Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
KingAirMan
Topic Author
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:33 am

Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:40 am

Does anyone have any pilots at their airport who really arent "welcome" on airport grounds? Any stories of people doing dumb things and getting a bad rep?

Recently there have been a few at my airport and I find them quite amusing. I dont like when safety is put on the line, but when people finally get caught for the stupid things they do then it is rather satisfying to watch them have to pay the consequences.

Any stories ? Incidents ?


kingairman
 
jetstar
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:16 am

When I was working as a mechanic at an FBO, one of our tie down customers, a doctor (should I say more) owned a C-172. One day he and his teenage daughter came to the airport to go flying, but he had left the master switch on the last time he flew and the battery was dead. Instead of calling us to charge the battery he decided to hand prop the engine to get it started. He left his daughter in the passenger seat, opened the throttle one quarter of the way and hand propped the engine. The engine started and revved to about 1800 rpm and the airplane started moving fast. It hit 2 other airplanes, one a Baron and then went across both an active taxiway and runway, barely missing a landing turboprop airliner before it was finally stopped by going into a drainage ditch on the other side of the runway and flipping over on its back. The doctor suffered a broken wrist from the blade hitting is harm, his daughter was not hurt but the airplane had considerable damage.

I assisted the FAA inspectors in determining the ignition switch was functioning properly so the FAA said it was pilot error. The airplane was eventually repaired and I think he earned his lesson about hand propping an engine. We had numerous times when pilots with dead batteries would come into the shop and ask one of us to hand prop the airplane, my answer was always, I don’t hand prop airplanes, it’s too dangerous.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:58 am

I witnessed a Learjet pilot perform a low pass at a class D airport. He crossed the numbers at a very high rate of speed, flew about 30 feet above the runway, pulled up, and climbed at a very steep deck angle until he was no longer visible from the ground.

Later, at the FBO, he said that when he leveled off at 10,000', he was indicating 300 kts.

Before I knew better, a pilot from that same company took me for a ride in his Cessna 150. We flew over cornfields at cornstalk height and had to climb to clear telephone lines.

This guy also took a few people on a joyride during a Christmas party one night. He departed the class D airport (after the tower was closed), and flew a few very low approaches over the taxiway, essentially buzzing the FBO and getting cheers from all.

2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
metroliner
Posts: 846
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:35 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:09 pm

Cool stories! I have one similar to yours 2H4, where a guy from the airfield I worked at a few years ago used to fly about 3ft off the ground and then pull up at the last second to avoid the cars at the end of the field... in an ASH27 glider!

Then there was the one day he did it a little too late, pulled up too little, clipped the cypresses at the boundary fence and got a very stern talking to when he landed a few seconds later...

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 2):
high rate of speed

Isn't a 'rate of speed' an acceleration? Not to be a pedantic bugger, but as a student of English Literature and a former student of Physics I do find this turn of speech rather strange... see it a lot on a.net!

A rate is change in something / time, like a rate of velocity = acceleration etc. - or isn't it?  

Cheers  

Toni

[edit: oh, i'm confusing myself!]

[Edited 2008-03-02 11:19:17]
Set the controls for the heart of the Sun
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:36 pm



Quoting Metroliner (Reply 3):
Isn't a 'rate of speed' an acceleration?

Here's one of dictionary.com's definitions:

2) a certain quantity or amount of one thing considered in relation to a unit of another thing and used as a standard or measure: at the rate of 60 miles an hour.

The common definition might differ from the technically correct definition, though.

2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:14 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
The common definition might differ from the technically correct definition, though.

No, I think you're right... and I dunn fyzzicks.

Quoting Metroliner (Reply 3):
A rate is change in something / time, like a rate of velocity = acceleration etc

Rate of change of speed would be acceleration.  Smile
 
metroliner
Posts: 846
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:35 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:29 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
The common definition might differ from the technically correct definition, though.



Quoting David L (Reply 5):
Rate of change of speed would be acceleration.

I stand corrected - thanks guys, you should have seen my face trying to figure out that previous post... Big grin
Set the controls for the heart of the Sun
 
metroliner
Posts: 846
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:35 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:30 pm



Quoting Metroliner (Reply 6):
that previous post...

By which I mean, my previous post...

