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KingAirMan
Topic Author
Posts: 233
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Failing A Check Ride

Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:47 am

Hello all,

A friend of mine recently failed a multi engine check ride and is worried that an airline may not look at him the same with a history of "failure". Is this true? On the other hand, I have heard if you work hard enough to get your certificates, an airline has no problem of you failing a checkride. Granted it does show a history of failure and may allow them to think you can not pass an airline ride ?


Told him id do a little "research" to see what the a.nutters thought

Thanks

kingairman
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:09 am

No he shouldn't have a problem, as long as he is honest about it during the interview if it is brought up. Tell them what happened, and what was learned from it. Always take a negative and turn it into a positive learning experience.

[Edited 2008-03-05 17:10:41]
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KingAirMan
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:10 am

Thanks future UAL that was my view too
 
KELPkid
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:11 am



Quoting KingAirMan (Thread starter):
A friend of mine recently failed a multi engine check ride and is worried that an airline may not look at him the same with a history of "failure". Is this true? On the other hand, I have heard if you work hard enough to get your certificates, an airline has no problem of you failing a checkride. Granted it does show a history of failure and may allow them to think you can not pass an airline ride ?

Hey, I had to take my instrument checkride twice, no biggie. I was just a little overanxious the first time and let the needle go full-scale on my ILS, and the check airman had another check ride scheduled right after mine. Granted, I'm not a professional, either, just a private pilot.

I went back the next week, to do my 1 ILS, and, on account of the WX, we got an NDB hold in actual (because the IAF for the particular approach we shot is the LOM), and a 30 knot headwind on the approach Big grin (it screwed up my hold really bad, but it sure made the approach much easier, apart from having to carry lots of power on the glideslope...)  Wink.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
lowrider
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:46 am

Failing one checkride is not a career ender. In an interview it can be used as a jumping off point to talk about what was learned from the experience. I would venture to say that the majority of pilots have hooked at least one ride of some time at one point or another. Failing several is a different matter. Also, the further someone gets from the pink slip and the more successful check rides that can be shown in the mean time, the less that failure means.
Proud OOTSK member
 
AirWillie6475
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:10 am

Actually it depends on the airline. Most of the time most don't care but there are a few such as Expressjet and American Eagle that don't like busted check rides. Expressjet is notorious for not hiring pilots that failed their initial CFI. I would say though that a multi failure is not a big deal, in fact it's probably the easiest rating I wonder how your friend failed.
 
Mir
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:01 am



Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 5):
Expressjet is notorious for not hiring pilots that failed their initial CFI.

Crap. That was a bad time to have nerves, pressure to finish and stronger-than-normal winds all come together.

Failures happen - nobody is perfect. Best you can do is learn as much as you can from it and move on. Getting down on yourself is easy, but doesn't help you all that much.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
KingAirMan
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:14 pm

The only reason he failed is because he missed a newly published fix on the approach that had an MEA change. He went down to 2000 instead of 2300 during the last 5 minutes of the ride.
 
Mir
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:41 pm



Quoting KingAirMan (Reply 7):
The only reason he failed is because he missed a newly published fix on the approach that had an MEA change. He went down to 2000 instead of 2300 during the last 5 minutes of the ride.

He can take comfort in the fact that it's a mistake he'll never make again - he'll make sure to read those charts correctly in the future.  Smile

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
KingAirMan
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:19 pm

Yea, the brightside I suppose is that he flew the multi engine part well, just made a dumb mistake as an instrument pilot!
 
pilotpip
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:00 am

I'll share my story.

I failed my initial CFI ride. Then I failed my first checkride when I went to a 121 carrier. I passed on the second time with both and neither has held me back. It happens.

What kills on those is becoming a victim. The blame falls on your shoulders. It has nothing to do with an examiner or checkairman that you don't like, or doesn't like you (even if this is really the case). I failed both because I didn't perform up to standards. I learned from the experiences, strengthed what was a weakness before the checkride, and brought my performance up to stuff. I was asked if I had ever failed a checkride, and was open and upfront about both.

Quoting KingAirMan (Reply 7):
The only reason he failed is because he missed a newly published fix on the approach that had an MEA change. He went down to 2000 instead of 2300 during the last 5 minutes of the ride.

Complacency kills  Wink
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FlyHoss
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:36 am

I don't recall ever being asked if I'd ever failed a check ride.

I did have one "bust" during a Part 135 check ride in a Baron. During the downwind for a (simulated) single-engine ILS approach, I was flying at the maximum gear and flap extension speed; I preferred this speed because of the handling and control forces. The FAA Inspector stated that I was flying too fast, that our Training Manual specified blue-line. I stated that the Training Manual specified that blue-line was the minimum speed and that there was no specified maximum speed. I then offered to review the TM with the Inspector in his office after completing the ride. During the SE approach, just before joining the glideslope, I reduced power, waited a moment and began to extend the gear and flaps. The Inspector made no comments during this approach.

