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okierj
Topic Author
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Aviation Colleges

Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:15 am

Sorry if this is not in the correct forum. My daughter has a friend in her high school that is interested in aviation and would like to become an airline pilot. He is graduating this year and would like to study aviation and get his license in college. He would also like to go out to the west coast. We live in Oklahoma and don't know very much about that area. Would those of you who are pilots have any suggestions. Thanks!
 
sccutler
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RE: Aviation Colleges

Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:51 am

Wets Coast is not such a great plan; on the other hand, in Oklahoma, you have a simply outstanding aviation program available at in-state tuition rates, at the Oklahoma State University in Stillwater, OK. Very well-regarded, and a frequent source of recruits for carriers and other aviation businesses.

http://aviation2.okstate.edu/
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
N353SK
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RE: Aviation Colleges

Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:27 am

OU also has a commendable flight program.


filler filler filler filler
 
bomber996
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RE: Aviation Colleges

Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:22 am

If you want a college degree with your training there are quite a few really good schools out there. Probably the best two are Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach, FL and Prescott, Arizona, or The University of North Dakota in Grand Forks, North Dakota. A few others with good aviation programs are Purdue, Indiana State University, Utah State University, Aurburn, Daniel Webster College, and Florida Institue of Technology just to name a few.

Hope this helps.

Peace  box 
"We've recently upped our standards, so up yours." - Federal Aviation Administration
 
ThePinnacleKid
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RE: Aviation Colleges

Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:25 am

As an airline pilot.. my advice is to NOT get a "flying" degree... Get a normal business degree or something along those lines... and fly and get the ratings on the side. It will cost him a LOT less and as an added bonus to the monetary savings.. it could be faster paced, and gives him a degree to fall back on if/when he gets furloughed... (he can have a space filler until he gets recalled)

I went to a university to fly, within my first semester, I had switched and flew outside the university. BEST decision I ever did coming into this profession.

Okie.. how's it goin? I'm sure I've actually spoke to you on a few occasions.. small world.

[Edited 2008-10-28 18:26:51]

[Edited 2008-10-28 18:28:03]
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
iairallie
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RE: Aviation Colleges

Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:18 am

UVU has an aviation program which I am actually enrolled in (last semester AVSC BS Admin emphasis). I agree with thepinnaclekid. This industry is so volitile it is good to have something completely non aviation related to fall back on. Your friend shouldn't wait for graduation to start flight training. He can be working on the first steps now. The earlier you start the better. Schools like flight safety and ATP have good accelerated programs. Many of my Embry-riddle pilot friends wish they's taken that route.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
thegreatchecko
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RE: Aviation Colleges

Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:13 am

I'd second what the others are saying. A degree outside of aviation is a good idea.

For people like me who don't really want to study anything else, a double major in Aviaition Science and Aviation Management might be a good option.

Studying in-state at OU and OSU would probably be the best place to go. In state tuition and a plethora of majors to choose from if they want to double major or decide that aviation isn't for them.

Checko
(Saint Louis University - Parks College Grad - Http://www.slu.edu/)
"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
 
acNDTTech
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RE: Aviation Colleges

Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:51 am

Too many to mention......In OK, you definately have Spartan. They have been around since 1928, so they are probably one of the oldest (if not the oldest) flying schools in the country. What that translates to is this - they've been doing it a long time, so they know what they are doing and how to do it quick. If a student can't keep up, naturally it's going to cost them more......this is a major complaint that I've heard from students from several schools, "It cost me $10,000.00 more than they said it would." Those costs are based upon being able to obtain the ratings in the minimum time. They are pretty expensive, but all schools that have flying programs are. Are they the best? It just depends - as a student, you get back what you put in. Older students - usually in their mid to late 20's and early 30's seem to do better....probably due to the maturity level. A Private, Instrument, Commercial, Multi-Engine, CFI, CFII, and Multi CFI rating is the same no matter where you get it. The candidate still has to perform to the Practical Test Standards.

I agree with the "flying degree." Probably not a great idea. Aviation Management, Technology, Maintenance, etc., aren't too bad of choices. At least most of the classes can be applied to situations outside of the aviation field.

Finally, I hope that this young man doesn't think he is going to make a lot of money being a pilot. He isn't going to be going right into a major as a F.O. While flying as a F.O. for a regional, air taxi, or instructing (for about 10 years), he will probably also need to work 2 jobs - if he is lucky, they will both be flying.....i.e. traffic reports, and instructing or regional airline F.O. and instructing. GOOD LUCK, I wish him the best!
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Aviation Colleges

Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:04 am

If, as some others have suggested, he decides to get a degree at a non-aviation school, then he could definitely look into an aerospace engineering degree (or other engineering, or business, or whatever).

The west coast is a rather large area - any idea of where he wants to be that's more specific?

In the Los Angeles area, there are USC, UCLA and Caltech, that all have good engineering schools.

Stanford and Berkeley are up in the Bay Area.

Cal Poly San Luis Obispo is somewhere in between LA and SF, as is UC Santa Barbara.

UC San Diego is down in San Diego (obviously).

I'm sure there are plenty of others - those are just the first that came to mind.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
alaska737
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Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:24 am



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 5):
Schools like flight safety and ATP have good accelerated programs. Many of my Embry-riddle pilot friends wish they's taken that route.

Maybe the ones that cant handle the Riddle way, ATP is good but I dont buy this 300 hour RJ pilot bull shit. Nothing against ATP because I do hear its a good program but I think pilots need more expirence, especially in the decision making area. I have also heard that even though your guarnteed an interview, you will rarely get the job without being a CFI for a while.


Okierj, If you want to know about Embry Riddle, feel free to pm me.
 