I need sleep!
Set the controls for the heart of the Sun
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12587
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:57 pm



Quoting Metroliner (Reply 3):
Isn't a 'rate of speed' an acceleration?



Quoting David L (Reply 5):
Rate of change of speed would be acceleration.

Technically, I think acceleration is defined as the rate of change of velocity, as acceleration is a vector, and speed is a scalar.

 duck 
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:03 pm



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 8):
Technically, I think acceleration is defined as the rate of change of velocity, as acceleration is a vector, and speed is a scalar.

 banghead  D'oh! Correct.

It was entrapment, Your Honour - they started with the "speed" thing.  duck 
 
N231YE
Posts: 2620
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:24 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:34 pm

I love how this thread has been totally derailed  wink 

Back on topic, I will say that some pilots that I know have tried to purposely break things on rented aircraft. One, supposedly spun an airplane around in circles (using differential braking, etc.) on a ramp after a long flight hoping to "damage" the brakes. Not really dumb, more of stupid if you ask me...and if those brakes did fail?...I could imagine the explanation to the FAA on that one.
 
KingAirMan
Topic Author
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:33 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:46 pm

We had a guy giving aircraft checkouts in an airplane that wasnt his, and he wasnt even an instructor.. So when someone he checked out crashes an airplane and well.. the FAA comes out.. thatll be one hell of a story
 
User avatar
TupolevTu154
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:00 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:53 pm



Quoting N231YE (Reply 10):
, I will say that some pilots that I know have tried to purposely break things on rented aircraft

I fail to see the point behind such an action? Care to enlighten?  Wink

Tom Big grin
 
N231YE
Posts: 2620
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:24 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:09 pm



Quoting TupolevTu154 (Reply 12):
I fail to see the point behind such an action? Care to enlighten?  

I have no idea. What kind of attitude creates such stupid actions just boggles my mind...
 
jetstar
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:35 pm

BACK ON TOPIC

I can think of a few dumb pilots stories from my JetStar days.

On one trip I was occupied with preflight and catering the JetStar before a trip from our home base at White Plains NY with the CEO of the company to Boeing Field Seattle with a stop over in Grand Rapids, MI to pick some more passengers, so the Chief Pilot said that he would take care in getting our computerized flight plan and filing it.

After departing GRR as we were flying over North Dakota, something didn’t look right with the remaining fuel on board and the amount of flying time left because we had done this trip a few times before. I examined the printout of the computer flight plan and found that the Chief Pilot had punched into the computer at the office BOI (Boise ID) instead of BFI (Seattle WA) as our final destination and had loaded the amount of fuel the computer said we needed to go to BOI. The Chief Pilot had to go back in the cabin and tell the CEO that he made a mistake and that we have to land in Missoula MT and get fuel. He lost many points with the CEO because the CEO had an important meeting and now he was going to be late.

On another trip which I was not on, when the airplane arrived back at base, the Chief Pilot told me that they had a fire warning come on for #3 engine and that they shut the engine down but the fire warning did not go out, so they discharged both fire bottles.

On the Pratt powered JetStars the engine compartment is divided into 2 zones, the forward zone where all the hydraulic fluid ,fuel and oil lines are located and is protected by the fire extinguishers and a fire is indicated by a flashing red light in the fire warning “T” handle. The aft zone separated from the forward zone by a firewall has no fire protection, the only thing that would set off the fire warning in a broken tail pipe or clamp and is indicated by a steady red light in the fire warning “T” handle. Each zone has a separate fire sensor loop, so one could not set another off.

The flight manual clearly says in case of a forward fire warning, pull the “T” handle which shuts all electrical, fuel and hydraulics to the engine and arms the fire bottles, if the fire does not go out then discharge the first bottle and if the light stays on discharge the second bottle and land as soon as possible. In case of an aft zone fire warning, the manual says to pull the engine back to idle, if the fire warning light does not go out, then shut the engine down, landing was not mandatory.

It turns out that he misread the fire warning light and discharged the fire bottles for an aft zone fire warning. JetStar’s came from the factory without any APU’s, they were added in the aft compartment during interior completion by outside companies under an STC. To install the Airesearch APU, the fire bottles had to be relocated, they were moved to an area in front of the APU where that you had to be under 5 feet tall and have 36” long arms to reach them, getting them out was tough, but getting them back in was extremely difficult because you had to support the bottle and fight all the rigid stainless steel lines that attached to the bottles. The fire bottles are about the size of a basketball and are electrically discharged by firing a 22 caliber bullet called a squid into a heavy metal disc than when shattered would allow the extinguishing agent to flow out into the steel lines to the engine selected when that engines “T” handle was pulled.

