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TimePilot
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Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:07 am

I've often wondered this while playing MSFS. It's easy for me to duck out onto the balcony, but where did crews smoke, if they could?

I'm wondering particularly from the Ford Tri-Motor (early passenger service) era up until the 1960s or 70s. I'm guessing nowadays that smoking is completely prohibited on flights. Where did they used to go then? Was smoking ever allowed in cockpits? What about current cargo flights?
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:52 am



Quoting TimePilot (Thread starter):
but where did crews smoke, if they could?

Well, at NW, back during the smoking years, it was usually the back of the plane becuz that is where the smoking section was. When I started, Smoking was only to Japan out of DTW, JFK, MSP, SEA and LAX and was short-lived. Europe had already been banned smoking, and US-Asia was on the cusp

Quoting TimePilot (Thread starter):
Was smoking ever allowed in cockpits?

Yes, pilots often smoked in the flight deck, and in some countries, they still do.

Quoting TimePilot (Thread starter):
What about current cargo flights?

Well, it's the Vegas rule in the freight community as they often do things that they could never do on a revenue passenger flight, but I would imagine since freighters often carry hazmat, that smoking would be a high risk thing to do
Made from jets!
 
ThirtyEcho
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:26 am

I must be getting old. In the 60s the crew did like everyone else, they smoked wherever they damn well pleased.

The flight crew smoked in the cockpit, the FAs smoked in the galleys or the jumpseats.

The passengers smoked wherever they were seated.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:57 am



Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 2):
In the 60s the crew did like everyone else, they smoked wherever they damn well pleased.

The flight crew smoked in the cockpit, the FAs smoked in the galleys or the jumpseats.

The passengers smoked wherever they were seated.

Sounds positively disgusting. That's quite possibly the only upside imaginable to having missed out on the good old days.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
BAE146QT
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:00 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 3):
Sounds positively disgusting. That's quite possibly the only upside imaginable to having missed out on the good old days.

As a smoker, I must confess that I'm happy to leave my vice Earthbound. Not only is it deeply unpleasant for everyone around you, but even a smoker prefers fresh air to sitting in a stale funk.

In addition, they don't taste right to me. If you're a non-smoker, (and I suspect you are Aaron), you're probably familiar with that "dirty ashtray" smell that you get where someone has lit up. Well that's what cigarettes taste like to me at altitude.

If I'm that desperate, (and I was on a recent LGW - LAS flight) I use a Nicorette inhalator.
Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:44 pm



Quoting TimePilot (Thread starter):
I'm wondering particularly from the Ford Tri-Motor (early passenger service) era up until the 1960s or 70s. I'm guessing nowadays that smoking is completely prohibited on flights. Where did they used to go then? Was smoking ever allowed in cockpits? What about current cargo flights?

In the Tri-motor days smoking was the norm and socially acceptable. So smoking was allowed almost anywhere, unless oxygen was being used. Smoking was certainly allowed on flightdecks and ashtrays were provided for the purpose.

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 4):
In addition, they don't taste right to me. If you're a non-smoker, (and I suspect you are Aaron), you're probably familiar with that "dirty ashtray" smell that you get where someone has lit up. Well that's what cigarettes taste like to me at altitude.

I've never heard of a smoker being put off by the taste before! I didn't do much flying back when I was a smoker so I don't recall whether it tasted different or not.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
mandala499
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:12 pm



Quoting TimePilot (Thread starter):
I've often wondered this while playing MSFS. It's easy for me to duck out onto the balcony, but where did crews smoke, if they could?

Memory item checklist when entering a flightdeck is....
ASHTRAY.... LOCATED/NOT PRESENT
if NOT PRESENT, locate your substitute and retrieve.

 Smile

Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 2):
The flight crew smoked in the cockpit, the FAs smoked in the galleys or the jumpseats.

Nowadays, F/As would go to the flight deck for a smoke... in some configs you can smoke in the galley and no one would know.

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 4):
As a smoker, I must confess that I'm happy to leave my vice Earthbound. Not only is it deeply unpleasant for everyone around you, but even a smoker prefers fresh air to sitting in a stale funk.

