with a MD-80, this was before the pilots came close to striking.

I was sitting near the back of the plane and 2 engines came online, then they annouced they don't have a pushback bar for the the aircraft type and will be reversing on it's own. Felt the engine spool up, plane moved foward a few feets then all of a sudden, they roared and the whole plane started moving backwards and the wing walkers were covering their faces with their arms and there was alot of sand/dirt being kicked up into the air from my window...about 5 seconds later it rolled to a stop then turned left onto the taxiway.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:07 pm



Quoting Mark5388916 (Reply 9):
Quoting Jamie757 (Reply 5):
The risk of FOD is lower on these machines due to the engines being mounted fairly high and not slung under the wing.

Welll... usually I would say so.. however I saw this one plane doing it in person....

The engines on a C-17 are farther off the ground than most commercial aircraft with tail-mounted engines, so most of the same FOD arguments apply.

Quoting Jamman (Reply 12):
Now thats an impressive stopping distance!

The C-17 has a very cool descent profile...you can see in the video that they basically don't flare at all. They use FBW spoilers to arrest the descent rate without a flare. As a result, they can consistently plant the plane exactly where they want to without worrying about floating and eating up runway.

Tom.
 
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:11 pm



Quoting SNAFlyboy (Reply 8):
Personally, I'd be scared to death of hitting or blowing something away on my way out of the gate. Based on my experience, there are a number of airlines/contractors out there who either don't use wing-walkers or are negligent about their use and, as always, accidents do happen. If you're being pushed back by a tug, at least the tug operator can see where he or she is going and obstacles behind the aircraft...to some degree, anyway.

And just imagine trying to powerback from some of those infamous gates crammed into a corner at the far end of the airport! Ouch. Big grin I guess they could make exceptions there...

~SNAFlyboy

As many others have pointed out, powerback is an authorized maneuver in several aircraft at several operators. Other operators of the same aircraft prohibit powerbacks specifically, and many aircraft are not authorized to do them for a variety of reasons. I have personally done powerbacks in DC-9s on numerous occasions and have never had a problem with the maneuver. Having said that, it IS a maneuver that requires practice as touching the brakes during the powerback can result in sitting the aircraft on its tail.

With all due respect, SNAFlyboy, qualified marshallers are required for all powerbacks (for all operators where I have been involved with them), and there are certain gates where they are not authorized. Your experience in this case is likely of only marginal relevance. Accidents happen when tug drivers push the aircraft into obstacles or when wingwalkers don't clear the area on taxi in, too. Accidents happen in all phases of flight, and that's a reason to always be vigilant on the ramp, not a reason to ban a procedure that has been executed safely and skillfully for decades.

As for my own preference, I prefer not to do powerbacks as they burn a lot of fuel, make a lot of noise, and can cause FOD issues. With that in mind, it's a nice procedure to have in your hip pocket when you're at an outstation that has exactly one tug that is suddenly broken. Your passengers will definitely appreciate the flexibility in that situation, a situation I have seen several times in my career.
 
SNAFlyboy
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:49 pm

With respect, PGNCS, I was just stating what I have unfortunately seen and worked around. Just because my experience differs from yours doesn't make it "marginally relevant". I'm sure powerbacks are perfectly safe when properly trained for and the ramp area is clear, and the process probably occurs daily without a hitch! Like you stated, should some misfortune befall the tug, it's nice to have a backup plan (no pun intended) if your aircraft happens to be qualified for powerbacks.

Also, I was just kidding about powerbacks in those special, confined gates or any other non-authorized gate for that matter. Why risk it if there's a chance of damaging the aircraft, other structures or other aircraft if you have a tug right there, right?... If it isn't authorized, there's probably a reason!  eyebrow 

Quoting Mark5388916 (Reply 9):
Welll... usually I would say so.. however I saw this one plane doing it in person....

Only one word for that video: Show-offs. Big grin Very impressive, though...