It took a good part of the day to get the bottles out, then I drove then to Long Island to have them recharged and re-certified and then almost the entire day to reinstall them
He apologized to me saying he really f**ked up on this and then basically stayed away from me for a few days because he knew how pissed I was at him.

On another time the JetStar was being flown by another company captain and first officer, somewhere over Georgia on the way back to HPN the #4 engine oil pressure dropped to zero, so they shut the engine down and continued back to base on three engines (nice to have 4 engines). This captain told me it was probably an indication problem but they shut the engine down as a precaution. When I open the lower nacelle door, I found the oil pressure transmitter had departed the engine and was held by the wires and there was oil all over the engine, the base of the transmitter was stripped out of the gearbox case probably due to over tightening during overhaul years before.

I called the engine overhaul shop that we use, they did not overhaul it before and they sent a loaner engine to us, during teardown they discovered that all the bearing in the engine and gearbox had gotten hot and damaged some of the housings where the bearing sit, resulting in over $10.000 dollars additional damage, has they landed immediately, all would have been needed was to replace the bearing and repair the stripped gear box case.

Another Chief Pilot screw up, when returning from a trip to Bermuda with the CEO of the company, we got to the airport early to get the airplane refueled and catered, while I was busy with this the passengers showed up a little bit early so the Chief Pilot helped them unload the luggage from the taxi and wheeled it over to the conveyer belt. During the flight back the CEO asked where was his attaché case because it was not in the cabin. The JetStar’s luggage compartment is just inside the entry door and is accessible during flight, so I unloaded some of the luggage but could not find his attaché case, it had important papers the CEO needed for a meeting the next morning. As soon as soon as we landed we called the Bermuda airport and they had found it, it turns out the Chief Pilot left the attaché case on the curb at the airport, they put it on the first airline flight out the next day and the office sent a courier to JFK to pick it up.

Another Dumb Pilot JetStar story. On time I flew a trip on another companies JetStar because their first officer was out sick, so I filled in for him for the day. The JetStar, like all retractable gear airplanes has a warning horn that goes off anytime an engine is pulled back to near idle except when the landing gear and flaps are extended for landing. Normal flight management on the JetStar to expedite decent is to pull the outboard engines back to idle and sometimes even a third engine, leaving one up to provide air for pressurization, usually #2. On the landing gear selector there is a warning horn override button to silence the horn before it goes off. The left seat pilot who has his right hands on the throttles cannot reach over and press the button at the same time he pulls the throttles back, so it’s the right seat pilot who presses the button as the left seat pilot retards the throttles, normally the left seat pilot just points to the button just before he pulls the power back as a signal to the right seat pilot to hold the button down. A lot of JetStar operators, including the 2 who I was with added another button on the left seat pilots left hand grip on the control wheel to silence the warning horn, this eliminated the need for the right seat pilot to hold the button down when needed.

On this JetStar the Chief Pilot, instead of installing this button, he cut out a small piece of plexiglass and attached it to one of the screws holding the landing gear selector in to instrument panel, he positioned it so it kept the button pressed down permanently thus disabling the warning horn system. It was illegal but it was not my airplane so I could care less. This Chief Pilot was actually proud of his over ride “modification” and that he didn’t have to spend any money on it.

They sold the JetStar a few months later and some time after that I was in Dallas with our JetStar having some work done on it. I saw this JetStar up on jacks in the hangar with the belly of the airplane, the bottom of the auxiliary fuel tanks and the trailing edge flaps torn up. Apparently the new owner of this JetStar never removed this piece of plastic and the pilots on one trip forgot to put the landing gear down and landed gear up. The FAA after their investigation cited the new owners for an unauthorized modification. Fortunately for them they didn’t damage the pressure vessel or the wings and some early JetStar’s were already being scrapped so parts to repair the airplane were available at a reasonable cost.