In addition, they don't taste right to me. If you're a non-smoker, (and I suspect you are Aaron), you're probably familiar with that "dirty ashtray" smell that you get where someone has lit up. Well that's what cigarettes taste like to me at altitude.

Sentiments shared. The dirty overused ashtray smell isn't pleasant for me as a smoker.
In today's more health conscious flightdeck environment, when smoking in the flightdeck, use ashtray for ash, damped cup for the ciggie butts... and ah, do ask your non-smoking fellow pilot if he/she minds if you smoke... a lot of smoking pilots I know do these because they don't want their non-smoking colleagues to campaign for non-smoking flight decks...  Smile A little courtesy does go a long way!
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:39 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 3):
Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 2):
In the 60s the crew did like everyone else, they smoked wherever they damn well pleased.

The flight crew smoked in the cockpit, the FAs smoked in the galleys or the jumpseats.

The passengers smoked wherever they were seated.

Sounds positively disgusting. That's quite possibly the only upside imaginable to having missed out on the good old days.

I caught the end of the "smoking onboard permitted" era during my apprenticeship. I remember the brownish streak at the cabin outflow valve and the brown crust to be removed from cabin panels, insulation blankets and cabin furniture during C- and D-checks, a job usually allocated to us aprentices  yuck 
 vomit 

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
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Scooter01
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:12 pm

I remember back in '65 when the Belgian King Beaudoin and Queen Fabiola visited Norway.  old 

After the Royal entourage had deplaned and left the airport (FBU), I got to visit their plane,
a SABENA Caravelle, with my father who was the SABENA rep in Norway at the time.
The flightcrew invited us for lunch -someone had to finish off the food the Royals had not consumed.

I was really surprised seeing the FAs smoking cigars in the cabin while the plane was being serviced and re-fuelled  eyepopping  -but the food was great!

Scooter01
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474218
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:14 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
I caught the end of the "smoking onboard permitted" era during my apprenticeship. I remember the brownish streak at the cabin outflow valve and the brown crust to be removed from cabin panels, insulation blankets and cabin furniture during C- and D-checks, a job usually allocated to us aprentices

Nicotine stains were great for finding cracks in the pressure vessel. As the air/nicotine was forced through the crack it left behind the tell-tail brown stain. Worked like a poor mans NDT procedure.
 
TimePilot
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:53 pm

Thanks for the replies! : )

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 4):
... In addition, they don't taste right to me. ...

I must agree. JAL still had a smoking section a few years ago, and I remember them having a few seats open at the back of the 747s for smokers to have a quick one (NRT to ORD and NRT to JFK.) Cigarettes do taste different way up there. Plus things are dry enough already ...

I suppose in the Tri-Motor days if you didn't like the smell you could open a window or something  Wink
 
MX757
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:34 am



Quoting TimePilot (Thread starter):
What about current cargo flights?

When I worked for Capital Cargo International Airlines (more than a mouth full) the crew could smoke in the galley section of A/C during flight. It's been over 10 years since I worked for them so I don't know if that policy is still in effect.
Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:38 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 9):
Nicotine stains were great for finding cracks in the pressure vessel.

The benefits of smoking to Mx.
Currently No smoking anywhere on or near an Aircraft is permitted.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:48 am

Gawd I would love to smoke a Davidoff Special T at altitude, just to experience it. Hours with nowhere to go... Perfect time for a cigar and cognac!
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
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Scooter01
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:51 am



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 13):
Gawd I would love to smoke a Davidoff Special T at altitude, just to experience it. Hours with nowhere to go... Perfect time for a cigar and cognac

Here is a story I found in Aerofiles:

During his early air mail days, J. D. Hill used a cigar as a navigation instrument. Before he left Cleveland one day for Hadley Field, New Brunswick, with a load of mail and a pocket full of cigars, he was informed that he would have clear weather until he reached the Alleghenies, but would have to fly over clouds in crossing the mountains to the coast. So, before he started down the runway he lit a cigar, which lasted until he reached Mercer PA. There he realized his clock had quit working.

It was vital to know the time to know when to go down through the clouds. Recalling that his cigar had lasted from Cleveland to Mercer, he thought it over. 'That's 75 miles. I have about 255 miles to go. Let's see ... 75 into 255 is 3 and 30 left over. That's 30-75s ... two-fifths. If I smoke three and two-fifths cigars, I should be about over Hadley, if I'm on my course.'

Hill took four cigars from his pocket. placed three beside him and lit the fourth, then took off. When it was finished he lit another and on he went, chain-smoking over the clouds. When two-fifths of the last cigar was gone, he throttled back and went down through the clouds and there—a welcome sight not far away—was Hadley Field.
(— From a Pittsburgh newspaper 3/19/38 via Lloyd Santmeyer)

I guess the bottle of cognac could be placed on top of the instrument-panel to substitute for an inoperative artificial horizon  drunk 

Scooter01
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Pellegrine
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:55 am



Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 14):
Here is a story I found in Aerofiles:

During his early air mail days, J. D. Hill used a cigar as a navigation instrument. Before he left Cleveland one day for Hadley Field, New Brunswick, with a load of mail and a pocket full of cigars, he was informed that he would have clear weather until he reached the Alleghenies, but would have to fly over clouds in crossing the mountains to the coast. So, before he started down the runway he lit a cigar, which lasted until he reached Mercer PA. There he realized his clock had quit working.

It was vital to know the time to know when to go down through the clouds. Recalling that his cigar had lasted from Cleveland to Mercer, he thought it over. 'That's 75 miles. I have about 255 miles to go. Let's see ... 75 into 255 is 3 and 30 left over. That's 30-75s ... two-fifths. If I smoke three and two-fifths cigars, I should be about over Hadley, if I'm on my course.'

Hill took four cigars from his pocket. placed three beside him and lit the fourth, then took off. When it was finished he lit another and on he went, chain-smoking over the clouds. When two-fifths of the last cigar was gone, he throttled back and went down through the clouds and there—a welcome sight not far away—was Hadley Field. (— From a Pittsburgh newspaper 3/19/38 via Lloyd Santmeyer)

I guess the bottle of cognac could be placed on top of the instrument-panel to substitute for an inoperative artificial horizon drunk



Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 14):
During his early air mail days, J. D. Hill used a cigar as a navigation instrument. Before he left Cleveland one day for Hadley Field, New Brunswick, with a load of mail and a pocket full of cigars, he was informed that he would have clear weather until he reached the Alleghenies, but would have to fly over clouds in crossing the mountains to the coast. So, before he started down the runway he lit a cigar, which lasted until he reached Mercer PA. There he realized his clock had quit working.

It was vital to know the time to know when to go down through the clouds. Recalling that his cigar had lasted from Cleveland to Mercer, he thought it over. 'That's 75 miles. I have about 255 miles to go. Let's see ... 75 into 255 is 3 and 30 left over. That's 30-75s ... two-fifths. If I smoke three and two-fifths cigars, I should be about over Hadley, if I'm on my course.'

Hill took four cigars from his pocket. placed three beside him and lit the fourth, then took off. When it was finished he lit another and on he went, chain-smoking over the clouds. When two-fifths of the last cigar was gone, he throttled back and went down through the clouds and there—a welcome sight not far away—was Hadley Field. (— From a Pittsburgh newspaper 3/19/38 via Lloyd Santmeyer)

What a good story! But one is enough for me, lol.

Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 14):
I guess the bottle of cognac could be placed on top of the instrument-panel to substitute for an inoperative artificial horizon drunk

Yes we'd better not drink the whole thing lest we not care whether we fly right or crash!  champagne   champagne   champagne   champagne   boggled   boggled   drunk   drunk   drunk   knockout 
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:41 am



Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 14):

Very Interesting story there.

Leak checking was much easier in those days of Smoking to Mx.

However read someplace that there was a considerably savings anually by SQ when they got the ashtrays removed from the Armrests of their fleet of B747s,after smoking was probhited.

regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
411A
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:53 am

On our L1011 aircraft, passenger smoking is not allowed, however, the FD crew can smoke to their hearts content and the cabin crew normally retreat to the lower galley for the same reason.
Area of normal operation, Africa, middle east.
 
2H4
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:34 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
I remember the brownish streak at the cabin outflow valve and the brown crust to be removed from cabin panels, insulation blankets and cabin furniture

Are there any detrimental effects to the aircraft (avionics, in particular) when the flight crews smoke so regularly on the flight deck?

2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
N49WA
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:48 am

Some time ago I watched a video on YouTube that was a BOAC promo for their new Boeing Stratocruiser. I recall the narrator saying that after reaching cruising altitude, the stewardess would come around to provide a choice of beverages, reading materiel and cigarettes! Seems all the old airline promos showed passengers lighting up in their seats or in the lounge. I guess it was part of the "luxury experience" of flying.
If it's new and quiet, I don't want to fly it.
 
Lexy
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:49 pm

In the L-1011 after smoking was banned onboard aircraft, I have heard a number of stories since posting this picture on Flickr about how the pilots would crawl down into the avionics bay for a quick drag.

Rich International Airways Lockheed L-1011-385-1 TriStar 1 (N312GB)  **Avionics Bay**
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
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thebatman
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:11 pm



Quoting TimePilot (Thread starter):
I'm guessing nowadays that smoking is completely prohibited on flights.

Not exactly...

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 1):
Yes, pilots often smoked in the flight deck, and in some countries, they still do.

Yep, Iberia's A340's come into ORD, and their flight decks smell like ash trays, because they basically are. Those guys smoke like crazy!
Aircraft mechanics - because pilots need heroes too!
 
Lexy
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:08 am



Quoting Thebatman (Reply 21):
Yep, Iberia's A340's come into ORD, and their flight decks smell like ash trays, because they basically are. Those guys smoke like crazy!

HAHA! I used to smoke and I can tell ya, if it was me up there flying over the Atlantic i'd be smoking like a train too! That's not exactly the most "scenic" ride I guess.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
ex52tech
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:24 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 9):

Nicotine stains were great for finding cracks in the pressure vessel. As the air/nicotine was forced through the crack it left behind the tell-tail brown stain. Worked like a poor mans NDT procedure.

My thoughts exactly. It worked well for finding door seal leaks.

When I started with the airlines smoking was permitted on all domestic flights (US). I smoked then, but don't now, and don't miss it. We never really noticed it's effect on the avionics, but I am sure that it helped the dust and lint to stick to the vents.

It did cause problems gumming up the old pneumatic outflow valves on the 721s. It made them slower than they already were.
"Saddest thing I ever witnessed....an airplane being scrapped"
 
B777LRF
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:29 am

One little trick of the trade, sometimes used by cabin crew down the back on long over-night flights, is to stick a knife in the door seal. Creates a great little draft, sitting next to it and enjoying a smoke, it's more than sufficient to suck out any smoke.

Luckily I'm in the freight business, so we just pop out behind the flight deck for a smoke. We operate a fleet of 50+ freighters, and I've never been on one where the ashtray(s) did not show signs of usage. Smoking on the flight deck is considered unsociable, but there's still a couple of guys who do it. Officially we're a non-smoking airline, but officialdom doesn't extend above 10.000 feet - even when flying with our (non-smoking) chief pilot.

The FWD main-deck on B747 freighters is the preferred smoking area for many cargo operators, yes, also when carrying DG. As for DG and smoking, unless you're daft enough trying to extinguish your ciggarette in a barrel of Class 3 or 4 there are no, repeat NO, safety hazards.

Flew TK not long ago, and presented my ID card to blag access to the flight deck. 2 Captains on the fligh, both smokers. Bliss; spent 3 out of 4 hours sat there chatting, having lunch and all the ciggies I could possibly inhale. Out of courtesy to the guys, declined offer of alcohol.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Where Did The Crew Smoke?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:01 am



Quoting B777LRF (Reply 24):
declined offer of alcohol.

Hopefully the crew declined it too.  Smile
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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