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LH4116
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Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:51 am

Hello.
I'm wondering if airline pilots realty hate aircraft technicians and mechanics. Yesterday i heard the pilot students talk about how to minimize the wear on the flaps, suddenly i heard one of them say "I'm sure it's one of those dam mechanics fault that the flaps didn't work properly". I've also noticed that the pilots refuse to speak to us "non pilots", mostly because the look down on as and over valuate themselves. I've also heard that they call us "those who didn't make it in" (those who couldn't make it to become a pilot, studies maintenance instead). Is this how people do in real life or is it just some ridiculous act of being superior that they have invented.
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futureualpilot
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:55 pm

I can't speak for all pilots, but I have a lot of respect for A&Ps. The ones I have dealt with have been very professional, and for the most part, friendly. I don't consider myself a "better" person than them by any means, nor do I think they are better than me. No offense to student pilots, but take what they say with a grain of salt.
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B6JFKH81
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:22 pm

I hate to say it, but airlines are like high schools. You have a bunch of little groups that don't always like each other or what they have to say. In high school, you have the jocks, the goth kids, the nerds, etc. In airlines, you have the flight crews, inflight crews, Tech Ops, Supply Chain, Ground Ops, CSAs, etc.

But at the end of the day, all the groups have to realize one thing...everything they do effects the other groups and ultimately the customer. So, the more issues you have between groups, the more likely you will just be hurting the customer. I work at a Tech Ops facility and have to admit that the Tech Ops, Flight and SC crews really work together to help each other out when an a/c will taxi onto the TOC ramp (since we don't gave Ground Ops over here). Someone will help marshal the plane in, someone else will get the stair truck and open the doors to get the Flight Crew off and offer them a ride to the terminal, etc. We're all in it together and we all specialize in specific things to keep 'em flying.  airplane 

~H81
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Slcpilot
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:44 pm

In a Part 121 setting, I suspect you may find a relationship between the overall success of a company and it's internal relations.

It's my understanding that at Southwest there are actually ground crew totally responsible for the pre and post-flight inspections. That's HUGE! There has to be a significant level of trust between the flightcrew and the ground crew for this to happen even if it is SOP.

Imagine a circumstance where these two groups (or any other two i.e. gate agents/flight crew, pilots/mechs, or even labor/mgnt) had a lack of respect. I think it would be a lot harder to operate.

Fly Safe,

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tb727
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:47 pm

Not at all in my case. I consider most of the guys at my airline friends and they are always happy to help. We have one guy though that none of the mechanics like. I think it just depends on the personality(mostly of the pilot)and how well they play with others. My dad was a mechanic at NW for 27 years and only once had a problem with a pilot.
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PhilSquares
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:30 pm



Quoting LH4116 (Thread starter):
I'm wondering if airline pilots realty hate aircraft technicians and mechanics.

In a word NO! Any pilot who makes his living flying knows no one is indispensable and no one is more important than anyone else. Now, you will always have the few who give the group a bad name, but a true "professional" will recognize the importance of everyone on the team.
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FredT
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:08 pm

I assume you study either at Västerås or Arvidsjaur? If so, ignore them. High school kids are high school kids, even if they think they are pilots.

Once they leave their protected little world, they will find out very soon that cooperation is the name of the game for successful individuals and successful companies alike. Those who are slow learners in this respect have a higher-than-average chance of finding themselves pumping gas into the cars of aviation technicians on their way to their aviation job.  Smile
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boeing767mech
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:18 pm



Quoting LH4116 (Thread starter):
Yesterday i heard the pilot students talk about how to minimize the wear on the flaps, suddenly i heard one of them say "I'm sure it's one of those dam mechanics fault that the flaps didn't work properly"

Key work(s) here STUDENT PILOT they think they are only ones that know anything about the airplane. Truth is most of all the pilots I deal with every night respect the maintenance staff.

Quoting LH4116 (Thread starter):
I've also heard that they call us "those who didn't make it in" (those who couldn't make it to become a pilot, studies maintenance instead).

Next time you should ask them who built and flew the first airplanes, went they mechanics??? As for couldn't make it as a pilot, doesn't a good technician know everything about the airplane he works on, including how it flys. Most of the time the technician can make the airplane do things a pilot can't.