ThePinnacleKid
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:47 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:17 pm



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 9):
Maybe the ones that cant handle the Riddle way

You're joking right???

ERAU.. while I have friends from there.. even they make fun of it once they move on... generally it is made fun of by a lot of the airline pilots (it's not like their brochures say)... (gross generalization here) but it's from the arrogance shown by some of these Riddle grads. They tend to be the "legends in their own mind" crowd that can't get over having gone to Riddle when they're now flying at AIRLINE XYZ.

ERAU's flying instruction isn't "experience" vs "non-experience"... I was at an aviation university; on a full ride for academics, I turned down ERAU to go to my school of choice... hated the flight department at mine 'cause it was slow; switched to Aviation Mgmt degree (best choice I ever made at the recommendation of some friends that were airline pilots)... and went to ATP, then instructed for ATP. By far the best bang for the buck that I've seen.

If you want to talk experience, ATP people get more multi time than most other people EVER have before they get hired with their first airline (even over the riddle grads)... THAT is real experience, I'll take twin over single ANY day... at the airlines we don't fly single-engine equipment. Furthermore, when I was a student with ATP I was flying from coast to coast in the seminole... by the time I became an instructor I had flown my lil' twin as far west as Riverside, CA and as far east as Stuart, FL hitting major cities all across the US in between (Phoenix, Las Vegas, Dallas, Houston, Memphis, Atlanta, Jacksonville, etc...). Exposure to more of the ATC system and more weather/terrain variances than most "Aviation Universities" ever expose their grads to.

That said, not all "accelerated" programs are built equal and some do let you down, but then again some universities do the exact same, sometime just a normal FBO will be the best route! It's called researching what's available and going what you think is the best choice at the time... Try to remain as optimistic and realistic as possible and be flexible with decisions.

So no, having been in the airline industry for 9 years, flying as an airline pilot for 2, having gone to an aviation university myself, having flight instructed... NO WAY will I EVER tell someone wanting to become an airline pilot to go for the purpose of getting a "flying" degree...

-On the issue of 300 hr pilots at the airline... I agree with you completely there... I don't agree with pilots not instructing or getting more time before getting hired... that said, I weigh instructing more heavily than time building... (you learn more instructing than you ever will just flying a plane)... Thankfully, most airline don't hire without some "quality" time... even at the low hiring hour point.. the better to work for regionals required more hours than the lower end ones.

[Edited 2008-10-29 06:37:16]
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
alaska737
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:29 pm



Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 10):
I weigh instructing more heavily than time building

Agree

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 10):
but it's from the arrogance shown by some of these Riddle grads. They tend to be the "legends in their own mind"

Yes, there are those people

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 10):
THAT is real experience, I'll take twin over single ANY day

Agree again, but I am getting plenty of multi hours at Riddle, I should have about 75-85 when I graduate, including about 350 TT. Of course I came in with my PPL, WHICH I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU DO BEFORE COMMING TO RIDDLE.

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 10):
NO WAY will I EVER tell someone wanting to become an airline pilot to go for the purpose of getting a "flying" degree

You dont have to tell them to, but dont shoot them down for doing it. Im sorry but I have friends who dropped out of Riddle to go fly at North Aire across the airport and their FAR/AIM, Systems, Insturment, ect knowledge is no where near ours, mainly because every class we take is teaching it, in some way or form. The teachers have real world expirence, and that really pays off. There are things or aspects of Riddle that I strongly disagree with but none that I would dropout for.

As for the "Flying Degree" I think its really funny people always say oh thats a bad degree, I mean what if you lose your medical or decide you dont want to fly...ITS STILL A COLLEGE DEGREE!!!!!! What about the 10 million people who go to ABC State University and major in Philosiphy or Art? If I were to lose my medical, I can still get a good, non-flying job in the industry with my degree and business minor. I can easily get a good job outside the industry as well, any employer would see that I, or any other "Flying Degree" has great math and science skills.
 
thegreatchecko
Posts: 689
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RE: Aviation Colleges

Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:36 pm



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 11):
As for the "Flying Degree" I think its really funny people always say oh thats a bad degree, I mean what if you lose your medical or decide you dont want to fly...ITS STILL A COLLEGE DEGREE!!!!!! What about the 10 million people who go to ABC State University and major in Philosiphy or Art? If I were to lose my medical, I can still get a good, non-flying job in the industry with my degree and business minor. I can easily get a good job outside the industry as well, any employer would see that I, or any other "Flying Degree" has great math and science skills.

True, but it is a lot easier to get a job if one has a degree in management or something completely unrelated. Aviation Science will teach you how to fly a plane, but without a dispatcher license or an A&P, its tough to really apply that degree. As for "great math and science skills," while you might have them, I don't think that's something I'd make a generalization about when talking about pilots.  Wink

Take it from a guy who has felt like he was on the brink of losing his job a few time this year, having a degree other than Aviation Science has made me feel a lot better and more marketable would I have to stop flying and get a new job.

Just have a good backup, that's all I'm saying.

Checko
"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
 
DiamondFlyer
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:02 am

First post for me here, just finally had the motivation to get on, so here goes.

From a current college student, here is what I would do, if I could go back two years, and try the whole thing over again new.

Before you get to college, do your research. Research any college that has any interest to you what so ever. Go visit, visit as many schools as you can to get a feel for it. I didn't, and regret that. Secondly, evaluate if you really think you can handle going far away from home. Sure, right now, you want to go, but in four months, I'd put a 50/50 bet on you wanting to go back home. Third, if you really want to study aviation, go for it, but go somewhere that leaves you an out. In a year, if you don't like it, it is sure easier to stay at the college your at, and just change majors, than to move your entire life to start at a new school.

Since you said your from Oklahoma, I'm sure you've checked out the University of Oklahoma. I don't know much, but I'm sure someone does. Also, in the Great Plains/Midwest, you've got UND, Purdue, and where I used to attend, Central Missouri. Great school, about an hour out of Kansas City. Small program, in a small town, but its very nice.

However, I transferred out of there, because, I didn't think I was flying enough, due to weather. That may have been a bad decision, but alas, I'm down in Daytona at Embry Riddle. This may sound harsh, and take it with a grain of salt, but I'm going to give you my 4 month impression. Academically, I love it here. Challenging classes make for more learning and that is great. However, flight wise, I can't say that I'm happy. I would totally tell anyone to come in with a Private, just to save money and time. However, just realize this. Riddle has their way they do things, which may be very different than how you did it previously. There is a VERY, VERY steep learning curve to get acclimated to the training environment here. I felt ridiculed after my third lesson or so, because, I didn't know how to do some little thing. Regardless, you'll do lots of "flying" in the simulator. If that is your style, cool, if not, good luck.

But, the most important thing about going off to college is. Take advice people give you with a grain of salt. Don't let them tell you what to do. Make your own path, be your own person. Don't think a name will get you somewhere. Good luck on your decision.
From my cold, dead hands
 
ThePinnacleKid
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:47 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:49 am



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 11):
You dont have to tell them to, but dont shoot them down for doing it. Im sorry but I have friends who dropped out of Riddle to go fly at North Aire across the airport and their FAR/AIM, Systems, Insturment, ect knowledge is no where near ours, mainly because every class we take is teaching it, in some way or form. The teachers have real world expirence, and that really pays off. There are things or aspects of Riddle that I strongly disagree with but none that I would dropout for.

Hey, some of my good friends are Riddle guys... they get genuinely harassed (friendly teasing way) by the rest of us... Most of them actually wish they hadn't gone to Riddle now that it is said and done and we're all airline guys... (For the record. There are those "special children" from every walk of life including FBO's, ATP's, FlightSafety, and even Riddle that give each group their own reputation, Riddle just tends to have more of them.) =)

As far as the aviation degree, dude, I have an Aviation Management myself... while, I enjoyed the "aviation" classes.. and my university was Awesome! (Academically); I can tell you a lot of the aviation classes are completely antiquated... as you'll find with any college class.. I just can't personally go around and give advice for someone to attend an aviation university... If someone asks my opinion, it's to get a normal degree, fly on the side... that's all I'm sayin' not that I would belittle someone who does go that route... after all, I went that route.

Alaska, you really do seem like an intelligent guy, just a little into the Riddle thing; which is fine, school pride is good, just don't drink too much Kool-Aide... but I'm sure even you realize that most college professors are about as good as the money you pay them... I know most of my college professors in the aviation department were all ex-military guys. Not to knock that at all, I REALLY appreciate and respect all military guys.. that being said, them teaching "Airline Economics" and "Airport Management" classes isn't actually a good idea. I was working for my 3rd airline when I was in college and I can tell you that the stuff in the books is OLD. In aviation if you want to know what's happening in the distant future you're talking about stuff in 30 minutes, if you want to know what's happening in the near future then you're talking about stuff that is happening in 5 minutes, everything beyond 30 minutes from now is a work of fiction (slightly exaggerated of course)... Aviation/Airlines are fast paced with changes... stuff Text Books and College Courses just can't adjust to as readily as topics such as Algebra, Physics, English, History, etc...

Take your professors with a grain of salt.. they mean well, some may be very knowledgeable, but most will be slightly out of touch with reality if they teach subjects in a specific "field" of study.

On a side note, one little thing to remember to all the up and coming airline guy... when you get to the regionals, going on and on and on about what university or what flight program you came through.. does not impress anyone, no matter how much you wish it did. It is kind of like wearing your High School letter jacket around your college campus. Just don't do it.... Do not believe the hype that by attending University XYZ, or going through Flight Program ABC, the airlines will REALLY care about you that much more... or you'll get more respect from your peers... the reality is, you still have to be qualified, you still have to interview, and at the end of the day, the university/program doesn't get you the job, You get yourself the job. And if you are hired, everyone else that is hired is also qualified equally in the companies eyes.. i.e. your training program wasn't better than their training program...

So, for the people wanting to become an airline pilot and learn to fly... YOUR job is to find the best program for YOU, not the program that worked for your neighbor, or your friend, or me for that matter... and when you do start your training with WHOEVER it is... YOU should take the time to learn the material you need to get to your end goal.. it shouldn't have to be spoon fed... It sure won't be at the airlines in initial training. Don't be "that" guy at the interview that thinks he's better than the rest and is overly cocky because of where they learned to fly. Be a true professional in every aspect of the word. The job you seek is a professional job, don't act the part, be the part.

Also, the guys that interview you, at most airlines, are mainly made up of us current line guys that volunteer to help interview. My carrier uses both F/O's and Captains... and out of about 5 people at my company there interviewing you, only 1 is from HR department, the other 4 you will talk to are all line guys. Take that for what it's worth. ; )

[Edited 2008-10-29 17:54:47]
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
acNDTTech
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:24 am

I couldn't have put it better.......well said TPK.
 
pilotpip
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:34 am

Coming from a recently furloghed airline guy with an aviation degree: GET A DEGREE OUTSIDE OF AVIATION. It hasn't done jack for me and the only job I could get in these hard times was an entry level retail position because of my lack of experience and specialized degree. Get something generic that could be applied to a variety of fields like management or marketing.