After completing the ride, we reviewed the Training Manual and I was found to be correct. The Inspector then stated that I had over sped the gear and the flaps during the SE (ILS) approach. This was incorrect. I had reduced power, waited for the aircraft to decelerate (about 5 knots) before extending the gear and flaps and allowed the plane to decelerate to the desired approach speed. Nonetheless, the Inspector failed me on this checkride for the SE ILS.

So I went back to our Flight Ops office and told the story to the Chief Pilot. He called the GADO (before they were renamed FSDOs) and schedule another checkride for the following day with another Inspector. After completing the SE ILS, we took a few minutes to go sight seeing over the Inspector's farm.
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Soku39
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:39 pm

It happens, no big deal really. You can bust a ride for the dumbest things. On my instrument ride I did my NDB, ILS, and VOR wonderfully, all in IMC, well we get out of the clouds for the GPS back into my base, and the GPS never switched over from enroute mode to approach mode for some reason, and I didn't notice that the sensitivity on the OBS never went up (KLN-89B, awful GPS unit btw). Well I descended to mins and busted right there on the last approach of the ride. Awful feeling, but I went out the next day did the one approach (in a different airplane!) and 15 minutes later I had the rating.
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tb727
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:26 pm

I think busting a Type-ride or ATP checkride will hinder you more than anything else. What are the failure rates for initial CFI rides anyways? I heard they are pretty high, I never got mine but from what I have heard it is the hardest one.
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N231YE
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:36 pm

I was told in an "pre-interview" for a co-op position at a regional airline that failures aren't the end of the world. The person stated that even he failed a multi-engine checkride years ago but still got the job as a pilot. As long as you're honest, its okay. However, if you lie in an interview and say you never failed a checkride when you did...that's a quick turn-off and a guarantee not to get the job (the airline said they look at your FAA records anyway, so they're going to find out one way or another). The person did mention, however, that while a failure here or there is okay, multiple failures in a row can raise some flags.

I was also told that the Private and CFI checkrides are the most commonly failed.
 
Mir
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:43 am



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 13):
What are the failure rates for initial CFI rides anyways? I heard they are pretty high, I never got mine but from what I have heard it is the hardest one.

I've heard the initial failure rate is 80% for CFI. I find that kind of hard to believe, but it is a very hard test.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
cptspeaking
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:51 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 15):

Yeah...depends on which FSDO you get the stats from, but it's somewhere between 60 and 80% failure rates across the board...I was fortunate/prepared enough to pass the first time...it sort of helped that I had a new inspector who came out to my home airport, so I got to teach him the local procedures as well as the items required in the PTS.

The significant thing about that is the uniqueness of the airport... look up Falwell Airport (W24) ...he was amazed to say the least  Smile Most people find it crazy that I did my CFI checkride out of this airport...it never gets old flying in and out of there though  Smile


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bablackpilot
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:59 am

IMHO he failed a very easy checkride, but broke the cardinal rule, he failed to review his approach plates properly.
One of the worse things you can do on a checkride or in life is bust an altitude. That is a big safety issue that I believe your friend should review on. FAA is really cracking down on all types of incursion. While 300ft might not seem a lot, 300ft depending on where you are can put you 300ft closer to an aircraft that is flying 1000ft below you.
I would reccomend before your friend takes that checkride again, to get on the sim and just brief and shoot approaches. You should have him brief and shoot a different approach each time. The change will cause him to read each chart carefully and with more scretuny.
Be safe up there guys. The best way to end your flying career is by retirement, not by stupidity and death.
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10mid
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:37 am



Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 5):
Expressjet is notorious for not hiring pilots that failed their initial CFI.

I failed my initial CFI. Been at ExpressJet 4 years, and just got hired at United. I failed a checkride, got disciplined at a job, have a speeding ticket. Not a problem, as long as you are honest about it. Just don't lie or try and hide it. It'll show up in your PRIA and NDR search.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:29 pm



Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 1):
No he shouldn't have a problem, as long as he is honest about it during the interview if it is brought up. Tell them what happened, and what was learned from it. Always take a negative and turn it into a positive learning experience.

While I am not pilot I have learned in drivers courses. My recent job interview required me to drive a 5 and 6 speed. Because I was up front he is holding the job for me till next Monday. Honesty will get you places whereas lying will not.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
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zeke
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RE: Failing A Check Ride

Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:05 pm



Quoting KingAirMan (Thread starter):

My view is that for their initial positions they go for where the number of applicants exceeds the number of positions, employers can and will use any legal method to cull the number of applications down (which could include a failure). However at the moment, it is a pilots market, with a shortage at just about every level.

Further down his career path, the initial ratings become less important, what becomes important is how they have prepared themselves for the interview process (normally without a initial rating at these airlines you don't even get a invitation to attend), and their performance/equipment at their most recent position.
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