David
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EMBQA
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:26 pm



Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 2):
I hate to say it, but airlines are like high schools. You have a bunch of little groups that don't always like each other or what they have to say.

Yea... the damb Materials guys can never get us the right stuff... let alone in enough time...!!  Wink... A good analigy.. Many of the flight crews I've delt over my career think they can walk on water and can do no wrong. Sun glasses, leather flight jacket, Flight Attendents swooning over them. Most could not find their way out of a room even with a map. On the plus side, they are off set by a great group of crews that have been a pleasure to work along side.
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dash500
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:28 pm



Quoting LH4116 (Thread starter):
I've also heard that they call us "those who didn't make it in

That's really a stupid way of thinking. Why everyone have to be or would like to be a pilot?

Some pilots should have CRM classes.(with C meaning company or corporate)...

AMT's have all my respect. My father was one of them.
 
wilco737
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:13 pm

I don't hate them - why should I? I trust them, they repair and fix my airplane I am flying - so better not piss them off Big grin
I only had once or twice a technicians where I thought: is he at the right place here or shouldn't he be anywhere else? but most of our technicians are very good and are doing a great job. So no need to hate them  Wink

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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:17 pm

Not at my airline. While pilots always will be pilots (in my experience, tendencies toward arrogance and over-confidence, as others here have already said), at my airline, we all get along. Now, everyone has their reputation- some pilots are known for never squawking anything, while we dread the return of other pilots, who are known for filling several pages in the logbook with ridiculous little squawks like "cabin pillows not fluffy enough". BUT- we get along! Some of us actually go hunting and fishing together.
Now, maintenance's relationship with the parts department, however, is another story!


At my old job, however, the pilots definitely looked down on everyone they set eyes on. That included us- contracted maintenance- and the airline's own maintenance representatives. But part of that was cultural....cough cough, Japanese....in that culture, everyone has their place and knows it. And, apparently, pilots are a very high-place in an airline. No delay was ever 'acceptable', unless it was to bring more sandwiches to the aircraft, because the pilots felt hungry! Yes, there was some animosity there. But, that airline also had some American and Australian pilots, and they were GREAT to work around!!

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 2):
I hate to say it, but airlines are like high schools.

You're right! But I think most of life is like high school. For some reason, people mature through college, and then revert back into a high school mentality, it seems to me.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:52 pm

Yeah it's funny I know of some good pilots when I worked at NWA generally I got along pretty good with the old former Republic guys and the old red tail former Northwest Orient guys were A holes. ESPECIALLY the guys who flew the 727. I don't know what it was with that group but they were the worst. They would never get out my way when I had to work in the cockpit to fix something, One pilot wouldn't take the hint and I threw his crew bag out of the cockpit and told him he would be next if he didn't get out of my way.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:35 pm



Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 7):
Key work(s) here STUDENT PILOT they think they are only ones that know anything about the airplane. Truth is most of all the pilots I deal with every night respect the maintenance staff.

As David said "student pilot" talking.  Smile.
but irrespective...There could be bad apples at both places.
Out here,where I work its a friendly first name basis between Flt ops & Mx,Its teamwork that takes an airline forward.
one can never generalize.
regds
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jetstar
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:41 pm

In my corporate aviation days I did run into a few pilots who thought they were gods gift to aviation and considered mechanics grease monkeys. One of them told me that he felt that mechanics doing inspections would find problems so they could justify their jobs.

I found that military pilots tended to be a little more aloof to mechanics than civilian trained pilots because in the military the pilots were officers and the mechanics were enlisted personnel and were not allowed to socialize together.

When I worked at these corporate jobs in the 1980’s, a lot of the corporate senior pilots and chief pilots were World War 2 pilots, and some of them had an holier than god attitude because they flew their missions not knowing if they would survive while the mechanics safely stayed back at the bases, I speak from experience because I worked for 2 of them.

I used to let my Chief Pilot’s know in a round about way that as a pilot, I could do their job as Chief Pilot quite easily, but they could not do my maintenance job, and as you can expect they were not to happy hearing that from me.

Considering I wore both hats at the time, mechanic and pilot, I always considered myself a mechanic first and a pilot second. I used to tell the other pilots in the companies I worked for that if the flight department ever closed down, they could have a tough time finding another JetStar captains job and probably would have to relocate somewhere, where for me, my A&P was my meal ticket, my toolbox had wheels on it and with my experience I would have a mechanics job on the airport working for an FBO in no time at all.

