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VC10er
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The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:38 am

i have always loved the needle on the 707's tail.

what purpose did they serve? and would it be cool if they brought them back just for style.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
Max Q
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:58 am

That is the HF antenna.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
beechnut
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:21 pm

It is a cool distinctive feature. Not all 707s had it though; some domestic 707s did not have HF radio and thus lacked the antenna.



Beech
 
efcar98
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:32 pm

747 Classics also have the same HF antenna in the form of a trailing needle on the end of each wing.
 
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falstaff
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:41 pm

I always thought it was a bird Spear  Silly
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twinotter4ever
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:13 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 4):
I always thought it was a bird Spear

Where do you think they get the fresh "chicken"  Wink Always safer than the fish  vomit 
 
Viscount724
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:58 pm



Quoting BeechNut (Reply 2):
It is a cool distinctive feature. Not all 707s had it though; some domestic 707s did not have HF radio and thus lacked the antenna.

Many 720s were also built without the HF antenna. Those for NW, Western and Eastern had it.


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Those for AA and UA did not.


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That was probably because NW and WA used their 720Bs to Hawaii and EA to the Caribbean where HF was needed, while AA then had no routes outside North America and UA's were never used to Hawaii (their only overwater routes then, and I doubt UA's non-turbofan 720s had enough range).

Pan Am acquired 3 720Bs from AA and 6 from LH.in the mid-1960s. The ex-LH aircraft already had the HF antenna but PA had to install it on the 3 acquired from AA. One of the ex-AA 720Bs below.


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jbernie
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:56 am



Quoting TwinOtter4Ever (Reply 5):
Where do you think they get the fresh "chicken" Always safer than the fish

So do they draw straws on who is the lucky one to go get the "fresh" chicken during flight?
 
helvknight
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:09 am



Quoting Jbernie (Reply 7):
Quoting TwinOtter4Ever (Reply 5):
Where do you think they get the fresh "chicken" Always safer than the fish

So do they draw straws on who is the lucky one to go get the "fresh" chicken during flight?

That's why I had the lasagna.  Smile

So where would the HF antenna be on a modern bird, say a 332 or a 777?
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falstaff
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:14 am



Quoting TwinOtter4Ever (Reply 5):
Where do you think they get the fresh "chicken" Always safer than the fish

"Not only do we need someone who can fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner".  Silly
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
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Moose135
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:33 am

KC-135 has it also. We told people it was a forward-firing laser  Smile

KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:52 am

This begs the question: Why does it face forward? For that matter why does it face back on the 747 classics?

And where is it in modern airliners??
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PhilSquares
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:08 am



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 11):
And where is it in modern airliners??

On the 744, it's on the vertical stabilizer. IIRC, the forward lower part.
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miamiair
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:57 am

The are immediately below the antenna; the radiused fairing suffered from erosion. A rubber-like boot was added after several of the fairings had eroded.
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GPIARFF
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:04 pm

Did I read somewhere that it was a requirement for airlines that wanted to fly on certain DOD contracts? Something to do with the Military radio network at the time? Maybe thats why some domestic AC had it?
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AirframeAS
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:26 pm

Some of them have them on the bottom of the fuselage.
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Viscount724
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:16 pm



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 12):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 11):
And where is it in modern airliners??

On the 744, it's on the vertical stabilizer. IIRC, the forward lower part.

On many propeller types and on few jets operated in remote areas (northern Canada etc.), the HF antenna was a wire stretched between the tail and a point on the fuselage. If you enlarge the photo of the SV 732 you can see two wires (not sure if they are both for HF?) between the vertical stabilizer (about half way up) and the fuselage near the rotating beacon.


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Starlionblue
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:14 am



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):

On many propeller types and on few jets operated in remote areas (northern Canada etc.), the HF antenna was a wire stretched between the tail and a point on the fuselage. If you enlarge the photo of the SV 732 you can see two wires (not sure if they are both for HF?) between the vertical stabilizer (about half way up) and the fuselage near the rotating beacon.

This begs another question.  Wink Why does the KC-135 (see the pic above) have both the spike and the cable?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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longhauler
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:18 pm

One thing I never realised before after looking at all these B707 pictures ... American's B707s only had Turbo-Compressors on engines 2 and 3, and not 2, 3 and 4 like other airlines B707s.

That used to be the best way to tell a B720 from a B707, as the B720 always had TCs on 2 and 3, and the B707 has them on 2, 3 and 4 ... until I looked at AA's.

Any ideas why the difference?
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Viscount724
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:34 pm



Quoting LongHauler (Reply 18):
One thing I never realised before after looking at all these B707 pictures ... American's B707s only had Turbo-Compressors on engines 2 and 3, and not 2, 3 and 4 like other airlines B707s.

That used to be the best way to tell a B720 from a B707, as the B720 always had TCs on 2 and 3, and the B707 has them on 2, 3 and 4 ... until I looked at AA's.

Any ideas why the difference?

I believe it was because AA had no overwater routes when they acquired their 707s as their network was entirely within North America. Thus if they had a pressurization problem they could easily divert to a nearby airport. They were thus able to avoid the weight and cost of the additional turbocompressor.

I recall reading somewhere that a small number of other carriers also ordered 707s with only 2 turbocompressors but those were non-turbofan JT4A-powered -320 or R-R Conway -420 models where all engines had the same pylon so you couldn't easily tell that an engine lacked a turbocompressor as you could with the -120B, -320B/C and 720B models.
 
Blackbird
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:15 pm

Why did jets that operated in remote areas and up north used a wire? What advantages does a spike have over the wires?

Also what did the DC-8 and CV-880 use?


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David L
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RE: The 707 Thunderbirds Needle

Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:50 pm



Quoting Helvknight (Reply 8):
That's why I had the lasagna.

That's what they wanted you to think. Have you ever seen a bird that's been speared at 400+ kts?  vomit 

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