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mariodgf
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757 Vs. 757W: Flying Differences

Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:26 am

With the growing boom for wingleted aircraft, I've been curious as to how the flying charateristics of each plane can vary if they get winglets installed. But I want to take the 757 as the specific example. The 757 has always been famous for it's incredible take-offs, have any difference been felt by anyone in take-offs when the plane has winglets? Do winglets change in any ways how this plane flies?
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LAXintl
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RE: 757 Vs. 757W: Flying Differences

Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:03 am

Winglets provide better field performance and flight level capability.

Biggest downside with winglets are in cross wind conditions when the winglets increase the aircraft profile. I've seen some operators reduce crosswind capability from 30 to 25kts as result.
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boeing767mech
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RE: 757 Vs. 757W: Flying Differences

Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:11 am

I have talked to pilots getting off 757W flights. They say the airplane handles differnet, and seems heavier in turns. They don't like them yet. But since almost all of our airplanes our done, there's not much they can do about it now. But I have hear they do like the climb rate now. I guess it is like everything else new, just need to get used to it.

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Max Q
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RE: 757 Vs. 757W: Flying Differences

Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:09 am

Well, I flew the 75 for a many years without and now with winglets and I can't say I detect any difference, perhap's it's just too subtle for me !
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calpilot
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RE: 757 Vs. 757W: Flying Differences

Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:54 pm

I've got 3000 hours in the airplane, the only difference I feel is the last 20 feet in pre flare, and flare. It seems a little harder to keep the nose down, and there is a little more float.
 
AAH732UAL
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RE: 757 Vs. 757W: Flying Differences

Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:27 pm

Different Cost Index's as well.
UA says 10 for optimum for non-winglet 757s and 0 for winglets. So judging by that, it looks like the winglets help the plane go a bit faster at CRZ.
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MD-90
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RE: 757 Vs. 757W: Flying Differences

Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:34 am



Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 2):
I have talked to pilots getting off 757W flights. They say the airplane handles differnet, and seems heavier in turns. They don't like them yet.

Pilatus reduced the size of winglets on the PC-12 due to them making the aircraft overly stable in roll and pilots saying that the 757 "seems heavier in turns" makes sense to me.

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mariodgf
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RE: 757 Vs. 757W: Flying Differences

Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:16 am

Yeah sadly the amount of money saved by using winglets completely justifies the fact of having now a heavier-in-turns airplane!

From my personal experience, I felt that the climb rate in the 757W was better to a non-wingleted 757, but maybe that's just psychological. But anyways, the climb rate of the 757 will always stay impressive!
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HAWK21M
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RE: 757 Vs. 757W: Flying Differences

Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:52 am



Quoting Mariodgf (Reply 7):
the climb rate of the 757 will always stay impressive!

The B757 has been one of the ,in my opinion overpowered machine  Smile
Watching one get airborne,looks fantastic.
We have very few B757s out here,non with winglets as the cruise time does not warrant it.But undoubtly a fantastic machine.
regds
MEL
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typhaerion
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RE: 757 Vs. 757W: Flying Differences

Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:39 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
The B757 has been one of the ,in my opinion overpowered machine

Especially the 752. When empty that thing is a rocket. But it is overpowered in a good, not really excessive way. I might have just used the phrase "one of the most powerful aircraft out there". Rated of course. I am sure there are planes that produce more power, but per lb, I bet the 757 is close. Not that you can really calculate that number.
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speedracer1407
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RE: 757 Vs. 757W: Flying Differences

Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:38 am



Quoting Typhaerion (Reply 9):
course. I am sure there are planes that produce more power, but per lb, I bet the 757 is close. Not that you can really calculate that number.

Hmm, sounds like thrust to weight ratio, which is about as easy to calculate as it gets.
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HAWK21M
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RE: 757 Vs. 757W: Flying Differences

Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:41 am



Quoting Typhaerion (Reply 9):
But it is overpowered in a good

Best example practically is watching a B752 go-around.
From a Mx access point of view it may be difficult to reach unlike the lower & easy access B737.But still in my opinion a very sucessfull aircraft,at time I wish the production line had not shut down.

regds
MEL
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typhaerion
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RE: 757 Vs. 757W: Flying Differences

Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:10 pm



Quoting Speedracer1407 (Reply 10):
Hmm, sounds like thrust to weight ratio, which is about as easy to calculate as it gets.

Yeah, I guess it is. I am just wondering if that number can accurately capture the visual. I guess it might, but I dont have the time to calculate averages for display. One care to have a whack at it? I would love to see a comparate of the T/W numbers for the common commercial aircraft.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):
I wish the production line had not shut down.

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lightsaber
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RE: 757 Vs. 757W: Flying Differences

Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:03 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
The B757 has been one of the ,in my opinion overpowered machine

What is wrong with that?  Wink

There are three ways to achieve excellent short field performance:
1. Reduced effective wing loading (winglets reduce the effective wing loading if done right)
2. More thrust!
3. Better 'wing enhancements' during takeoff/landing (flaps)

Newer aircraft will be built out of lighter composites and thus the cost to provide more wing area goes down.  hyper  Flap design has also improved to provide more lift with less drag.

So we'll see a lower power/weight in many future designs.  Sad

Question to 757 pilots, do you detect more 'Dutch roll" with winglets? (Its a known artifact, e.g., with the E135 it was initially an issue.)

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HAWK21M
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RE: 757 Vs. 757W: Flying Differences

Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:47 am



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 13):
What is wrong with that?

What makes you think I have a problem with that {wink]

On the topic....Are there any freighters that have followed the B752PCF/PF concept of a single door with the toilet in the flight deck.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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