Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
FlyingDove
Topic Author
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:31 pm

Etops Label In Landing Gear Area?

Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:48 am

Good day everyone,

I was wondering why many planes have the ETOPS label on the area near their landing gear. Who is supposed to use this information, and how?

Thanks for any information!

[Edited 2009-06-03 19:49:09]
 
OffshoreAir
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 4:56 pm

RE: Etops Label In Landing Gear Area?

Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:47 am

I've seen it on a number of Delta birds. I've always deemed it as more of a badge of courage. Like Delta showing the public they have aircraft that are rated to the strict standards that ETOPS required.
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3705
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: Etops Label In Landing Gear Area?

Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:50 am

We have B763 that are ETOPS, and some that are not. It is a reminder that I am going to work on an ETOPS aircraft, where the procedures are different.
 
Transpac787
Posts: 1421
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:47 pm

RE: Etops Label In Landing Gear Area?

Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:37 am

United uses the ETOPS labels also.

On the 757 fleet, I think only 13 of their 97 birds are ETOPS rated, and they carry the label near the nose gear doors.

The current 767-300 fleet is 100% ETOPS rated, 35 of 35 birds. However, just a few years ago when UA still had the 767-200's, only a few of those were ETOPS rated as they were all the 767-200A models - the rest were domestic only. So, it was important to differentiate between those with and without ETOPS, at the time.

The 777 fleet is also 100% ETOPS, both 772A and 772ER. So I'm not sure why they label all these planes with ETOPS. Maybe just to keep a common practice, I would assume.
 
dispatchguy
Posts: 639
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:08 am

RE: Etops Label In Landing Gear Area?

Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:31 pm



Quoting OffshoreAir (Reply 1):
I've seen it on a number of Delta birds. I've always deemed it as more of a badge of courage. Like Delta showing the public they have aircraft that are rated to the strict standards that ETOPS required.

One reason for the ETOPS label is to, like another poster stated, is to remind all who will work on her (like MX) that the aircraft is an ETOPS aircraft, and that specific policies and restrictions apply.

For example, if the same mech services both engine oils, the aircraft is removed from ETOPS operatons. So if an ETOPS bird is in your station and the crew writes up the engine oils and that they need a service, and the same mech does both - the aircraft can NOT depart on an ETOPS operation until 2 mechs verify that the engine oils were done correctly. The UNQ mechanic will sign it off as engine oils serviced to clear the logbook item, but the aircraft can not operate a subsequent ETOPS operation.

Usually, this doesnt cause a problem. I see notices that ship XXX has been removed from ETOPS operations daily. If its operating a domestic operation, its not that big of a deal. However, before any ETOPS departure, an ETOPS predeparture check is performed, by 2 or more ETOPS qual mechanics, and the ETOPS PDC will clear any of those ETOPS UNQ MECH items, and return the aircraft to ETOPS status.

If an ETOPS aircraft, while operating an ETOPS operation, diverts somewhere, and the reason was a mechanical reason, an ETOPS PDC will need to be performed so that the aircraft can continue ETOPS. However, if a set of ETOPS Mechs arent available where the aircraft diverted, and the decision is made to continue, it must operate under non-ETOPS (the old 60 minute rule), until a full ETOPS PDC can be accomplished. However, if the aircraft diverted for a non-mech reason, say an unruly passenger, or a medical, and there are no mechnical issues, the aircraft may continue ETOPS.

It's not a badge of courage, for my guess is that less than 1% of the pax in any gate house even knows what it means - its a reminder that special rules apply to working on this aircraft.
 
OffshoreAir
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 4:56 pm

RE: Etops Label In Landing Gear Area?

Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:43 pm



Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 4):
It's not a badge of courage, for my guess is that less than 1% of the pax in any gate house even knows what it means - its a reminder that special rules apply to working on this aircraft.