~SNAFlyboy
 
bond007
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:08 pm



Quoting SNAFlyboy (Reply 19):
should some misfortune befall the tug, it's nice to have a backup plan (no pun intended)

Very good  Smile


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PGNCS
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:21 am



Quoting SNAFlyboy (Reply 19):
With respect, PGNCS, I was just stating what I have unfortunately seen and worked around. Just because my experience differs from yours doesn't make it "marginally relevant". I'm sure powerbacks are perfectly safe when properly trained for and the ramp area is clear, and the process probably occurs daily without a hitch! Like you stated, should some misfortune befall the tug, it's nice to have a backup plan (no pun intended) if your aircraft happens to be qualified for powerbacks.

I have worked on the ramp, flown, and been around aircraft for a long time, and my point about your comment was that you took a personal experience of a very general nature ("there are a number of airlines/contractors out there who either don't use wing-walkers or are negligent about their use") and extrapolated them to a very specific, well trained maneuver that has rigorous rules of compliance under FAR 121; that's why I said your experience was marginally relevant. I made my statement from specific, firsthand knowledge of the procedure in question. I am not saying your experience is bad, its just not especially germane to the discussion at hand.
 
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:10 am



Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 15):
My last 2 NW DC9 flights both did powerbacks from the gate.

What stations, out of curiousity? I thought they had been totally eliminated from the hubs at least; I think the last time I did one was May, 2006 at MEM.
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ualramper
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:14 am

I used to see other airlines do powerbacks with the MD80s when I first started at United but its been a while since I have seen one done...maybe 5 years or more.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:31 am

Unless the Tug is not in place,then it could be considered for Tail mounted engined Aircraft.although wing mounted aircraft can powerback too,but remember to stop using Fwd thrust & NO the brakes.

Damage to the surrounding due FOD & reduction in Engine life needs to be considered too.

regds
MEL
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71Zulu
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:42 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 22):
What stations, out of curiousity? I thought they had been totally eliminated from the hubs at least; I think the last time I did one was May, 2006 at MEM.

January 2006 and both times at MEM; haven't been on the 9 since so not sure if they are still doing them.
 
KingAir200
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:24 pm



Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 25):
January 2006 and both times at MEM; haven't been on the 9 since so not sure if they are still doing them.

Ah, ok. The no powerbacks thing was put into place after Jan 2006.
 
access-air
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:46 pm

I actually think that Eastern Airlines was the pioneer of the Powerback and I believe they used to do this with their DC9s 727s and even thier 757s....
I have been on an Ozark DC9 that powered back at STL as well as TWA.. I have watched NW do them at Moline and DTW....I dont see anything wrong with powerbacks as long as they executed safely.
I actually think that its a cool thing to be in the plane when you do it...

The roll forward is to bring the aircraft out of dead stop and off the flat spots on the tyres then the buckets are deployed and you start going back slowly as the power increases....I have a tapre recording of my powerback on the TWA flight....

It seems to work better with target type or bucket reversers as I have not seen any done with the cascade type that are common on the hi-bypass erngines such as a 737-300.... I will also say that I have never seen a 737-200 do a powerback....

Access-Air
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bond007
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:28 pm



Quoting Access-Air (Reply 27):
as well as TWA

TWA did all the time at MCI, early to mid 90's.


Jimbo
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2H4
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:34 pm

Has anyone ever seen or heard of a commercial widebody doing a powerback?

Edit - Russia, I'm looking in your direction....  eyebrow 

2H4

[Edited 2008-02-13 12:47:10]
Intentionally Left Blank
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:45 pm



Quoting Access-Air (Reply 27):
I will also say that I have never seen a 737-200 do a powerback....

I assume that's due to FOD concerns, though there may be another reason I'm missing.
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bond007
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:02 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 30):
I assume that's due to FOD concerns, though there may be another reason I'm missing.

Presumably, although really the same as FOD issues, isn't it just inherently unsafe having any engine running at that power level close to the gate, rampers, vehicles etc.?