Some other quick dumb chief pilot stories

One JetStar chief pilot who stretched out the flight back from Europe with the CEO on board that he ran out of fuel as he was taxing off the runway and had to be towed to the hangar, he got fired for that one.

And there was another chief pilot of a large corporation who fired the pilot the chairman of the board liked the most, then got into an argument with the chairman over his firing of this pilot, needless to say this chief pilot was gone by the end of the week, what the hell could this chief pilot been thinking.

And there was a chief pilot on a turbo prop G1 during flight who smelled some smoke coming from the galley, so instead of pulling the circuit breakers he got a pair of diagonal cutters from the aircraft toolbox and cut all the wires to the galley, and this guy was also an A&P mechanic. The chief of maintenance almost went ballistic on this one, it was not just a few wires, but a fairly large bundle that he cut.

These are just a few that came to my mind.
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8573
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:48 am



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 14):
The fire bottles are about the size of a basketball and are electrically discharged by firing a 22 caliber bullet called a squid

That was a fantastic line up of tales. And, in true a.net fashion, since I have nothing else to contribute, I will nit pick. They're called "squibs", not "squids", unless you're using something a whole lot different than what I'm thinking of.

Tom.
 
jetstar
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:32 am



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 15):
They're called "squibs", not "squids", unless you're using something a whole lot different than what I'm thinking of.

Your right, its squibs, a typo error.
 
User avatar
tb727
Posts: 2219
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:40 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:48 am



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 14):
On this JetStar the Chief Pilot, instead of installing this button, he cut out a small piece of plexiglass and attached it to one of the screws holding the landing gear selector in to instrument panel, he positioned it so it kept the button pressed down permanently thus disabling the warning horn system. It was illegal but it was not my airplane so I could care less. This Chief Pilot was actually proud of his over ride “modification” and that he didn’t have to spend any money on it.


Holy crap, you had some really crappy Chief Pilots! I've always made the joke that we hang the trash bag on the horn silencer for the Falcon for the same purpose of the piece of plexiglass he put on there. Joking of course, I want to see what copilots would do it without thinking of the consequences. I'd rather hear the horn for a split second instead of the sound of the belly scrapping down the pavement and explaining that one.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 2):
I witnessed a Learjet pilot perform a low pass at a class D airport. He crossed the numbers at a very high rate of speed, flew about 30 feet above the runway, pulled up, and climbed at a very steep deck angle until he was no longer visible from the ground.

I think it is a Lear pilot thing. A lot of guys like to roll the things too, no way, there are only like 2 bolts holding that tail on. A scary thing I witnessed doing this was in OLS. Those of you that have never been there, there is a large mountain to the East of the runway where the terrain slopes up kinda quick which is why I won't go in there at night. So it's about 4am and dark, I was there on a passenger trip and some fellow freight dogs at our competitor are going to leave in a Lear 25. We were talking a bit to the guys and joking around about a good takeoff. So these guys taxi out and depart towards the mountain, hold it in ground effect until they get PAST the departure end of the runway at about 10-15 feet, then pop it up and climbed out, my Captain and I both got all nervous as soon as he kept going past the end of the runway low. I thought for sure we were going to see a fireball and their blood would have been on our hands.
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2406
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:29 am



Quoting KingAirMan (Reply 11):
We had a guy giving aircraft checkouts in an airplane that wasnt his, and he wasnt even an instructor

That wasnt out at LAF was it? If so, who did this?

Ive heard of someone at the local airfield who tried to fit 5 people into a 172, with one sitting in the baggage compartment. Ive also heard of the flight schools airplanes trying to take a corner too fast and skidding all over the place.
Life is better when you surf.
 
jetstar
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:54 am

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 17):
Holy crap, you had some really crappy Chief Pilots!

There are some really great Chief Pilots out there in corporate aviation, and some that check their brains at the door when they get promoted to the job, unfortunately for me I worked for 2 of the latter

One of them was the biggest asshole you could ever have met, he was on a real power trip. He eventually was fired, but a few years after I left the company

On my ground maintenance job on a Gulfstream jet, the Chief Pilot there was great to work for.

[Edited 2008-03-02 19:57:05]
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:49 am



Quoting N231YE (Reply 10):
Back on topic, I will say that some pilots that I know have tried to purposely break things on rented aircraft. One, supposedly spun an airplane around in circles (using differential braking, etc.) on a ramp after a long flight hoping to "damage" the brakes.