Many (not all) airlines list a 4 year degree as a minimum requirement to apply. Not one specifically lists an aviation degree.

And if you must go to a university flight program. I'll second Parks.
DMI
 
acNDTTech
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:08 pm

I don't want to push Spartan's (in Tulsa, OK) programs here, but I graduated with an Associate of Applied Science in Quality Control from there. Great program - just about everyone in the program at the time (about 28-30) had firm offers BEFORE graduation. Some of us stayed in aviation/aerospace, some went on to manufacturers of products ranging from car parts to chemicals and power, some went to 3rd party inspection firms. We did learn quite a bit about aviation, but our program really covered a broad range - and they (the instructors) let us know of the possibilities. Currently, I'm working on my Bachelor of Science in Aviation Technology, but again, even though the classes are "aviation" based, they can definately be applied to numerous fields. I guess that what I'm trying to say is this - If the student want's to go to an aviation school, fine, but try to find a program that is deversified, so that when times are tough, they can be in demand other places. Right now, in the field of Non-Destructive Testing, there are more jobs than there are people to fill them.....YES, with the economy in the shape that it's in, WE ARE IN NEED OF TECHNICIANS. Entry level techs. are starting out today in the $13 - $18 /hr range, depending on location, but as their experience increases, and certifications are obtained, $100,000.00+/yr. is not unreasonable.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:06 pm

In my opinion the best way to become an airline pilot is to take the military route and have Uncle Sam pay for your training. Great training, great benefits, livable wages, and likely a more enjoyable lifestyle than dealing with the (mis)management that exists at "regionals".

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 4):
As an airline pilot.. my advice is to NOT get a "flying" degree... Get a normal business degree or something along those lines... and fly and get the ratings on the side.



Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 16):
GET A DEGREE OUTSIDE OF AVIATION.

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark 

I agree 100%. Research the cost of a degree from a relatively affordable college (or especially a community college) combined with the cost of training at a local flight school.

Then research the cost of an aviation degree from Riddle, UND, et al with it's associated flight fees.

The difference in total cost will be in the (many) tens of thousands of dollars.

Now, even if you deem the aviation degree and associated training to be worth the extra costs, think long-term and consider how that $30-$50,000 would compound over 30 or 40 years if invested. That would be quite the retirement, and I bet the resulting sum would more than make up for any higher wages realized from having a degree from a well-known aviation university.

That said, two advantages of an aviation university come to mind:

- For someone who has already earned their private pilot certificate, the classwork involved in an aviation degree will likely be pretty easy/straightforward for them. I'm no genius, and for many of my flight courses, my books lived in my car and only came out for class. Still, I managed to get good grades, largely because I had familiarized myself with much of the subject matter beforehand.

- My time and experience on my school's flight team is something I'd never give up. I look back fondly on that time, and realize now that I learned a heck of a lot more than the subjects in which we competed. Not to mention the lifelong friendships that resulted. Typically, only aviation universities devote significant resources to supporting their NIFA flight teams.

2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
phxplanes
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:24 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:15 pm

The flight program at Arizona State is very good but not well known. The aviation classes you take are well taught. Also you can study Air Traffic Control and Aviation Management. The flight training is great and you also get your training done extremely fast. You can go from no time your freshman year and finish all your ratings by the middle of you junior year. No other college flight program will get you done that fast. You also start flying the week after school starts for freshman which is way ahead of school like embry-riddle. Finally you take a CRJ systems class and operations class and get 40 hours of sim time your senior year.

If you have any questions e-mail or message me.
 
tams747
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:52 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:26 am



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 5):
Schools like flight safety and ATP have good accelerated programs.

In my opinion these kind of schools do not give you the experience that you need to have as a pilot. However I have heard good things about the ATP program and if I had not chosen to go to Riddle ATP would have been pretty high on my lists of alternates. Ive noticed that the kids that drop out of the Riddle program say that it takes too long for them to get their ratings. They end up either changing majors or flying somewhere else to get all their ratings done but they still have to stay here for at least 4 years to get the degree.

I went through the multi private course in less than a semester and my roommate is already halfway done with his instrument that he started at the beginning of this fall semester. As long as you have good availability the instructors have to give you a certain number of activities per week and as long as you study and dont have to repeat activities you can get through it pretty fast and you will be a far more competent pilot than someone who comes out of ATP after 6 months or however long their thing lasts.
GEFT. We do this together.
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:23 am



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 9):
Maybe the ones that cant handle the Riddle way,

Um. One graduated summa cum laude. I think he not only handled the Riddle way but totally dominated it. The others were all grads so they obviously could handle it. While they all valued the education they recieved there the Riddle pro pilot grads I worked with almost universally said they would not go that route if they had it to do over again. They got out in the real world and realized out on the line no one cared if they went to Riddle vs. some other route.

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 9):
300 hour RJ pilot bull shit

At ACA we had tons of really, really low time Riddle bridge program pilots. You come out of ATP type programs with the same hours as a Riddle grad you just build those hours in a shorter time frame.

Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 12):
Take it from a guy who has felt like he was on the brink of losing his job a few time this year, having a degree other than Aviation Science has made me feel a lot better and more marketable would I have to stop flying and get a new job.



Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 16):
Coming from a recently furloghed airline guy with an aviation degree: GET A DEGREE OUTSIDE OF AVIATION. It hasn't done jack for me and the only job I could get in these hard times was an entry level retail position because of my lack of experience and specialized degree. Get something generic that could be applied to a variety of fields like management or marketing.