Thanks for the clarification. I always knew what it meant, but you are right, most passengers have no idea what ETOPS means.
 
d-aiqc
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 10:15 pm

RE: Etops Label In Landing Gear Area?

Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:22 pm

Is there a source where I can see all relevant ETOPS requriements?

thx
 
airbuske
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:36 am

RE: Etops Label In Landing Gear Area?

Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:02 pm



Quoting D-aiqc (Reply 6):
Is there a source where I can see all relevant ETOPS requriements?

Go to the following webpage and download the "Getting to grips with ETOPS" document.

http://www.smartcockpit.com/flightops

It gives a fair amount of insight on what the program is about, why it is there and what the airframe manufacturer and operator must do in order to get/keep ETOPS.
 
DescendVia
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:26 am

RE: Etops Label In Landing Gear Area?

Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:22 am

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 3):
and they carry the label near the nose gear doors



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 3):
So I'm not sure why they label all these planes

All ETOPS planes (757, 767, and 777) have the ETOPS stickers on the sides right above the nose numbers. Nothing is on the gear doors itself other then the red lines to make were the doors are at. They old do have 767-322 or 747-444 across the front of the nose gear doors but that is about it.

I personally have only seen CO planes have the ETOPS stickers on the gear doors.

One thing that is note worthy is that the 777-200A is only rated to 180 while the -200B can go up to 207 when on the PACOTS.

[Edited 2009-06-09 18:28:14]
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 8383
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Etops Label In Landing Gear Area?

Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:30 am



Quoting DescendVia (Reply 8):
All ETOPS planes (757, 767, and 777) have the ETOPS stickers on the sides right above the nose numbers.

Ah, absolutes in aviation...never use them.

Our B767 aircraft do not have ETOPS stenciled anywhere on the airframe. I imagine that carriers that have a mixed fleet (i.e. non-ETOPS B767 & ETOPS B767) use the stencil to clearly identify an ETOPS aircraft to its maintenance (and other interested) folks. And then again, the carrier may want to stencil it on the nose regardless of the status of its fleet.
 
DescendVia
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:26 am

RE: Etops Label In Landing Gear Area?

Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:44 am

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 9):
Ah, absolutes in aviation...never use them.

That was a reference to United.........

Quoting DescendVia (Reply 8):
They old do have

Should read: "They all have"

[Edited 2009-06-09 19:12:19]
 
FlyingColours
Posts: 2360
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:13 am

RE: Etops Label In Landing Gear Area?

Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:29 pm

Having ETOPS on the nose gear doors also helps us cabin crew out as some specific aircraft that are ETOPS certified have additional equipment in the cabin which we need to check. This was the case at Air 2000 on the 757 fleet, I personally prefered working on those aircraft, especially when on longer over water sectors.

My last airline, XL had ETOPS labels on the nosegear doors on some 737-800s, which at first I thought was odd but apparently those were indeed certified providing they were carrying the additional life rafts in the cabin (Which only happened once on my flight), so they were not technically ETOPS on those occasions.

All of the 767s though (G-BOPB 762 & G-VKNG/NI 763) were Etops 180.

Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 4):
For example, if the same mech services both engine oils, the aircraft is removed from ETOPS operatons.

Wow I never knew that, I'm glad to be back online again and learning new things on the tech/ops board  Smile

Phil
FlyingColours
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3705
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: Etops Label In Landing Gear Area?

Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:14 pm



Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 11):
Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 4):
For example, if the same mech services both engine oils, the aircraft is removed from ETOPS operatons.

Wow I never knew that, I'm glad to be back online again and learning new things on the tech/ops boar

Note that is for his airline. It is not universal.
We have an unlicensed mech to service both engines, then I check the caps are secure. This solves the ETOPS requirement, with only one licensed engineer on duty (which is not unusual on a small line station.)

In fact we were unable to bid for the Continental contract here, because they required two licensed engineers, but would not pay for it!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kiwiandrew and 13 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos