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Faro
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744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:10 pm

Interesting cockpit video of a 744 training flight practicing an engine-out after V1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKI8lWw_OLk&feature=related

I imagine that one no longer sees this kind of thing given the prevalence of simulator-only training syllabi.

Faro
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WestWing
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:12 pm

A question, please. In the video, at 2:25, the PF uses his right hand to click something on his left (on the yoke?) just before the throttle levers move forward to takeoff thrust. What did he do there? Thank you.
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klemmi85
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:02 pm

Applies TO/GA setting I suppose...
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9VSIO
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:20 pm

I think the TOGA switches are on the throttles themselves. He could be hitting the chrono though?
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tdscanuck
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:25 pm



Quoting WestWing (Reply 1):
A question, please. In the video, at 2:25, the PF uses his right hand to click something on his left (on the yoke?) just before the throttle levers move forward to takeoff thrust. What did he do there? Thank you.

From the response of the a/c, it looks like he armed the autothrottles. However, I'm a little puzzled, because I was pretty sure that switch is more centered on the glareshield.

The switches he pokes on the thrust levers just before the click you noted are the TO/GA switches. However, the levers don't start to drive until he reaches across and clicks the other button. If the autothrottles were armed the thrust levers should have started to drive as soon as he hit the TO/GA switches.

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Faro
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:43 pm



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 4):
The switches he pokes on the thrust levers just before the click you noted are the TO/GA switches. However, the levers don't start to drive until he reaches across and clicks the other button

From the comments at the bottom of the video, that other button is the chronometer. Seems to be a little delay between actuation of the TOGA switch and the throttle response in which case auto-throttle was already armed.

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tdscanuck
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:19 pm



Quoting Faro (Reply 5):
From the comments at the bottom of the video, that other button is the chronometer.

I had that thought too...he's definitely reaching for the right location to hack the clock, but I'm not sure why you'd do that. Maybe to track elapsed time at MTO on the remaining 3 engines.

Tom.
 
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Faro
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:24 pm



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 6):
I had that thought too...he's definitely reaching for the right location to hack the clock, but I'm not sure why you'd do that. Maybe to track elapsed time at MTO on the remaining 3 engines

May well be although I don't see why they would apply MTO thrust on a training flight with zip payload and prolly minimal fuel. Unless of course that their training syllabus specifies application of MTO thrust during engine-out training regardless of T/O weight...

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lowrider
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:25 pm

Quoting WestWing (Reply 1):
A question, please. In the video, at 2:25, the PF uses his right hand to click something on his left (on the yoke?) just before the throttle levers move forward to takeoff thrust.

Probably starting the elapsed time clock as others have said. It is useful for a number of reasons, including keeping track of time during an emergency or intense training, where stress can distort your perception of time.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 4):
The switches he pokes on the thrust levers just before the click you noted are the TO/GA switches. However, the levers don't start to drive until he reaches across and clicks the other button.

The switches on the throttles enables the the autothrottles. What you saw was a normal lag in system response.

Quoting Faro (Reply 5):
in which case auto-throttle was already armed.

The autothrottle arm switch is on the left side of the glareshield just to the right of the CAs Flight director switch and to the left of the speed window. At 1:51 it is visible in the armed position.

[Edited 2009-11-01 13:26:27]
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Fly2HMO
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:59 pm

IIRC no Boeings have an autothrottle arm switch in the yokes, if anything a disarm switch. The arm switches are in the MCP panel and the TOGA switches in the throttle levers themselves.
 
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:52 pm



Quoting Faro (Reply 5):
Seems to be a little delay between actuation of the TOGA switch and the throttle response in which case auto-throttle was already armed.

I'm guessing that there is a small delay. If nothing else this would allow the pilot to move his hand out of the way.
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PGNCS
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:06 am

It's not on the yoke, but he hacks the clock at 2:25. TOGA is engaged on the thrust levers.
 
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CCA
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:15 am

Some/most airlines have an SOP to start the clock/chrono when the TOGA switch is pressed to time the engines at TO thrust, even though the majority of take-offs are derated it's still done for standardization, the limitation usually is 5 mins at TO all engines and 10 mins at TO with an engine failure.
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WestWing
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:23 am

The actions of the pilot in the video in starting the chronometer appear fluid and well practiced. His attention is not diverted. He makes only the briefest of glances at the chronometer.

I have zero experience in any type of cockpit, but I can't help feeling that the sequence of steps, if required by SOP, appears a bit awkward. Why can't the FADEC itself keep track of duration of max-thrust?
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lowrider
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:48 am



Quoting WestWing (Reply 13):
but I can't help feeling that the sequence of steps, if required by SOP, appears a bit awkward.

Its not awkward. I do it every time, required or not.

Quoting WestWing (Reply 13):
Why can't the FADEC itself keep track of duration of max-thrust?

It can and does. The clock on the panel is for pilot situational awareness. We use it during engine starts, during the flight, to time various events during emergencies, and during approaches.
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Faro
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:53 am



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 14):
It can and does. The clock on the panel is for pilot situational awareness. We use it during engine starts, during the flight, to time various events during emergencies, and during approaches

For engine starts, is this because freighters have more than their fair share of MTO thrust take-offs or do all airlines typically time engine starts too?

Faro
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lowrider
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:22 pm



Quoting Faro (Reply 15):
all airlines typically time engine starts too?

All the ones I have ever worked for do. There is always some time limit associated with engine starts, even if it only applies in the event of a malfunction.
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Mender
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RE: 744 Cockpit Engine-Out Takeoff Video

Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:55 pm



Quoting Faro (Reply 15):
For engine starts, is this because freighters have more than their fair share of MTO thrust take-offs or do all airlines typically time engine starts too?

For one thing, the actual starter can only be operated for a limited time dependent on type. If there is a malfunction of the engine during the start sequence (hung start, hot start etc, etc) it's useful to know how long the starter has been engaged.

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