I think it is so adorable how a college student with no real world experience in this industry thinks he knows better than folks like those quoted above. Such refreshing naivety. I've been in the industry 8 years I 100% agree that a non-aviation degree is the smartest route.

It may sound hippocritical as I am in my last semester of an Aviation Science BS program. However, I already have a BA in a non-related field. The AVSC degree was a good way for me to bring up my GPA for grad school while studying something I love.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
thegreatchecko
Posts: 689
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:34 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:42 pm



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 21):

I think it is so adorable how a college student with no real world experience in this industry thinks he knows better than folks like those quoted above. Such refreshing naivety. I've been in the industry 8 years I 100% agree that a non-aviation degree is the smartest route.

I just found it funny you quoted the two Parks Grads... coincidence, I think not!  Silly
"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2627
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:14 pm

I don't think anyone on this thread has mentioned the most important advantage of the major aviation universities like ERAU, UND, Purdue, and Parks. Industry connections. The biggest advantage you will get from these schools is not from the classroom or from your flight courses. It is the career services office. If you go to one of these schools, please don't waste the opportunity. Do an internship.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:15 pm

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 23):
The biggest advantage you will get from these schools is not from the classroom or from your flight courses. It is the career services office. If you go to one of these schools, please don't waste the opportunity. Do an internship.

It should be noted, however, that one needn't attend a school like UND, ERAU, Purdue, etc to qualify for an airline internship.

2H4

[Edited 2008-11-01 15:22:31]
Intentionally Left Blank
 
thegreatchecko
Posts: 689
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:34 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:39 am



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 23):
I don't think anyone on this thread has mentioned the most important advantage of the major aviation universities like ERAU, UND, Purdue, and Parks. Industry connections. The biggest advantage you will get from these schools is not from the classroom or from your flight courses. It is the career services office. If you go to one of these schools, please don't waste the opportunity. Do an internship.

This I highly agree with!

While going to a smaller school may qualify you for an airline internship, it is easier to get your foot in the door with your favored airline if you go to a school with an existing relationship.

This is something that needs to be asked about when making a campus visit. What airlines do you have internship programs? Where have students from this college interned? etc...

Checko
"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:59 am



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 24):
It should be noted, however, that one needn't attend a school like UND, ERAU, Purdue, etc to qualify for an airline internship.

Additionally the larger non-university affiliated flight schools also have bridge programs and internship opportunities.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
alaska737
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:01 pm



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 21):
They got out in the real world and realized out on the line no one cared if they went to Riddle vs. some other route

Why do people always bring this up, its not like Riddle/UND grads go around telling every capt. they fly with, hey I went to so and so. I didnt go to Embry Riddle so I could tell everyone I graduated from here, I went here so I could become a better pilot and be more prepared for when I do graduate.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 21):
You come out of ATP type programs with the same hours as a Riddle grad you just build those hours in a shorter time frame.

uh...not so much, maybe in some cases but I dont think so.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 21):
I think it is so adorable how a college student with no real world experience in this industry thinks he knows better than folks like those quoted above

oh your so funny, I mean you know nothing about me, what I have done, who I know...but somehow you think that I know nothing, and have no "real world" experience...
 
PGNCS
Posts: 2260
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:07 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:43 pm



Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 4):
As an airline pilot.. my advice is to NOT get a "flying" degree...



Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 6):
I'd second what the others are saying. A degree outside of aviation is a good idea.



Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 16):
Coming from a recently furloghed airline guy with an aviation degree: GET A DEGREE OUTSIDE OF AVIATION.

I could not agree more. I had a degree in biochemistry and it got me a job when I was furloughed. The lure of the aviation degree is strong, but will not remotely compete with real world operational experience when interviewing for a flying job.

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 27):
Why do people always bring this up, its not like Riddle/UND grads go around telling every capt. they fly with, hey I went to so and so.

Um...obviously some do. I have two degrees from ERAU (and one from a UNC) and fully believe that their curriculum is overpriced and overvalued, especially by those associated with ERAU. Don't buy the hype about ERAU, it's a decent school, but not the be all and end all that many Riddle grads would have you believe.
 
DCrawley
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:18 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:35 am



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 18):

I agree 100%. Research the cost of a degree from a relatively affordable college (or especially a community college) combined with the cost of training at a local flight school.

Then research the cost of an aviation degree from Riddle, UND, et al with it's associated flight fees.

The difference in total cost will be in the (many) tens of thousands of dollars.

Now, even if you deem the aviation degree and associated training to be worth the extra costs, think long-term and consider how that $30-$50,000 would compound over 30 or 40 years if invested. That would be quite the retirement, and I bet the resulting sum would more than make up for any higher wages realized from having a degree from a well-known aviation university.

Bingo. I was talking to a girl who attends ERAU-DAB and still has a year and a half to go but cannot get anymore loans. My little bit of advice, on college in general, is to take cost seriously. If you are going to be an airline pilot, your earning out of college will be quite low for some time. Figure out what you think you would need for 4 years of college and flying, assuming all goes as planned (which it never seems to do). Then, find a loan calculator (or make an amortization table) and figure out what your monthly payments will be after your 6 month grace period. Could you, realistically, afford it?

This past year, I had the option to go and finish my BS-Accounting degree at a fairly prestigious private college. However, the financial aid package that an in-state college offered covered more costs. I decided to attend the in-state college for several reasons. The first reason is cost. I will come out of college only $7,000 in the red instead of a minimum of $20,000. Paying back the principle + interest on $7K takes much less time than $20K. Secondly, I still will have to take the same CPA exam as everyone else. Much like ratings, it's having the certification that counts. Finally, I truly believe that the effort you put into anything will equal what you get out of it. No matter where you go, try your hardest to succeed and you can never let yourself down.

Best wishes to all; safe flying!
"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive."
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:03 am



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 27):
but somehow you think that I know nothing, and have no "real world" experience

So pray tell what is your experience. Prove me wrong.

I have 8 years in the Airline industry through some very turbulent times which has helped forge the opinions I am expressing on here. These opinions have been seconded by many other experienced airline veterans in this thread. I am not saying anything unreasonable or unsupported by the facts.

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 27):
Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 21):
They got out in the real world and realized out on the line no one cared if they went to Riddle vs. some other route

Why do people always bring this up, its not like Riddle/UND grads go around telling every capt. they fly with, hey I went to so and so. I didnt go to Embry Riddle so I could tell everyone I graduated from here, I went here so I could become a better pilot and be more prepared for when I do graduate.

You are acting like I just made this up or something. I am only passing on what had been told to me time and time again by Riddle GRADS. The real world statement I made was a direct quote from one of my Riddle grad roomates.

It is admirable you want to be a better pilot. Your statement though reflects one of the reasons why the Riddle sterotype exists. You are suggesting that graduating from Riddle means you will be a better pilot than those who chose another route.

Riddle is a great school. You will get a great education there.

However, there are many other ways to get into the same FO seat which have their merits too.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
ThePinnacleKid
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:47 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:05 am



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 27):


Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 21):
They got out in the real world and realized out on the line no one cared if they went to Riddle vs. some other route

Why do people always bring this up, its not like Riddle/UND grads go around telling every capt. they fly with, hey I went to so and so. I didnt go to Embry Riddle so I could tell everyone I graduated from here, I went here so I could become a better pilot and be more prepared for when I do graduate.

You have said you are at Riddle.. that implies you do not currently fly for an airline... I then therefor must think that you do not have inside knowledge what conversations do get discussed on the flight deck or what people tend to bring up. If multiple current airline pilots are discussing the issue of pilots boasting about where they went to school.. there is a reason behind it. It is because we've heard it all before. (btw it is both captain and f/o who say where they went... I can't tell you how many times I've been told where someone went... and I'm certainly not a captain yet)

There are good and bad people from EVERY school/method of study... Strive to not be one of those guys that makes other pilots "No Fly" list. Like others have said, admirable you want to be the best pilot you can be... but I guarantee that Riddle grads don't fly any better than non-riddle grads. There are amazing pilots from EVERY walk of life and learning environment... and there are some REALLY horrible pilots I've flown with that have attended Riddle, UND, ATP, DCAcad, PanAm, American Flyers, etc... Aviation is equal opportunity when it comes to skills, it matters very little with the organizations name attached to the instruction and boils down more to the instructor (as a person) that is doing the teaching. One day, if you are persistent, dedicated, and lucky enough, will be in our shoes and flying for an airline.. hopefully you will realize the value of your education, and place value in the education of your peers, not belittle them or look down upon them. They are your peers, doing the same job you do, and are equally qualified to be there. Be Humble. I can't say it enough, Be a Professional. EVERY sense of the word!
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
alaska737
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:57 am



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 30):
You are suggesting that graduating from Riddle means you will be a better pilot than those who chose another route

I got my private at a local flight school in Oregon, then I went to Riddle and found out how far behind the curve I was (more oral knowledge than flying skill). I stepped it up and I am a better pilot. Obviously I cant go to every flight school in the world, but from what I have heard and what I have experenced, I can safely say that if you go to a ERAU/UND/WMU type school you will come out as a more complete pilot, with good decision making skills, as opposed to a local flight school. Cant speak for the ATP/Pan Am/Oxford type but from what I have heard, while you do move through fast, the decision making abilites are lower, you wont have enough hours, and seriously, who wants to wear the full pilots uniform when your flying a 172 or seminole. And one more point, while you may only be in the school for a few months, your still going to have to go to college for four years, so why not just kill two birds with one stone.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 30):
So pray tell what is your experience. Prove me wrong

I dont feel like I need to prove myself to anyone, but I will say that I have good friendships with a number of pilots (civil, military coorprate), managments and executive type people, as well as one CEO. All of whom have helped me reach the decison to go to embry riddle, a few of them disagreed with the choice simply because of costs, but no one said I wouldnt get a great education. Only one had an issue with the Aeronautical Science degree, but since I am getting a minor in business it wasnt an issue. These are people who have a lot of experence in a lot of different aspects of aviation. The one thing they all said that rang true more than anything else was that there would be plenty of people who will tell you your doing the wrong thing, but if your learning, flying, and most of all, having fun then your doing the right thing.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3352
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:57 am



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 32):
I can safely say that if you go to a ERAU/UND/WMU type school you will come out as a more complete pilot, with good decision making skills, as opposed to a local flight school.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. In the short time I've been at ERAU, I've found that they basically tell me if I can or can't fly, based on the weather. I can't decide to go out in dicey weather, and learn first hand what it is like. Secondly, we are basically told how much fuel to put in the aircraft. What do we learn about fuel management, when every time we go out for a local 1 hour flight, and carry a tremendous amount of dead weight. That may sound that I'm not advocating the safety of extra fuel, but really, if its a CAVU day, what is 4 gallons of fuel going to make a difference?

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
alaska737
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:42 am



Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 33):
I wouldn't be so sure about that. In the short time I've been at ERAU, I've found that they basically tell me if I can or can't fly, based on the weather. I can't decide to go out in dicey weather, and learn first hand what it is like. Secondly, we are basically told how much fuel to put in the aircraft. What do we learn about fuel management

Well I dont know if your in DAB or PRC but I know DAB has some special rules they have to follow that PRC doesnt really have to worry about, probably due to the ocean, worse weather and the increased traffic. But I have found that instructors will let you fly in somewhat questionable weather. I think the main point is that they dont want you to do anything unsafe or anything that will waste your money. as an example, I was supposed to go on an XC flight to Las Vegas. the weather was looking questionable. I told my CFI that I felt comfortable going but he reminded me that if we got to Vegas and the weather got worse we would have to overnight and it would be at my cost. another example would be a pre-solo student who is working on landings, would it really help him/her to go up in 20 kt gusts? I think that is where the instructors decision comes in. As for the fuel, a lot of it is insurance, I mean Embry-Riddle doesnt own the planes and what good does it do you to fly with low tanks then be stressed for fuel. I mean when your engine quits out in the practice area, then did you learn about fuel managment?
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12576
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:40 pm

My lord...

Suggest that your daughter's friend gets a non-flying degree....if for no other reason than to avoid arguments like this one!  duck 

He or she will very likely get a decent education no matter where s/he chooses to go. The quality of your college education is very dependent on what you make of it - if you want to get a good education, and you invest yourself in it, you probably will get a good education no matter where you go.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:24 am



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 34):
another example would be a pre-solo student who is working on landings, would it really help him/her to go up in 20 kt gusts?

YES. At least do it once. It would give them an appreciation for what the wind will do. A problem with many at ERAU is that they're used to flying on calm wind days and don't know what to do when the wind picks up above 15kts.

It's one thing to talk about how to fly an approach in a crosswind. It's quite another to actually do it.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2844
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:33 am



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 34):
another example would be a pre-solo student who is working on landings, would it really help him/her to go up in 20 kt gusts?

With an instructor, yes. I tried to make sure I did this with my students for a couple reasons. First, to make them aware of what they were capable of, and second to make them aware of what they aren't capable of.

While weather is predictable, to a degree they dont' always get it right. My first student to do a solo x-c had to divert because of unforcasted thunderstorms. When I went to meet him and review his planning later in the day for another signoff (since he didn't have one for that route) he told me two things stuck out in his mind. First, I practiced a few diversions with him, and second he rode in the back during a flight with one of my instrument students on a MVFR day. Because of these experiences he made a very wise choice.
DMI
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3352
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:10 am



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 34):
another example would be a pre-solo student who is working on landings, would it really help him/her to go up in 20 kt gusts?

Yup, it does. Nothing like going up with an instructor, and him saying he couldn't handle it, and it was time to call it a day. But, winds were 35 gusting 40, so it was probably crazy in the first place. Nothing like learning from experience.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
alaska737
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:34 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
A problem with many at ERAU is that they're used to flying on calm wind days and don't know what to do when the wind picks up above 15kts

Maybe in DAB, we never get calm days in PRC.

As for everyone saying it does PRE-solo students good to land in 20 or 25 I disagree. I see a lot of pre-solos who cant land worth crap in any conditions. And just FYI the number one reason students fail their pre-solo checkrides is landings. When students do actually solo the flight supervisor wont let them fly if the winds are more than about 10 knots so I respectfully disagree, pre-solo students gain nothing from flying in strong winds....about the time they're ready for their checkride, sure send 'em up in gusting 40, but when they're first learning the I think it will just frustrate them.
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2627
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:26 am



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 39):
When students do actually solo the flight supervisor wont let them fly if the winds are more than about 10 knots so I respectfully disagree, pre-solo students gain nothing from flying in strong winds.

When you have students of your own, you will realize how incorrect this statement is. Weather forecasts are never 100% accurate. Everything might look great when your student departs on a solo, but then the winds pick up. I had students launch with winds forecasted to not exceed 8 kts, only to find the wind gusting over 20 when they arrived back at DAB from a 2 hour cross-country. I once did an initial solo for a student at New Smyrna Beach on a beautiful clear day, and from the control tower watched the winds go from 6 kts to 18 gusting 24 in the time it took her to do 3 traffic patterns. I think it's a great idea to take pre-solo students into 15 kt crosswinds and make sure they can get down safely if the weather gets worse than predicted.

Further, the earlier you can introduce crosswind landing techniques, the more likely your student is to practice good crosswind technique. It's the law of primacy. What you learn first tends to stick in your mind. You don't want students to get into the thought that crosswind landings only happen every once in a while, and that they can slack off on it if the winds aren't too strong. As soon as they have figured out how to land on the correct runway and on the correct tires without causing damage, it's time to find some crosswinds.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:22 am



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 39):
When students do actually solo the flight supervisor wont let them fly if the winds are more than about 10 knots so I respectfully disagree, pre-solo students gain nothing from flying in strong winds....

If my student has handled 15 knot winds, I feel pretty comfortable with them handling 10. If they've only handled 10, then I'm not as confident. One shouldn't train to what the flight supervisor will let them do solo - train them beyond that.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:11 am



Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 38):
Yup, it does.

I agree there is a lot that can be learned. As mentioned by several of the flight instructors here. As a student I found it very beneficial to prod my comfort zone safely with my instructor in the seat next to me. I learned to handle less than ideal wind conditions. It was a good thing too my check ride ended up being on a really windy day. As mentioned above it also came in handy on my solo cross country trips when I encountered unexpected weather conditions. On my return trip one time there were moderate turbulence warnings along much of my planned route. I called my flight instructor and we discussed options. He told me he was confident of my judgement and knew I could handle it. Though he said it would test the boundaries of my comfort level he told me I would be safe. He also told me he trusted that I would have the judgement to divert if necessary. He knew this because together we had flown in less than ideal conditions and he learned what kind of pilot I was under stress.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3352
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:27 pm

Ok, so maybe very windy conditons are better for post solo students. However, I think there is something to be learned by a student, when they CFI says, "ok man, we need to call it a day. These are too much for me to handle today." That was an eye opener for me. Its just some of the policies I've seen here at Riddle are much more restrictive than at part 61 and even other part 141 schools. Plus, some of the downsides of a Part 141/142 school include some inflexability. If your lesson for the day is takeoff/landing, and its 15 gusting 20, as a student pilot, you probably don't get to go. However, in a part 61 enviroment (from my experience), you may go out and do airwork (Stalls, Slowflight and steep turns), if that needs done.