But in my ten years in corporate aviation, mechanics and pilots really did need each other and almost always got along really great. In corporate aviation almost all the companies who operated a medium size and up airplane have a full time mechanic for each airplane and while the pilot was usually the boss, they would listen to their mechanic because the chief pilot would look bad if there was any problems with the airplane. In my Gulfstream maintenance job, the entire flight department was one happy group, we all got along really great, on and off the job.

I knew some corporations that even promoted their Director of Maintenance to Director of Flight Operations over senior company pilots, so the pilots now had to report to a mechanic, this deflated some pilot’s egos, especially those former military pilots
 
pilotpip
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:08 am

We don't work without them fixing it, and they don't work if we're not breaking it  Smile

Mechanics are a great group of guys/gals. They get to see a side of the aircraft that we don't and know a different perspective on things. I like to talk about this stuff as often as possible with them.
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lowrider
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:24 am

That is about the best summary I have read. As a great actor once said, "A man's got to know his limitations". This not only applies to aircraft limitations, but personal ones as well. It takes a lot of work by a lot of people to make one airline flight happen. Some part are more interesting to the general public than others. There is a reason that the movie called "Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo", and not "Weeks of Arduous Work to Prep and Modify for Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo". It is a bit like theater, everyone sees the actors, but few see all the behind the scenes action that makes it possible for the actors to do their jobs.

[Edited 2008-10-18 19:27:25]
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aogdesk
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:22 am

It's TRUE!! I hate mechanics with a passion!! Oh......yeah....thats right, I'm a mechanic. Never mind. (Say it like Gilda Radner used to)

I highly suspect that in a "student" setting, some of the student pilots think its cool to look down on mechanics. Sadly, a few.....VERY few......keep that mentality once they head out into the real world, but for the most part, pilots tend to have a lot of respect for mechanics, and vice versa.
Oh yeah....there certainly are the sky gods that can't seem to muster up the strength to make eye contact with the mechanics, but they're few and far between.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:56 am



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 10):
I only had once or twice a technicians where I thought: is he at the right place here or shouldn't he be anywhere else?

They tend not to last long in the real world. We have the occasional guy like this and usually they get fired witin a few weeks, as soon as we notice their lack of performance (in one case we seriously contemplated to report the guy to the aviation authority due to his lack of knowledge, even though he had a most impressive CV. Well, he was good in talking a good job).

quote=FredT,reply=6]Once they leave their protected little world, they will find out very soon that cooperation is the name of the game for successful individuals and successful companies alike. Those who are slow learners in this respect have a higher-than-average chance of finding themselves pumping gas into the cars of aviation technicians on their way to their aviation job. Smile[/quote]

Nice comment!

My old chief instructor during my apprenticeship once told us that in an airline EVERYBODY is necessary for success, down to the lowest cleaner. If the toilets on the plane are not properly cleaned, the passengers will see it and fly with the competition airline next time.


Quoting Jetstar (Reply 14):
I found that military pilots tended to be a little more aloof to mechanics than civilian trained pilots because in the military the pilots were officers and the mechanics were enlisted personnel and were not allowed to socialize together.

I had this experience as well, working for a big American cargo airline, which recruits mainly from the USAF, but usually the experienced captains either sorted them out behind closed cockpit doors, or, if the new F/O became too obnoxious, turned a blind eye while we sorted him out.
Afterwards they usualy understood that civilian aviation is not the military.
Though many of my younger collegues started with their aviation career while working as maintenance staff in the German Luftwaffe and they said that there also existed a very close relationship between pilots and maintenance crew.
In one case I got told, a high ranking general officer was from time to time coming to this particular squadron to borrow a Tornado to do his flying hours to keep flight pay. After one of these occasions, he, who originally started out as a mech and later became a fighter pilot, invited all of the MX staff to a big hangar party. When the techs arrived at the party in the evening, dressed up in their walking out uniforms, a major told them to disappear, since this party was for officers only. Shortly afterwards the general arrived and saw the techs outside (all of them enlisted men and NCOs). He asked them why they were not inside, upon which they told him the reason. The general vanished into the hangar for a few minutes, apparently it became very noisy inside for a few minutes and afterwards told the techs to come inside. For the rest of the evening the major (a pilot) was serving drinks to the techs.

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 17):
I highly suspect that in a "student" setting, some of the student pilots think its cool to look down on mechanics. Sadly, a few.....VERY few......keep that mentality once they head out into the real world, but for the most part, pilots tend to have a lot of respect for mechanics, and vice versa.

Exactly! They have to trust us and we have to trust them.

Jan
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HAWK21M
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:22 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):
My old chief instructor during my apprenticeship once told us that in an airline EVERYBODY is necessary for success,

Wise words.

Pilots Knows a Mechanic/AME/AMT that has the knowledge to give him enough respect,and its reciprocated by the Mx crew too.

When we discuss topics varying from aviation to politics to technology....One would find a similiar frequency of thiniking with most.

There are exceptions....who end up as very lonely people.Thats their choice.  Smile

regds
MEL
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:09 am

With our station, many pilots, flight attendants and engineers meet regularly after work at a certain local pub or at parties. It used to be like a big family (actually several of my younger colleagues, who started at this base when it was still brand new, used to live in the same appartment block back then as many pilots and flight attendants and some habe been now for many years in long term relationships with flight attendants (one of my American colleagues actualy married a German F/A and today they have a baby son and just bought a house last year).
There are some arrogant idiots among the pilots, but they are usually equally despised by their own colleagues, same as I have met some idiots of licenced engineers, who have an attitude that they are the only ones who know how to fix and aircraft and everybody else is useless. These people usually don't last long here, same as the lazy and incompetent ones. Too many complaints about them during probation period and they get the sack.

Jan
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boeing767mech
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:02 am



Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 17):
It's TRUE!! I hate mechanics with a passion!! Oh......yeah....thats right, I'm a mechanic.



Quoting LH4116 (Thread starter):

I'm wondering if airline pilots realty hate aircraft technicians and mechanics

Time for me to vent.. I HATE to be called a mechanic. I prefer technician. We as technicians work hard to learn everything about our aircraft to make it safe for our company and passnegers

MECHANICS are the people I take my car too, for an oil change (jiffy lube) Mechanics in aviation are the guys that do the least amount possible. He/she can do the check/service oil and tires, but doesn't want to try to get involve in the more detail items like troubleshooting.

TECHNICIANS do there check and and dive deep into troubleshooting everything from a broken toilet to a autopilot. He is the one that is clearing the placard's that where put on during the day. I think we should all try to be technicians or engineers not mechanics.

Just my two cents.

David

PS. I started out as a mechanic and now trying to becomes a master technican but have alot to learn.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:33 pm



Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 21):
Time for me to vent.. I HATE to be called a mechanic. I prefer technician. We as technicians work hard to learn everything about our aircraft to make it safe for our company and passnegers

MECHANICS are the people I take my car too, for an oil change (jiffy lube) Mechanics in aviation are the guys that do the least amount possible. He/she can do the check/service oil and tires, but doesn't want to try to get involve in the more detail items like troubleshooting.

TECHNICIANS do there check and and dive deep into troubleshooting everything from a broken toilet to a autopilot. He is the one that is clearing the placard's that where put on during the day. I think we should all try to be technicians or engineers not mechanics.

Actually I prefer the old British (and Irish) term "Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer" (which was the title of my original Irish licence and in British English usage is opposed to the "Chartered Engineers" who actually design aircraft). I used to be a mechanic years ago, when I was not allowed to certify my own work and worked strictly under the supervision of others. doing menial jobs. Since I passed various government exams of varying dgree of difficulty and passed theexperience requirements, I think I'm working in a different class than a guy just out of his apprenticeship.
I consider myself to be on the same level as the captain. As long as the aircraft is on ground and the captain hasn't signed the acceptance in the tech log, the aircraft is my responsibility. I decide, within the limits of my licence, if the aircraft is airworthy or not and if I say no, it will stay on ground, since I have the liability if something goes wrong (see the accident in Spain). Most pilots actually see it the same. I have never (and will never) sign off an aircraft I'm not 100 percent willing to flyin with (and I have a high sense of survival) and I have done so in the past (I have volunteered to fly a few sectors with them if they were not happy. This usually calmed them down).

I understand that the FAA speaks of Airframe and Powerplant Mechanics for people who do the same job (I also have a FAA A&P licence), but if you apply in the British influenced world for a job as "mechanic", expect to do the menial jobs, like greasing and opening and closing panels. If you want to do the more responsible jobs, you'll have to answer the ads as "licenced Engineer".

Jan

Jan
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EMBQA
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:10 pm



Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 21):
Time for me to vent.. I HATE to be called a mechanic. I prefer technician. We as technicians work hard to learn everything about our aircraft to make it safe for our company and passnegers

Oh I agree... but the US Dept of Labor lists Aircraft Technicians as non-skilled labor, yet we must pass an FAA approved school, FAA testing and have a FAA License to do our job. They list Auto Mechanics as skilled labor and what do they need....ASE....?
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
saab2000
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:18 pm

Hate Technicians? NEVER!!

They are the invisible ones in the business and are totally underappreciated by most folks, especially the flying public. Yesterday I had a minor write-up in ORF and I thanked the guy for coming out and tried hard to be friendly and courteous. There needs to be trust, understanding and communication between the engineers/mechanics/technicians and the flight crews.

I really appreciate the mechanics at my company and if there are pilots out there who think they are something better I want little to do with them.

Elitism among pilots is really dumb and has no place in my cockpit.
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aogdesk
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:33 pm



Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 21):
Time for me to vent.. I HATE to be called a mechanic

I never minded being called (or calling myself) a mechanic. Sometimes though, we fall into the habit of saying "I'm JUST a mechanic". Usually that occurs when we're asked by family or friends if we're a pilot.....
 
BE77
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:59 pm

I consider myself lucky...my AME lets me help when there is something to be fixed on my ac. Of course, I am under very close supervision (don't forget that the most dangerous thing in aviation is a pilot with a screwdriver)
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B6JFKH81
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:12 pm



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 8):
Yea... the damb Materials guys can never get us the right stuff... let alone in enough time...!!

...not when I am down there with you LOL!  box 

~H81
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
acNDTTech
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:20 pm

None of the pilots and mechanics that I know "hate" each other. That doesn't mean that they haven't ever had disagreements, but overall, they do respect each other's points of view.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:19 pm



Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 21):
I HATE to be called a mechanic. I prefer technician

Maybe you should change your profile to Boeing767tech....
 
boeing767mech
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:47 pm



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 29):
Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 21):
I HATE to be called a mechanic. I prefer technician

Maybe you should change your profile to Boeing767tech....

Maybe I should but considering 15 years ago when I started in aviation and I started working on 767's I was a mechanic since I pulled panels and applied LPS to blige area's. But since then I have gone from a mech to a tech but can't change the name. Maybe your tag line shoud be change from NWA the evel empire to NWA Nittwits with airplanes.

David
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stratosphere
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:54 pm



Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 30):
Maybe I should but considering 15 years ago when I started in aviation and I started working on 767's I was a mechanic since I pulled panels and applied LPS to blige area's. But since then I have gone from a mech to a tech but can't change the name. Maybe your tag line shoud be change from NWA the evel empire to NWA Nittwits with airplanes.

LOL I also use the NWA nitwits with airplanes line also. I know the dilemma you have actually it was AMFA that got the term changed at NWA from mechanic to technician. Atleast there anyway. But unfortunately we as mechanic/technicians sometimes make it harder for ourselves to be looked at as professional..
 
delcoder
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:34 pm

I spent my last 15 years with American Airlines as a Technical Crew Chief. The most distasteful of my duties was to go on test hops. I found the test pilots to be arrogant, distrustful, and almost hostile towards myself and my fellow tech crew chiefs. If we explained a certain system operation, they would remain noncommital until they called the simulator techs to verify our explanation. I cannot begin to tell you all the boxes we changed that we knew did not need to be changed. A case in point: One of the tests we did was to do a 360 degree right and left turn and check for compass splits greater than six degrees. The MD80 has mechanical gyros and based on the random spin axis of the gyros at power up, you are going to get six degree splits sometimes. Engineering and Honeywell advised if this split occurred, to drive one of the compass indicators off by 30 degrees and let the gyros sync back in. Chances are the split would go away. Pilots response, "Fix it and call us." So we would change a gyro, do the required check and hope the next test hop we got a better spin axis relationship. Don't ask me how many days were added to "C" checks by these prima donnas. Do you think they cared about the $200,000 a day they cost the airline because of their intransigence? Not a chance.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:13 am



Quoting Delcoder (Reply 32):
Don't ask me how many days were added to "C" checks by these prima donnas. Do you think they cared about the $200,000 a day they cost the airline because of their intransigence? Not a chance.

