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PiedmontINT
Topic Author
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:12 am

Jato On A Metro?

Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:53 am

Hi all.. I came across some old Air Midwest manuals that our fire dept. had here at MHK and saw a small booklet that included pictures of critical areas and parts of a Fairchild-Swearingen Metro that they would use to indentify the passenger doors, cargo door, landing gear, engine parts, etc. if there was ever a fire or rescue. While browsing through it I saw a diagram of the tail section that pointed out the tail, rudder, etc. etc. and also a JATO rocket attachment point.

JATO? On a 19 seat turboprop?? I have never heard of JATO rockets attached to civilian airliners with the exception of the 727 in hot and high conditions out of MEX. Does anyone know if these were ever actually used and what purpose would they have? I am not familiar with the Metro's short field performance but I assume it could at least take off of relatively shorter runways that the smaller airports would have with commercial air service, right?
 
flyf15
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RE: Jato On A Metro?

Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:02 am

Its there for engine out second segment climb performance (ie: clearing an obstacle off the end of the runway). I've heard that they dont really provide much thrust at all... just enough to meet certification requirements.

Apparently once every so many hours they had to replace the bottle... mechanics would go out and fire off the bottle at the runup pad, and if I recall correctly, they were able to do it with the brakes off and the airplane wouldn't even move.
 
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zeke
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RE: Jato On A Metro?

Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:04 am

I remember Continuous Alcohol-Water Injection (CAWI) on the metro, not a JATO. Maybe it is a USAF mod, they operate a few.
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YWG
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2001 11:29 am

RE: Jato On A Metro?

Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:05 am

I've heard rumours that the tail cone/light assembly on the metro is really just a cover for the attachment point of the JATO rocket.
Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
 
L-188
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RE: Jato On A Metro?

Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:22 am

The orginal Metro I's from what I hear where real dogs and underpowered and the whole purpose of the rocket in the tail was if you lost one engine on takeoff, it would give you enough time and thrust to get the gear sucked in. Otherwise you would be headed for the weeds if you got caught on takeoff with 1 motor and the gear down.

Latter Models such as the III and 23 didn't have them.

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 1):
Apparently once every so many hours they had to replace the bottle... mechanics would go out and fire off the bottle at the runup pad, and if I recall correctly, they were able to do it with the brakes off and the airplane wouldn't even move

I've heard the same stories.
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twinotter4ever
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:03 am

RE: Jato On A Metro?

Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:25 am

I remember reading in a book about the development of the Otter and twin otter where they experimented with JATO powered take off, which seems a little nuts in an already very capable aircraft, they also experimented with batwing style flaps that hang half way down the fuselage. On their test rig (raised support on wheels towed behind a truck) they batwing flaps were causing the rig to dance around while doing only 40mph......Anyways...enough of topic chatter.....Another Jato power plane which would seem to be over kill is the HERC c-130...Though I am sure the military use would be good. If I remember from the video, those JATOs had quite the kick....
 
YWG
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2001 11:29 am

RE: Jato On A Metro?

Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:48 am



Quoting Zeke (Reply 2):
Alcohol-Water Injection (CAWI) on the metro

You are correct.
Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
 
AirTranTUS
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Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:12 am

RE: Jato On A Metro?

Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:01 am

I remember that Airways or Airliners magazine did an article about the Metro a few years ago, and the range with max payload of the first versions was less than 100 miles! Not much you can do with a plane like that.
I love ASO!
 
crownvic
Posts: 2642
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: Jato On A Metro?

Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:52 am

Caribair of Puerto Rico actually had them on their piston powered Convairs, so that they could get out of STT, when the R/W was only 4400 feet... It was quite a sight to see!
 
113312
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RE: Jato On A Metro?

Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:21 pm

L-188, above, is 100% correct. The JATO bottle was an option that allowed increased takeoff weight under conditions where engine out initial climb performance would have restricted it. The rocket had an electric initiator that had to be manually activated by the pilot. A better solution was offered with AWI (alcohol water injection) in either emergency or continuous formats. The AWI system injected a stream of fluid directly into the compressor inlet which atomized causing a drop in local air temperature allowing for increased mass flow and resulting thrust.

It is true that the early Metro I and Metro II had limited range with maximum payload. They were certified as light aircraft with a max takeoff gross weight of 12,500 pounds and 840 shp Garrett TPE-331 engines. But they also had a large wet wing fuel tank capacity allowing for long range with limited payload. Later improvements in increased gross weight and increased power gave metros longer range with greater loads.
 
HaveBlue
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RE: Jato On A Metro?

Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:03 pm



Quoting TwinOtter4Ever (Reply 5):
Another Jato power plane which would seem to be over kill is the HERC c-130...Though I am sure the military use would be good. If I remember from the video, those JATOs had quite the kick....

They do... I've seen the Herc do JATO takeoffs several times, it climb angle is steep as hell and it gets to 1,000 in no time and while covering very, very little ground.
 
cloudy
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RE: Jato On A Metro?

Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:19 am



Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 1):
Apparently once every so many hours they had to replace the bottle... mechanics would go out and fire off the bottle at the runup pad, and if I recall correctly, they were able to do it with the brakes off and the airplane wouldn't even move.

It takes a surprising amount of energy to un-stick the wheels of a plane, even with no brakes. Thrust is not nearly as effective in countering "static" friction as wheels or legs are

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