I'm assuming that the engine power involved in a powered pushback is much more than that used for just taxying forward, correct?

Jimbo
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IAHFLYR
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:28 pm



Quoting Access-Air (Reply 27):
even thier 757s....

You kiddin?? WOW, bet those motors sucked up anything near by.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:04 am



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 31):
Presumably, although really the same as FOD issues, isn't it just inherently unsafe having any engine running at that power level close to the gate, rampers, vehicles etc.?

Toward the end, I feel like NW was mostly doing powerbacks at hubs, maybe for this very reason (i.e. that hub staff were better about clearing out the necessary area).
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babybus
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:40 am

The last time I took a Fnnair MD80 flight from KOK in Finland, the pilots used reverse thrust to push back.

It was done again another time when the aircraft didn't have enough turning space at the end of the runway to line up properly.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:21 am



Quoting Access-Air (Reply 27):
even thier 757s....

Wouldn't the R/T cover a large area in front,Are these P&W or RB211s.

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 27):
I will also say that I have never seen a 737-200 do a powerback....



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 30):
I assume that's due to FOD concerns, though there may be another reason I'm missing

I've seen a powerback on a B732.Just remember stop the aircraft with Fwd thrust & NOT the brakes.

Not advisable to powerback a B732 due to FOD & life reduction of the powerplant.

regds
MEL
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helvknight
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:37 pm

Back in the day I was on a couple of AA F100s that came off the gate at outstations using powerback.

Also I was on an OK ATR that came off the remote stand at PRG using reverse thrust last year so it does still go on. (I know an ATR isn't a jet so there's less chance of FOD)
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KingAir200
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:36 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 33):
Toward the end, I feel like NW was mostly doing powerbacks at hubs,

Likely due to the fact that very few, if any, gates at MSP, DTW and MEM are taxi out gates, so a pushback or powerback is needed. Being a hub, you are obviously busier and have less pushback tugs per aircraft, so why not have aircraft that are equipped to powerback do so. Also, the heyday of powerbacks was when NWA used only mechanics to do pushbacks, not regular ESEs like they do now. So round about departure time, you'd have to make sure the mechanic was over to do the pushback. Powerbacks didn't require a mechanic, freeing them up to attend to gates where non-powerback airplanes were. Of course, that all made sense before the price of fuel became so expensive.
 
AAR90
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:57 pm



Quoting Fantikerz (Reply 4):
I mean, would an aircraft that was able to reverse itself out of a gate, with the debris risk, be more practical than purchasing, using, and maintaining a tug, plus paying the operator?

Not anymore. That is why AA stopped the practice...though it is still "authorized" at most AA gates.

Quoting SNAFlyboy (Reply 19):
Show-offs. Very impressive, though...

Not really...especially after you've seen an E-2 back up 1/2 the plane over the side of a moving pitching carrier flight deck. Now that's impressive --unless you're sitting in the plane at the time.  Wink
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2H4
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:01 pm



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 38):
Not really...especially after you've seen an E-2 back up 1/2 the plane over the side of a moving pitching carrier flight deck.

That doesn't count. In any discussion regarding impressive operations in the world of aviation, Naval Aviation ranks so high it is automatically excluded.  Wink

2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
BAE146QT
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:39 pm



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):
LoL...!! Think about your question.....????

Using a Tug.... ZERO jet fuel burned.
TR back out.....Lots of jet fuel burned and risk of FOD damage.

Think about the economics. If you don't have to pay for a tug, don't have to pay for the crew, the maint and the Diesel it uses. Then the kero burned starts to look attractive, I should think.

FOD, of course is a different matter. And I bet there's a couple of Air Florida pilots sitting on a cloud up there wishing they hadn't powered back their 73 in a blizzard.

Quoting Mark5388916 (Reply 9):
however I saw this one plane doing it in person....

Awesome, even in a little window. Many thanks for sharing, Mark. Care to guess the distance of that rollout?
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:22 am



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):
Using a Tug.... ZERO jet fuel burned.