I know of one guy at one of my airlines (who has long since retired) who was at the gate for the last few pax to be loaded, and he started cycling one of the engine anti-ice valves on/off, on/off, about 50 times. Strangely enought, the valve quit working, and we had a mechanical on our hands, since icing conditions existed. From that point on, his namename became "Captain Sluggo" after the nemisis of "Mr. Bill" that was popular on SNL at the time.

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 14):
After departing GRR as we were flying over North Dakota, something didn’t look right with the remaining fuel on board and the amount of flying time left because we had done this trip a few times before. I examined the printout of the computer flight plan and found that the Chief Pilot had punched into the computer at the office BOI (Boise ID) instead of BFI (Seattle WA) as our final destination and had loaded the amount of fuel the computer said we needed to go to BOI. The Chief Pilot had to go back in the cabin and tell the CEO that he made a mistake and that we have to land in Missoula MT and get fuel. He lost many points with the CEO because the CEO had an important meeting and now he was going to be late.

A certain dispatcher I know once filed a flight plan for a 737 on a short MSP-FAR flight. A few minutes later, the dispatcher gets a call from Seatlle ARTCC Flight Data, asking if we really wanted to go MSP-FAR via Spokane. (Instead of filing it MSP..GEP..FAR (the GEP being the "Gopher" VOR), the dispatcher used GEG by mistake. (I learned from that one...)  Wink

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 15):
That was a fantastic line up of tales. And, in true a.net fashion, since I have nothing else to contribute, I will nit pick. They're called "squibs", not "squids", unless you're using something a whole lot different than what I'm thinking of.

Darn, you beat me to it. Pity, since I was researching the deferral possibilities of the APU CALAMARI SYS INOP/ MEL 49-33....  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
KingAirMan
Topic Author
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:33 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:25 am



Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 18):
That wasnt out at LAF was it? If so, who did this?

I think we had this discussion at the checkout counter the other day with didn't we ? lol. The one who is now banished from the place. . That is just what I heard
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:40 am

I wish I couldv'e banned someone from the airport in my lineboy days...

A guy who was a captain for a major airline at the time tried to kill me with the prop on his restored Beech Staggerwing...didn't know how to yell "clear" when he cranked the engine. I had to dive out of the prop arc when I heard the starter engage (I was pulling the chocks on his left main gear when that happened...)  Angry Lots more to the story, of course. It happened at the local airshow...
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
User avatar
tb727
Posts: 2219
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:40 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:59 pm



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 19):
There are some really great Chief Pilots out there in corporate aviation

Yeah I have had an awesome one for the last 5+ years, he just got promoted and now we have another good one taking his place.

I forgot about the Lear Captain who tried to kill me a couple times just flying normal everyday stuff. As soon as we would go into a cloud he would start turning. You had to watch him all the time and I was an FO! Luckily he is long gone and I don't even think he is flying right now. He tried, with some other copilot, the old hold it in ground effect for a cool takeoff trick, pulled up way too hard, got the stall warning and wing buffet because he hauled back on the stick because he had no idea what he was doing. He told the copilot that he saw a bird  sarcastic .
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
jetstar
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:09 pm

Here’s another really dumb Chief Pilot story, unfortunately he paid the ultimate price for his mistake

A JetStar that had been modified with the 731 engines was having problems with their generators. On the classic JetStars the generator control panels part, of which were the voltage regulators which were the carbon pile type, old technology and slow, but worked great. On the re-engined JetStars they changed the generator control panels over to solid state control panels and solid state voltage regulators, which in the early days of the program had lots of problems with the generators(s) dropping off line for no reason.

On the way to Canada, this JetStar experienced all 4 generators dropping off line, leaving the airplane of battery power, the flight crew managed to get the generators back on line and landed safely in Canada. They called their Chief of Maintenance who I knew, who recommended they do not fly back because of the problems and the stormy weather conditions back at HPN. The Chief pilot decided to fly the airplane back home with 3 executives on board. As they approached the New York area, ATC noticed they lost the transponder signal and radio contact because the airplane lost its generators, they were able to establish radio contact and got the transponder signal again and the airplane continued its approach. Radar contact was lost again and the airplane crashed and burned a few miles short of Runway 16 at HPN killing everyone on board. It was a very somber and sad day at HPN on that day, losing one of your home based airplanes.