We had that happen at FedEx also...We had a test pilot crew that did a C check test hop and they failed the Weather Radar.. Apparantly they were setting up the radar different than the line crews did. The MX and engineers could not find anything wrong with this a/c so they got the sister ship to that one and low and behold it failed the check flight also even though the radar was never written up on either a/c. It was determined the flight crew was at fault. They cost FedEx thousands of dollars. Then just recently the flight crew management came out with an oxygen mask test for the flight crews to do on the 727 in total contravention of the maintenance manual. They damn near grounded the entire 727 fleet because they were doing something that even the Boeing said the system was not designed to han and they cost the company AGAIN untold thousands of dollars.
 
boeing767mech
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:24 am



Quoting Delcoder (Reply 32):
Don't ask me how many days were added to "C" checks by these prima donnas. Do you think they cared about the $200,000 a day they cost the airline because of their intransigence? Not a chance.

Wonder if these where the same pilots that took off in a TWA MD-80 without the IRU's aligned, after we took over TWA.

David
Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
 
474218
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Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:46 am



Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 21):
I HATE to be called a mechanic.

Move to Europe they call them "engineers" there?
 
boeing767mech
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:55 am



Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 21):
I think we should all try to be technicians or engineers not mechanics.

Yep they sure do.

David
Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
 
474218
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Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:59 am



Quoting LH4116 (Thread starter):
I'm wondering if airline pilots realty hate aircraft technicians and mechanics.

I don't think pilots hate technicians or mechanics, but I do think pilots don't like to see people working on the aircraft they are about to fly. When they arrive they expect the aircraft to be ready to go. So some technicians/mechanics take their inpatient's when further maintenance is required as not liking technicians/mechanics.

I know when I was in the USAF I had to repair a panel that was right in front of the cockpit just before a flight, when the pilot arrived I could hear him say "what the hell is he doing"?
 
Dogbreath
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:24 am

Like everything in this world, respect works both ways.

Having been a ground engineer (Engines and Airframes) before becoming a Pilot, I've seen both sides and in my experience it doesn't happen very much.
Truth, Honour, Loyalty
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:19 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 35):


Move to Europe they call them "engineers" there?

Aircraft Maintenance Engineer is the term out here for licenced personnell.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:02 pm



Quoting Delcoder (Reply 32):
I found the test pilots to be arrogant, distrustful, and almost hostile towards myself and my fellow tech crew chiefs.

I'll bet they are that way to other "line" pilots, other people in general and even at home!. Thank goodness it's a very small percentage.
 
delcoder
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:18 pm



Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 40):
I'll bet they are that way to other "line" pilots, other people in general and even at home!. Thank goodness it's a very small percentage.

Definately. On rare occasion a test pilot was required to fly with a line pilot as copilot. Their briefing consisted of "Don't do anything unless told to do so. Don't make any comments unless asked. Let me make all the decisions as to whether tests pass or fail." Then on the other hand, the line pilots were not above taking shots at the test pilots. Frequently, they were accused of releasing airplanes with obvious faults. Two groups that shared a common animosity.
 
411A
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:31 pm



Quoting LH4116 (Thread starter):
I've also noticed that the pilots refuse to speak to us "non pilots", mostly because the look down on as and over valuate themselves. I've also heard that they call us "those who didn't make it in" (those who couldn't make it to become a pilot, studies maintenance instead).

How very odd.

Perhaps when these student pilots actually do make the grade, and become productive, their attitude promptly changes.
In my small charter company, we would be up the creek without good ground engineers.
We carry two (sometimes three) with us at all times, to be SURE the airplane remains serviceable and to minimize delays
We rely on these folks to keep us going, and they do a fine job....and are paid well for their efforts.
I personally treat them well, for without their dedicated efforts, us pilots would be....dead meat, salarywise.

Fact.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:42 pm



Quoting 411A (Reply 42):
Perhaps when these student pilots actually do make the grade, and become productive, their attitude promptly changes.

The smart ones adapt....the rest stay lonely.  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:35 pm



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 23):
Oh I agree... but the US Dept of Labor lists Aircraft Technicians as non-skilled labor, yet we must pass an FAA approved school, FAA testing and have a FAA License to do our job.

The U.S. Dept of Labor needs to sit down with the F.A.A. and have a nice chat....

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 23):
They list Auto Mechanics as skilled labor and what do they need....ASE....?

That's odd....

Luckly, as a deaf technician...I have yet to meet a disgruntled pilot. I hope to never have a spat with one...
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
acNDTTech
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:39 am

Talk about the ones that everybody hates, it's us NDTer's. When we get called out, someone found something that just didn't look quite right....and it may end up costing big bucks to fix what we find. I've already been part of scrapping a couple G-II's and a Jetstar - corrosion so bad that the planes weren't worth the cost of the repairs.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:02 am



Quoting AcNDTTech (Reply 45):
I've already been part of scrapping a couple G-II's and a Jetstar - corrosion so bad that the planes weren't worth the cost of the repairs

Thats an Achievement.....You should be proud of doing a good job & so should your airline.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
stratosphere
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:28 am



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 23):
Oh I agree... but the US Dept of Labor lists Aircraft Technicians as non-skilled labor, yet we must pass an FAA approved school, FAA testing and have a FAA License to do our job. They list Auto Mechanics as skilled labor and what do they need....ASE....?

Actually we are listed as semi-skilled...But I am more troubled with your second statement. This somehow holier than thou attitude that some of us have being [email protected]'s is the reason we had no support during our strike at NWA. I worked in plant maintenence and found it harder than working the line believe it or not..In GSE you don't have such nice manuals and prints to go by..You wind up troubleshooting by the seat of your pants. They are every bit as skilled labor as we are. We need to embrace our skills as diverse as they are they are skills none the less. Also the ASE has quite a few levels to master before you get them all.
 
Dalmd88
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RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:15 am



Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 21):
Time for me to vent.. I HATE to be called a mechanic. I prefer technician.

I'm OK with mechanic. Mechanics in my eyes fix things. When I hear engineer I think of Choo Choos or a guy that designs things. When I hear technician I think of 'I don't get my hands dirty'. I don't mean that as disrespect to those that prefer the term. I do think that a grease gun is part of the job. Some nights I get an autoland problem, the next night I might get a lube job. Both jobs are important. Kind of leads us back to the topic of the thread.

I got my A&P and BS at ERAU Daytona. Yes, I paid too much for my A&P. If I had a do over I would do it the same way. While I was there I was in a Fraternity. We always had a few mechanics, a few engineers (guys that design planes/spaceships), a few business/computer Sci guys, a whole lot of pilot types. Some of the pilot types came in with the GOD mentality. They were quickly brought down to reality. When their POS car left them on the side of the road which frat brother came to help? When they had an up coming check ride and had a systems question whose door did they knock on? Personally I think living with that mix made us all better at what we do. We all understood what the other position were about. We saw each other as drinking buddies, volleyball teammates, roommates.

I remember the exact moment one of my pilot brothers got how important aircraft mechanics where. This guy was already very grounded. Before pilot school he had worked as a plumber ass't and his dad was a NYC transit cop. He loved swinging a hammer around the house and was an avid car mechanic. One day toured an air museum. He came back in amazement that aircraft mechanics could basically reproduce a airplane. He thought that was so cool that I could take a bunch of flat metal and bend it into airplane parts. That is exactly why I love sheetmetal. It is an art that I wish I could do every day. Some see it as just pounding rivets. I always think it as creating something. You start with a out of limit dent. You make it into a hole. Next you make the repair parts. Then you install them. When you started it was an ugly dent, now you have a beautiful doubler with a nice orderly rivet layout. Best is, you created it.
 
stratosphere
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

RE: Is It True That Pilots Hate Technicians?

Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:53 am



Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 48):

I know you might have spent a lot for your education...But you Riddle guys smoked most [email protected]'s I have worked with so maybe it wasn't in vein.....Are you ready for the losers replacement mechanics that you will aquire in this merger? Be ready to do all the work because they can't.

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