Not to be an ass, but our tugs are fueled with Jet-A.
What gets measured gets done.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:51 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 35):
Wouldn't the R/T cover a large area in front,Are these P&W or RB211s.

Eastern Had Rolls powered 757's and yes I used to see them powerback at EWR when I used to work there. I never saw any other airline there do it except Eastern. I think because EWR really does not have the room to execute powerbacks. Eastern was at the end of the satellite on term B I believe and they would power straight back toward the taxiway not very far and turn out. NW never allowed powerbacks in an aircraft larger the the 727.

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 27):
It seems to work better with target type or bucket reversers as I have not seen any done with the cascade type that are common on the hi-bypass engines such as a 737-300

You would think so but actually the 727 with the cascade reversers were pretty fast in reverse you had to watch it close. Also the rest of your post was right on target also. You always have the inclination to try to brake to stop not something you can do on a powerback without consequences. You definately had to be diciplined to use the forward thrust to slow down and stop especially on the tail heavy 727.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:08 am



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 42):
Eastern Had Rolls powered 757's and yes I used to see them powerback at EWR when I used to work there.

How was the FOD to the Area like  Smile

How was Grd communication done at the time of powerback?

regds
MEL.
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stratosphere
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:05 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 43):
How was the FOD to the Area like

How was Grd communication done at the time of powerback?

I really don't know about the FOD issue. They may have had personnel to do a FOD walk every so often. Also from what I could see the powerback was done much like it was at NW. The crew flashes their nose taxi light to let the marshaller know he had clearance to do the powerback and then he/she would direct the pilot to come forward to get off the flat spot and use their wands or hands in day ops to initiate the powerback. At NW they use a rolling hand over hand to signal the flt crew to engage reverse and then when they have gone far enough the wave they stop the hand over hand and take both arms extended and retract them to signal the crew to come forward. Once the backward momentum has stopped and the aircraft starts to come forward the marshaller will salute the crew and then the crew takes over and usually follows the ramp tower directions to a designated spot where they will call ATC ground for further instructions.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:49 pm



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 44):

How is wing walking taken care off during powerback on such type aircraft.Is there a system in place to cater to an emergency stop,or would one crew member look at the marshaller throughout the powerback.

regds
MEL
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longhauler
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:48 pm



Quoting Access-Air (Reply 27):
I will also say that I have never seen a 737-200 do a powerback....

At Canadi>n we used to do powerbacks on the B737-200s. It was not normal practise, but mainly when flying to stations in the United States, when flying the B737C (in a full pax configuration). These aircraft were gravel kit equipped for Arctic flying and the nose gear was different. These stations would not normally have the special towbar required.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 30):
I assume that's due to FOD concerns, though there may be another reason I'm missing.

Other than the fuel used, and the nose "tip up" mentioned .. yes FOD is the big concern. These gravel equipped aircraft had vortex dissipators which did well to avoid FOD. Also, as we were usually handled by AA, and they were common powerback users, the ramp staff swept the area clear as a normal practise before powerback.
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:33 pm

As seen here:


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stratosphere
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:35 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 45):
How is wing walking taken care off during powerback on such type aircraft.Is there a system in place to cater to an emergency stop,or would one crew member look at the marshaller throughout the powerback

The pilot takes his direction from the marshaller infront and there are wingwalkers who put thier arms out straight to indicate to the lead marshaller that it is clear to procede. in the event that a wingwalker drops his arms(indicating a problem) the lead marshaller would immediately bring the a/c out of reverse into forward thrust or cross his arms as a last resort which would cause the pilot to immediately apply brakes which if it is in reverse you could put it on it's tail or hurt any flt att that are unsecured.
 
mark5388916
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RE: Reverse Thrust For Pushback?

Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:55 am



Quoting Jamman (Reply 12):

Yes... It most definitely was. I was standing where the T/Rs unlocked on landing and all I can say is DAMN

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 17):

Yeah, it looked like it landed in the same general areas both times It landed.

Mark
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