The report of this crash can be found by doing a search of the NTSB accident reports. It happened in 1980 or 1981.

I wish I was present at the NTSB hearing for the cause of the accident, because I would have asked them to try to find out why this Chief Pilot, a 25,000 former WW2 pilot decided to fly the airplane back with this known defect in one of the worst weather conditions possible when advised not to.

In a ironic twist of fate, the wife of one of the executives killed later married a corporate pilot who I knew from his HPN days, he worked for Falcon Jet at TEB as a demo pilot and part of his job was to go over to the factory in France and ferry back green airplanes for interior completion and paint, almost all Falcon Jets are completed in Little Rock AR. He was onboard TWA 800 that day in July, could you imagine this woman being widowed twice because of airplane crashes
 
N231YE
Posts: 2620
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:24 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:20 pm

I should add, that there is a pilot at my local airport, whom I was warned about with past instructors, especially when practicing in that pattern back in my Private days. One instructor said, and I quote, "watch out for that man/aircraft, he WILL try to kill you."
 
bok269
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 10:19 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:47 pm



Quoting N231YE (Reply 10):
Back on topic, I will say that some pilots that I know have tried to purposely break things on rented aircraft. One, supposedly spun an airplane around in circles (using differential braking, etc.) on a ramp after a long flight hoping to "damage" the brakes. Not really dumb, more of stupid if you ask me...and if those brakes did fail?...I could imagine the explanation to the FAA on that one.

Which is exactly why you'll never see any airplane I may one day own serving as a leaseback.
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
User avatar
SEPilot
Posts: 5631
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:59 pm

When I was running the local FBO one of my customers had a 1958 C-172 that really was in nice shape, and had a very recently overhauled engine. He was a penny-pincher, though, and took things too far at times. He came to us with a fuel leak; when the left tank was full it would leak out at the trailing edge. The tank on this plane was a separate aluminum tank set in the wing; we discovered that the filler neck was cracked where it joined the main tank. We offered him a couple of solutions; one was to find and install a second hand tank, and the other was to give him the tank to do with what he wanted and we would reinstall it no questions asked (assuming that he would get it welded by a non-approved welder, as there are no FAA approved welders in our area.) Not legal, but hey, there are plenty of very good welders around. He initially told us to find a replacement tank, which we did (and ordered it) but when he found out the price he balked and told us to reinstall the original tank unrepaired, and he would deal with it. He refused to pay what I charged him (I think he paid about half) and I was stuck with the shipping on the tank which had already arrived, and I had to send back. We thought he was going to use one of those automotive fuel tank repair kits; we never did find out what he did. But a couple of years later he crashed on takeoff and was killed (he had just dropped his kids off; thank God he was alone). No cause was ever established, but witnesses thought the engine might have quit. My mechanic and I strongly suspect that the cracked seam was never properly sealed and had allowed water to enter (the location of the crack would have done this) and he hadn't gotten all of it out (it had rained just before this crash, and he did not keep the plane in a hangar.) Not so much a pilot doing a dumb thing but an aircraft owner doing a dumb thing and paying the ultimate price.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:32 pm



Quoting KingAirMan (Thread starter):
Pilots Doing Dumb Things

I am sure this guy would qualify.

Landing 1000 feet down a runway that is 500 feet too short, closed to jet traffic, with a 10 knot tail wind. I am sure you can guess how it turned out.  Smile


http://youtube.com/watch?v=pIPvs_sJMXM
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:41 pm

Anyone ever seen a crop duster emerge from below the runway? I have. Happened at LRU one day when I was solo...I was ready to go on runway 8, and before I could advance the throttle, the local cropduster (who was notorious for never using the UNICOM) popped up from beneath the threshhold on 26 (possible at LRU because it sits at the top of a mesa...) and landed. I don't know if he ever saw me, he was off the runway by mid-field (thank God for 6,200' runways!).
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
User avatar
SEPilot
Posts: 5631
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:41 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 28):
Landing 1000 feet down a runway that is 500 feet too short, closed to jet traffic, with a 10 knot tail wind. I am sure you can guess how it turned out. Smile

 checkmark 
A number of years ago a Learjet pilot tried an even stupider stunt at RUT; he tried to take off from the short runway (3170 ft) instead of the 5000 foot one. Disastrous outcome. As it is a small, uncontrolled airport with only two runways and no taxiways (at that time) there was no chance of confusion; it is hard to understand how a pilot that had managed to get a Lear type rating would make such an elementary mistake.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
egmcman
Posts: 729
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:28 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:05 pm

Last week one of the pilots on a flight from BOH-AGP didn't show up. The airline had to call another pilot and the aircraft arrived an hour three quarters late.

