Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
jtamu97
Topic Author
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 1:33 am

MD 80 Top Windows

Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:09 pm

I do not know why it has taken me so long to notice. Why is it that MD 80's and DC-9's seem to be some of the few aircraft that have windows on the top of the cockpit? Just curios.

Later,
J
Propeller, we don't need no stinkin propeller
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:40 pm

Quoting Jtamu97 (Thread starter):
I do not know why it has taken me so long to notice. Why is it that MD 80's and DC-9's seem to be some of the few aircraft that have windows on the top of the cockpit? Just curios.

Mainly because many of the other aircraft that had them either have been largely retired (i.e. 707, DC-8, 727, 737-100, 737-200), or modified to plug them (i.e. 737-300/-400/-500). Early models of the 737 NG family also have them, and are also being plugged, and new 737 NGs have been coming off the assembly line without them for a few years now. Given that the 757, 767, and 777 also don't have them, it's no wonder that you're seeing fewer and fewer overall aircraft with them.

They also did away with them at some point with the 717s, but I don't know whether any of the earlier 717s off the line (or any of the MD-80/DC-9 variants) have similar efforts underway to plug those windows as are being done on the 737s

[Edited 2009-09-25 09:42:43]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
TSS
Posts: 3672
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:52 pm

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:49 pm

A quick ride on the outside track of the Skylink train at DFW will reveal the surprising array of things stuffed into the eyebrow windows of MD-80s by AA pilots and F/Os.  Smile
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:21 pm

Some of the AS 73G cockpit eyebrow windows still remain. I don't think AS plugged any of the M80's eyebrow windows before they left the fleet.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:35 pm



Quoting TSS (Reply 2):
A quick ride on the outside track of the Skylink train at DFW will reveal the surprising array of things stuffed into the eyebrow windows of MD-80s by AA pilots and F/Os.

Commonly, a Jeppesen Hi chart....  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:40 pm



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 4):
a Jeppesen Hi chart....

Or the Wall Street Journal.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
jamotcx
Posts: 840
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 10:20 am

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:41 pm



Quoting TSS (Reply 2):
AA pilots and F/Os

erm a first officer is a pilot?

Who can blame them blocking those windows? I fly round in my airbus with all the blinds out as it gets very bright in the flightdeck at altitude!!!
 
nema
Posts: 483
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:18 am

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:45 pm

More interestingly, and apart from all of the possible jokes, what was the purpose of windows up there?
There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:59 pm



Quoting Nema (Reply 7):
More interestingly, and apart from all of the possible jokes, what was the purpose of windows up there?

Primitive form of TCAS.
 
Josh32121
Posts: 287
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:02 am

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:15 pm

Weren't they also there for old-school navigation using the stars (in the DC-8/707 era)?
ATLien
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14113
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:27 pm

To see where you are going while making a turn.

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
G4LASRamper
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:35 am

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:42 pm



Quoting 474218 (Reply 8):
Primitive form of TCAS.

Indeed. I idea was to provide a better view, especially during turns. But in actual practice eyebrow windows didn't really improve the view all that much. They generally had sunshades in them too, making them even harder to see through. But they do let in the light and heat. No wonder many crews stuff something opaque in there.

The first time I sat on the flight decks of the early narrowbodies, I remember being amazed at how small all of the flight deck windows were. Starting around the time of the first widebodies, flight deck windows got much bigger and taller. It was no longer necessary to have eyebrow windows on many of those types - even in steep turns one could see into the turn without having to hunch down or lean over very much. Again I remember the first time I sat on the flight deck of both the DC-10 and L-1011. At the jump seat, the window came down to about knee height - truly an amazing view compared to the older window designs. And sunburn-inducing too, it you were on the sunny side of the aircraft.
"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig." - Porco Rosso
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:00 pm



Quoting G4lasramper (Reply 11):
Again I remember the first time I sat on the flight deck of both the DC-10 and L-1011. At the jump seat, the window came down to about knee height - truly an amazing view compared to the older window designs. And sunburn-inducing too, it you were on the sunny side of the aircraft.

I never had the chance to ride jumpseat on an L10 but did on a DC-10 (MIA-LGW-MIA), and man aline, did I ever get a great view and even better pictures. After riding one of those, the windows of a 73 made it feel like I was in the basement...  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
CanadianNorth
Posts: 3264
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:41 am

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:03 am



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 1):
have been largely retired (i.e. 707, DC-8, 727, 737-100, 737-200), or modified to plug them (i.e. 737-300/-400/-500).