However, back to the original question. no one here has the magic answer for the situation asked. Find a school, visit it. Then if its "the one" go there. If after a year, you don't like it, you can always transfer. You may loose some time, but its better than going somewhere you have no intrest in being in for another three or more years.
From my cold, dead hands
 
acNDTTech
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:28 pm



Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 39):
I see a lot of pre-solos who cant land worth crap in any conditions. And just FYI the number one reason students fail their pre-solo checkrides is landings.

How long does it take the avg. student to learn landings? My 2nd hr. with an instructor we finished with a few touch-n-go's. The first couple were of the crash-n-dash variety, but each time around the patch they got better. Hr. 5 was all touch-n-go's. Hr. 6 I soloed. I learned to fly at the FBO I was working at and my instructor was the chief pilot for a huge 135 operator. Just for kicks, I'll throw this in. C-172 wet......$35.00/hr. Instructor......$10.00/hr. or lunch, his choice. This was back in 1987.
 
alaska737
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:06 am



Quoting AcNDTTech (Reply 44):
How long does it take the avg. student to learn landings?

Well at riddle you solo around 20 hours...but some of my friends havent done one landing after 5 or 6 flights. This is one of the big reasons, as I have stressed before, I suggest to get your private before comming to Riddle.

Another point that I failed to mention. Your first one or two solos are 3 landings in the pattern. As I said that comes at at around 20 hours, I dont think you solo again until after you do some XC's. Again Im not positive on this because I didnt go through this course.
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2627
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: Aviation Colleges

Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:35 am



Quoting AcNDTTech (Reply 44):
How long does it take the avg. student to learn landings? My 2nd hr. with an instructor we finished with a few touch-n-go's. The first couple were of the crash-n-dash variety, but each time around the patch they got better. Hr. 5 was all touch-n-go's. Hr. 6 I soloed.

It all depends on the student. I had some students take 15-20 hours more than others for it all to come together. Under the ERAU program, 20 hrs sounds about right for most students. The program is structured and approved by the FAA and must have the minimum hours met for each stage. The previous lessons must be completed before the solo.

6 hours is quite fast. I never had a primary student I would have felt comfortable letting solo at 6 hours. Radio procedures, handling unexpected runway changes, engine failures in the pattern, crosswind technique, stall avoidance and recovery, recovery from a bounced landing to avoid porpoising. It's a lot to get figured out in 6 hours.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3352
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:05 am

I soloed in 12.8 hours. However, where I was, it was much much easier for the student pilot. Nothing like learning to fly in uncontrolled Echo airspace. However, I know that if I had done my initial at Riddle, I wouldn't have been anywhere near 12.8. Its a much more complex airspace, and just everything is crazier and faster here. Plus, after my first two solos, I had the pleasure of going and scaring the heck out of myself with a local, maneuver practice solo. Only stiuplation was no power on stalls. However, I went happy with the power off, and well, when she broke a little harder than I was anticipating, and dropped a wing, that was the end of the day.

But still, that pre-solo stage shouldn't be focused on, how many more hours. It should be, when am I safe to go fly the plane myself, not when do I have enough hours, IMO.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
acNDTTech
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:06 am

Back in the day, my instructor "cut me loose for 1 trip around the patch." I enjoyed it so much, that I did 3. When I finally got in, he asked if I was having fun. He new the answer by to smile on my face. After that, he told me that I wasn't going to fly with him again until I had 5 hrs. of solo - Touch-nGo's ONLY. The endorsement was for pattern only, ceiling 3500, visibility 10, and wind<15. Then we did a few hrs. in the practice area, and cleaned up some BAD techniques that I taught myself doing t-n-g's, and endorsed me for the practice area with the same limitations. See ya again in 5 hrs. for XC's. Long story short, could've taken my checkride at 40 hrs., but asked if I could do another XC. He wanted to see my paperwork.....off I went. 43hrs. I had my Private.

Those days were so much fun. I had the time of my life. I was doing a long XC (LUK-HKS) when I realized that it wasn't for me (flying for a living, that is). I still love to fly myself places, but I get <100 hrs./year and most years 50hrs. or less. My hats off to all you guys and girls for being able to put up with those long trips (4+hr.legs).....I guess my touch of ADD got the best of me.
 
acNDTTech
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: Aviation Colleges

Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:17 am

One thing that I forgot to mention......those 43 hrs. are a little misleading. Since I worked at an FBO, I always had people asking me if I wanted to go for rides with them. They would always let me do some flying, teach me a maneuver, about the power curve, etc. The 43 hrs. was LOGGED, but I bet I had at least that unlogged.

How this relates to aviation colleges, if any young man or lady has the opportunity to work at an FBO and get free or cheap time, I would recommend that. Get at the very minimum a private.....maybe even an instrument and/or commercial (I would want the inst. prior to the comm. due to some of the FAR's). Most schools that have aviation related courses will then give you credit for those ratings. I got out of a physics of flight and meterology (3 credit hrs. each) class just because I had my private.

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