Jetstar you have had interesting career by the sound of things.
 
A320ajm
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 11:57 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:27 pm

I once asked my flight instructor - "Do we have to turn the landing lights on for take-off?"
He looked at me as if I was stupid.
 laughing 
Slightly not as bad as the stories above but a bad question from me!
Regards
A320ajm
If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
 
jetstar
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:12 am



Quoting Egmcman (Reply 31):
Jetstar you have had interesting career by the sound of things.

I must say that my JetStar jobs were very interesting, as you can probably see from my writings that both Chief Pilots were assholes, one onetime judged the amount of work I had done in a day by how dirty my hands were and the other considered maintenance a necessary evil in operating an airplane and inspections were just a means of mechanics justifying their jobs.

Either of these two a screwdriver in their hands was a dangerous weapon, that how mechanically inept they were, yet they were my bosses and I had to justify every maintenance expense and sometimes I would come out of the office muttering to myself.
Like the time one of them brought in a windshield wiper blade from his sons VW and asked if we could modify it to use it on the JetStar because the JetStar blades cost $20 then and the VW blades cost $1.00. In no uncertain terms I said no, but that was his mentality and that’s what I had to put up with.

Other than that I had a great time at these jobs, it was not your average 9 to 5 job. Besides the fact that I got to fly the JetStar, I logged over 500 hours some of it left seat time and going to places and getting paid while sitting on the beach or around the pool at the hotel for a few days or spending 17 days in Europe or having 5 days off and working on my C-150 when the JetStar was on the road. I completely overhauled my engine in the company shop over one winter during my off time. If I was caught up on my JetStar maintenance I even worked on my airplane when the Chief Pilot didn’t come into the office on some days. Other times if it was slow, I would tell the Chief Pilot I was going over to another JetStar operator to borrow some O rings and would go over to another hangar and play ping pong there for about an hour with their maintenance people.

There was the responsibility of being a one man maintenance department on a very sophisticated airplane and I enjoyed that. Seeing the airplane take off and knowing I was responsible for that and when the CEO’s and Chairman of the Boards of both companies, both large Fortune 500 companies personally thank me for doing a great job made up for all I had to put up with from the Chief Pilots.
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:44 am

We do dumb things?! Nah... never Big grin hehe

Most "dumb" things I have done were all within the operational limits of the aircraft and not illegal!! I dont want to risk my life or my licence!!

I always liked flying very fast in the descent, catching up some delay! Even below 10000 feet with 330 knots towards the ILS and glideslope and then a few miles before the descent of the ILS: power idle and then putting in flaps and gear according to the flap speed schedule... And being all set at 1000' above the ground! Was fun, but can be dangerous with the birds at lower altitudes... So now I am flying slower and its more relaxing...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
hangarrat
Posts: 428
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:24 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:44 pm



Quoting Metroliner (Reply 3):
Not to be a pedantic bugger, but as a student of English Literature and a former student of Physics I do find this turn of speech rather strange... see it a lot on a.net!

High rate of speed is excess verbiage. High speed says the same thing. "Rate" is a generic term for a system of measurement, like MPH or KPH. It's similar to saying "a cold temperature." Temperature is a system of measurement, and itself is not cold; it is high or low.

My stupid pilot tricks: A fellow I met took me for a ride in his 7AC Champ on a tour of the area. He lined up on short final for a grass strip next to a nice looking house. We descended to about flare height when he jammed in the throttle and banked hard around the house.

I asked over the intercom if the house belonged to a friend of his. He replied, no, it was his ex-wife's, but it used to be his. Later in the flight, he made a low pass, though not as low, over another house and told me it belonged to the judge who handled his divorce.