Slightly off topic, but there are at least some 737-200s flying around with eyebrow plugs installed, as all three of our 732s are "eyebrowless".

Originally designed into older aircraft to help with navigation and traffic spotting. However modern technology has pretty much eliminated the need for these extra windows, so they have been left out of more up to date designs and plugged on earlier 737s to save weight and maintenance, as well as keep the sun off the pilots.


CanadianNorth
HS-748, like a 747 but better!
 
PGNCS
Posts: 2261
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:07 am

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:36 pm



Quoting 474218 (Reply 8):
Quoting Nema (Reply 7):
More interestingly, and apart from all of the possible jokes, what was the purpose of windows up there?

Primitive form of TCAS.

Nicely put! Of course, the reality is they are next to worthless for visibility.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 10):
To see where you are going while making a turn.

That was the theory. I understood they were initially required for cross-cockpit visibility for circling approaches, but have nothing to prove that...feel free to correct me if I am wrong on that.

Quoting G4lasramper (Reply 11):
Indeed. I idea was to provide a better view, especially during turns. But in actual practice eyebrow windows didn't really improve the view all that much.

Exactly.

Quoting G4lasramper (Reply 11):
But they do let in the light and heat.

Yes they sure do. I would love it if a plug was developed for the plane, though I'm not holding my breath.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:02 am



Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 13):
Slightly off topic, but there are at least some 737-200s flying around with eyebrow plugs installed, as all three of our 732s are "eyebrowless".

Some 727s have also had their eyebrow windows plugged. Example below (same aircraft, before and after).


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © F. Camirand
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Galen Burrows



As a sidenote, I think that's the only 727-200 Combi in existence, originally an AC passenger aircraft.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 30094
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:29 am

I still remember the time when the B737 Eyebrow windows were packed with Newspapers to keep out the Sunlight  Smile
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
CanadianNorth
Posts: 3264
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:41 am

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:51 pm



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
As a sidenote, I think that's the only 727-200 Combi in existence, originally an AC passenger aircraft.

Again veering off topic here, but just to add I also recall reading somewhere that First Air has the one and only 727-200 Combi. Never knew it had the plugs too though, but like the 737 I prefer the looks of it with. Overall it's a better aircraft without, but it does look nicer with.


CanadianNorth
HS-748, like a 747 but better!
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:14 pm



Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 9):
Weren't they also there for old-school navigation using the stars (in the DC-8/707 era)?

A common A.net myth. It would be very hard to do a proper star shoot out that window in level flight...aircraft equipped for celestial navigation had either a star dome or a sextant port.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
User avatar
Moose135
Posts: 3190
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:27 pm

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:16 pm



Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 9):
Weren't they also there for old-school navigation using the stars (in the DC-8/707 era)?

No, back in the day, they had a sextant port in the top of the fuselage to shoot the stars - we were still using it for training on the KC-135 20-odd years ago.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
TimePilot
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:40 pm

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:49 am



Quoting Keesje (Reply 10):
To see where you are going while making a turn.

In that photo, what are the handles on the window tops for? To hold on to during a turn?
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:08 am



Quoting TimePilot (Reply 20):
In that photo, what are the handles on the window tops for? To hold on to during a turn?

You hold on to them when getting in to the seat.
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8573
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:04 am



Quoting TimePilot (Reply 20):
In that photo, what are the handles on the window tops for? To hold on to during a turn?

Besides being handy for seat ingress/egress, as 474218 noted, they're also very handy for adjusting seat height without abruptly dropping to the floor, and bracing yourself when pulling the manual gear deploy handles.

Tom.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 30094
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:54 am



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 22):
Besides being handy for seat ingress/egress

Serves a purpose as a hand hold.Could be used as support for seat ingress/egress,Instruments Knob adjustments,support during a turn.hold for seat mvmt.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
B727LVR
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:54 am

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:50 pm

I heard that by removing those eyebrow windows that nose in the cockpit was also cut down. Is this true? Did these window actually cause extra wind noise, for a lack of a better word?
I'm like a kid in a candy store when it comes to planes!
 
SXDFC
Posts: 2052
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

RE: MD 80 Top Windows

Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:57 pm



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 12):
even better pictures.

Would it be possible to dig some of those up!  Wink

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DH106 and 19 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos