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Acey
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ORD Runway Ops

Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:13 pm

I'm listening to ORD's LiveATC tower feed, and I'm confused as to what runways this airport uses. I hear landers on 27R and 27L, and takeoffs on 28. But it sounds like there are also landers on 28. Sounds pretty unbalanced, and I would think this is the departure rush. Is 28 the only departure runway?
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IAHFLYR
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:15 pm

P3Orion will be on here I would guess soon, I'll have him answer that as he works ORD Twr.
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Mir
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:35 pm



Quoting Acey (Thread starter):
I'm confused as to what runways this airport uses.

I think most everybody is, even the pilots who fly out of there.  Wink

If they're landing to the west (27s and 28s), then they're probably using 22L for departures as well, and possibly also 32L (T10 intersection).

Pretty much just like the normal old west configuration (Plan Wierd, I think it was called), except that with the addition of 27R, they can land parallel and not have to worry about LAHSO on 22R and 27L. If that makes any sense.  confused 

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Acey
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:54 pm

Makes sense. Maybe it's because of the wind... it's been from about 150-190 at anywhere from 10 to gusts of 22. Haven't heard 22L at all though, seems to be constant arrivals on the two north runway 27L and 27R, and then departures/arrivals on 28. Interesting.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
P3Orion
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:55 pm

Today, ORD was on the configuration known as "West Flow IFR." Meaning Arrivals to RWY 27L/27R and RWY28. Departures off RWY22L and RWY28. 27L/27R are the favored arrival RWYs, the TRACON is supposed to give us 15 MIT (miles-in-trail) to RWY28 to accomodate departures. Mandatory RWY assignments for departures are as follows: RWY22L-MOBLE, RWY28-DUFEE/EBAKE/PETTY/BAE. Typically, PLL/IOW/MZV will be at RWY28. ACITO/BACEN/CMSKY/DENTT/EARND will usually be at RWY22L. This configuration is used when the ceiling/vsby is less than 2500/5 (reason is to protect for missed approaches off of the 27's). When the ceiling and visibilty are better than 2500 and 5 we will be on "West Flow." Same arrival RWYs (the 15 MIT restriction to RWY28 goes away), 22L and [email protected] are the departure RWYs.
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vikkyvik
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:55 pm

Well, a lot of info about runway configs can be found here:

http://www.bigairport.com/bigair_content.php

(go to "pilot info")

Although it would seem to be out of date, not having the new east-west parallel on there.

EDIT to ask a question:

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 4):
the TRACON is supposed to give us 15 MIT (miles-in-trail) to RWY28 to accomodate departures.

I assume MIT would mean the distance between arrivals. Is that correct? If so, how many departures can you typically fit in with 15 MIT?

Thanks.

[Edited 2009-01-12 16:04:12]
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Acey
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:02 am

Wow, P3Orion, that was a very informative post. Thanks much! It made sense that there would be departures off 22L as well... I just didn't hear any on the frequency and I assumed it would be the same controller for 28 and 22L.

[Edited 2009-01-12 16:09:42]
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P3Orion
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:07 am



Quoting Acey (Reply 6):
Wow, P3Orion, that was a very informative post. Thanks much!

You're welcome. I didn't want to get too detailed and talk about swing fixes and RWY balance but you have a general idea. I must say, I do miss Plan Weird.
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IAHFLYR
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:14 am



Quoting Acey (Reply 6):
Wow, P3Orion, that was a very informative post.

I told you the "MAN" would have your answers.

Never let it be said the folks in the south can't help!!!!!  duck 
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P3Orion
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:20 am

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 5):
assume MIT would mean the distance between arrivals. Is that correct? If so, how many departures can you typically fit in with 15 MIT?

If the Outbound Ground Controller gives a good split, such as: EBAKE, PLL, BAE, PLL. DUFEE, MZV, PLL, MZV, PETTY; and there are no heavies or 75's, four or five maybe six if you prep the pilots.

[Edited 2009-01-12 16:24:24]
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Acey
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:22 am

Is 27R/9L only going to be a IFR runway or is it used in good weather as well? Do heavies land on it or are they instead assigned to 28 or 27L?
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P3Orion
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:27 am



Quoting Acey (Reply 10):
Is 27R/9L only going to be a IFR runway or is it used in good weather as well? Do heavies land on it or are they instead assigned to 28 or 27L?

It's used when we are on West Flow, regardless of the wx. It is not used on any other configuration. And yes, heavies do land on it.
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Acey
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:31 am

Yeah I remember last week at some point you were using 10, 9R, 4L, I think 4R as well... and then there were departures off 32R... yeah I fell behind.
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AAH732UAL
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:44 am

It was cool as it was the first time I had heard ORD tower say stay with me on every departure I heard and also give two headings before hand off. It may not be pretty but its very effective.
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P3Orion
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:54 am

Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 13):
It was cool as it was the first time I had heard ORD tower say stay with me on every departure I heard and also give two headings before hand off. It may not be pretty but its very effective.

If your talking about departing 28, the two headings are to protect the miss off of 27L when the wx is severely IFR. The initial "Turn left heading 240" is to protect, leaving 2.5 will turn you right to a heading of 040 (EBAKE/DUFEE) or 320 (PETTY/BAE) or sometimes back to a 270 (PLL/IOW/MZV).

[Edited 2009-01-12 17:57:43]
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Acey
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:27 am

I noticed that as well... several pilots ask, "to departure yet?" prior to getting that second heading. Would RNAV departures work here, like DFW or ATL?
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P3Orion
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:38 am



Quoting Acey (Reply 15):
Would RNAV departures work here, like DFW or ATL?

I don't think so. With over ten different configurations, I feel vectors work best.
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IAHFLYR
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:54 am



Quoting Acey (Reply 15):
Would RNAV departures work here, like DFW or ATL?

NO. When you have an airport with different runways that either cross or have crossing extended centerlines, unlike DFW, ATL, LAX, and a few others who are basically all parallel the vector toward the departure gates work much more efficiently.

Now if we ever see NextGen (not in my career) and you can use RF legs to turn EVERY departure on the exact same flight track to the departure path that would be a different animal however, industry nor the FAA is not close to being ready to do that type of leg in most cases.
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AAH732UAL
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:45 pm



Quoting P3Orion (Reply 16):
I don't think so. With over ten different configurations, I feel vectors work best.

Has there ever been anything other then the O'Hare DP?
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Tiger119
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:21 am



Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 17):
NO. When you have an airport with different runways that either cross or have crossing extended centerlines, unlike DFW, ATL, LAX, and a few others who are basically all parallel the vector toward the departure gates work much more efficiently.

- Are the long term plans for ORD to have six paralleling runways? All 272.8/092.8 degrees? If so, what time frame is Chicago shooting for? I have wondered for quite a while, thanks,

David
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vikkyvik
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:41 am



Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 19):
- Are the long term plans for ORD to have six paralleling runways? All 272.8/092.8 degrees? If so, what time frame is Chicago shooting for? I have wondered for quite a while, thanks,

From the "Introduction" section of:

http://www.ohare.com/MasterPlan/

"The physical characteristics of the plan include the reconfiguration of the airfield from sets of parallel runways in three main directional orientations (northeast/southwest, east/west, and northwest/southeast) to six parallel runways in the east/west direction and two runways in the northeast/southwest direction. This reconfiguration involves the construction of one new runway, the relocation of three existing runways, and the extension of two existing runways, while maintaining the use of two existing unmodified runways."

You can see the steps in the 3 "Implementation" sections.
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Manta
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:49 pm

Just a quick question - is rwy 22L ever used for arrivals anymore or with the addition of 27R, have 22L arrivals pretty much ended?

Just curious as I've lived right under the 22L approach path about 2 miles from ORD and can remember the daily approaches starting around 5pm or if it was really windy.

Thanks!
 
P3Orion
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RE: ORD Runway Ops

Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:05 pm



Quoting Manta (Reply 21):
Just a quick question - is rwy 22L ever used for arrivals anymore or with the addition of 27R, have 22L arrivals pretty much ended?

We land on RWY 22L when we are on Plan B. Plan B consists of Arrivals to 22R, 14R and 22L (22L is the "trip" rwy meaning when demand warrants it will be used), Departures go to 22L and RWY 28.
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