Now, this is where it starts to sound like a tall tale: A few weeks later, the owner of a local airport told me that the pilot had been disciplined by his airline for making a PA that he was passing over his wife's house and he could see that her attorney's Mercedes in the driveway. I've heard different versions of that story elsewhere though.
Spell check is a false dog
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 30089
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:22 pm

How about a F/O stepping on the Parking brakes during Pushback.....Too bad can't post what the Capt said to him thereafter  Smile

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
hangarrat
Posts: 428
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:24 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:43 pm

How about this:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kas Van Zonneveld



No offense to the pilot, but somebody wasn't paying attention.
Spell check is a false dog
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:30 pm



Quoting HangarRat (Reply 37):

At first I thought: this guy must be asleep, but then I read about the fuel thing! Weird hehe

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
User avatar
tb727
Posts: 2219
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:40 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:32 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 38):


At first I thought: this guy must be asleep, but then I read about the fuel thing! Weird hehe

Yep, gotta check those caps! At least it wasn't a bigger plane, nothing makes a bigger mess than a pressurized tank and a loose cap!
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 30089
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:05 pm



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 39):
Yep, gotta check those caps! At least it wasn't a bigger plane, nothing makes a bigger mess than a pressurized tank and a loose cap

Is this type pressure fed.I thought it would be gravity fed.
Anyone aware?
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:12 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 40):
Is this type pressure fed.I thought it would be gravity fed.
Anyone aware?
regds
MEL.

Yes, MEL, in the Cessna 172, the fuel is gravity-fed. However, if one were to take off with a fuel cap missing, they might discover two things: 1) atmospheric pressure differentials, especially on top of a nice low pressure surface like the top of a wing, is wonderful at siphoning off their very expensive avgas and 2) the cross feed between the tanks will dutifully level the fuel load between the wing tanks  Smile
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:52 pm



Quoting HangarRat (Reply 37):
No offense to the pilot, but somebody wasn't paying attention.

Reminds me of this:



2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
User avatar
SEPilot
Posts: 5631
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:22 pm



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 39):

Yep, gotta check those caps! At least it wasn't a bigger plane, nothing makes a bigger mess than a pressurized tank and a loose cap!

You still end up losing most of your fuel in a hurry, as the very top of the wing is the lowest pressure spot in flight. I know this from experience; I did it myself once. Once is more than enough.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
User avatar
SEPilot
Posts: 5631
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:23 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 42):

Reminds me of this:

At least it wasn't a retractable....
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
User avatar
tb727
Posts: 2219
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:40 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:27 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 40):
Is this type pressure fed.I thought it would be gravity fed.
Anyone aware?

Oh yeah, that type in the pic is def gravity fed, what I meant was on my airplane, it is pressure. It's quite the Jet-A geyser was what I was getting at.  Smile
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
User avatar
777wt
Posts: 828
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:45 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:47 am

Hey Jetstar, sounds like you got alot of experience with Jetstars based out of HPN...used to work there?

BTW there's a jetstar in Aruba airport that's been there for a real long time, one side tires lost air pressure and it's sitting at a angle to one side  Wink
 
N231YE
Posts: 2620
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:24 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:06 am



Quoting SEPilot (Reply 43):
You still end up losing most of your fuel in a hurry, as the very top of the wing is the lowest pressure spot in flight. I know this from experience; I did it myself once. Once is more than enough.

Your signature line adds a nice touch  wink  (just kidding)
 
jetstar
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:01 am



Quoting 777WT (Reply 46):
BTW there's a jetstar in Aruba airport that's been there for a real long time, one side tires lost air pressure and it's sitting at a angle to one side

I see it on Google Earth, it’s hard to tell, but it looks like a 731 conversion.

Slightly more than half of the Pratt powered JetStars were built between 1962 and 1965, with production to about 1972, those airframes are over 40 years old or close to it so their value now is basically scrap, especially sitting there in the humid salt air environment.

None of the JetStars I worked on was ever converted to the 731 engines, one was an early production model and was one of the first to be scrapped and the other was a mid production model and was exported to Mexico.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 30089
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Pilots Doing Dumb Things

Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:03 am



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 41):

Ok.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 42):

How do you find these Amazing pics.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 45):
I meant was on my airplane, it is pressure

Ok.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Airliner1973, dcs921, edina, hitower3 and 14 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos