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kimon
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Trident Full Autoland

Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:35 am

Is this the only aircraft capable of doing a blind landing?
Many thanks!
 
oldtimer
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:50 pm

It was the first aicraft commercially to be able to do a full blind landing, sometime in 1964 I believe, but most modern aircraft have the same capability if fitted and authorised by their authorities, plus an authorised crew, to land blind at a Cat 3 authorised airport. Again it seems more of an European thing with the crowded skys and airways, and more likely to suffer with the type of bad weather that requires it.
 
cobra27
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:01 pm

No is not the only, but almost sure the first. I remember when BA bought 757 they were very dissapointed because they didn't have autoland
 
Woosie
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:04 pm

Any aircraft and crew capable and trained to perform Cat IIIb autolands will land "blind". No aircraft, as far as I know, is certified to perform auto landing rollouts (ie.g. - Cat IIIc autolands). I know, for the Heritage MDC models, the MD-11, MD-10 and 717 were certified for Cat IIIb autolands but no one paid for the option for their 717's (not sure if Fedex picked up that option with the MD-10s). I've never asked the Heritage Boeing model engineers about the 7-series models; I suspect the 747-400, 777, 787 and possibly the 737NG and 767 models have a Cat IIIb autoland option.
 
kimon
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:48 pm

Is this true?
CAT IIIC autolands (zero RVR) are illegal in the US - CAT IIIB is as low as you can go, otherwise it's time to divert. ...
 
71Zulu
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:12 pm



Quoting Kimon (Thread starter):
Is this the only aircraft capable of doing a blind landing?

This one's pretty close

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgeT-F9-1KI

Air Canada B767
 
474218
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:51 pm



Quoting Kimon (Reply 4):
Is this true?
CAT IIIC autolands (zero RVR) are illegal in the US - CAT IIIB is as low as you can go, otherwise it's time to divert. ...


There are no airports anywhere (not just the US) certified for CAT IIIc landings.
 
kimon
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:58 pm

How does one land if one can not see, then?
Diversion?
Is the lowest is CAT IIIB?
 
kimon
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:02 pm

Autoflare:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...171,898891,00.html?promoid=googlep

Avionics

The Trident (and also the VC-10) were the first aircraft to have automatic blind landing devices. This system was revolutionary in the late 1960s as for the first time, airliners could land at airports with little or no visibility.

The Trident used the Smith SEP5 autopilot. The auto-land system was first tested in March 1964. The first time it was used in service was in 1967 and by 1970 BEA had completed over 7,500 landings on aircraft carrying a total of 500,000 passengers.

[Edited 2010-01-31 12:05:01 by kimon]

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=45284

[Edited 2010-01-31 12:11:09 by kimon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akv2cnphpow

[Edited 2010-01-31 13:09:43 by kimon]
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:09 am



Quoting Woosie (Reply 3):
No aircraft, as far as I know, is certified to perform auto landing rollouts (ie.g. - Cat IIIc autolands).

Autoland rollout is not the same as Cat IIIC. Lots of aircraft are certified to perform autoland rollout.

Quoting Kimon (Reply 4):
Is this true?
CAT IIIC autolands (zero RVR) are illegal in the US

That's not exactly true...if you had a Cat IIIC airport, there are aircraft that could do it (there are no laws that say you can't do a Cat IIIC autoland if you have the right airplane/airport/aircrew). But, as previously mentioned, there are no Cat IIIC airports, so it's largely an academic excercise.

Quoting Woosie (Reply 3):
I've never asked the Heritage Boeing model engineers about the 7-series models; I suspect the 747-400, 777, 787 and possibly the 737NG and 767 models have a Cat IIIb autoland option.

They all are.

Tom.
 
Northwest727
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:15 am

What was significant about the L-1011 and CATIIIb? Was it the first American airliner to be equipped with it, or the first widebody?
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:34 am



Quoting Woosie (Reply 3):
No aircraft, as far as I know, is certified to perform auto landing rollouts (ie.g. - Cat IIIc autolands).

The 747-200 had rollout mode as an option, so it was CAT IIIc capable at least. This capability continues to be common, whether it is certified or not.
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:34 am



Quoting Northwest727 (Reply 10):
What was significant about the L-1011 and CATIIIb? Was it the first American airliner to be equipped with it, or the first widebody?

I suspect both.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:50 am



Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 2):
No is not the only, but almost sure the first. I remember when BA bought 757 they were very dissapointed because they didn't have autoland

I think you should check your information on this tidbit.

I participated in the 757 CATIIIb certification prior to its initial delivery to BA.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 9):
Quoting Woosie (Reply 3):
I've never asked the Heritage Boeing model engineers about the 7-series models; I suspect the 747-400, 777, 787 and possibly the 737NG and 767 models have a Cat IIIb autoland option.

They all are.

Add the 757 to this list.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:03 am

What I don't get is why they still bother publishing the Not Available/Applicable CATIIIc minima if, well, they're not available in the first place.  

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/1002/05490I16RC3.PDF
 
baroque
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:10 am



Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 5):
This one's pretty close

Had a landing much like that at Newcastle (Wolsingham) in Nov, but what was a bit unusual was as we banked over about St Mary's lighthouse, the pilot announced we were going to make an autolanding - BA A320.
 
474218
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:40 am



Quoting Northwest727 (Reply 10):
What was significant about the L-1011 and CATIIIb? Was it the first American airliner to be equipped with it, or the first widebody?


The L-1011 was the first airliner to have Autoland CAT III certified as part of its original design. All L-1011's were certified to CAT IIIb as standard equipment. The L-1011 was also the first airliner to ever accomplish a CAT IIIb landing in commercial service, BA at LHR in 1981.

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 11):
The 747-200 had rollout mode as an option, so it was CAT IIIc capable at least. This capability continues to be common, whether it is certified or not.


While many aircraft have rollout guidance and could be considered CAT IIIc capable , there are no airports equipped with runway turn off guidance, so no aircraft can make a CAT IIIc landing.
 
kimon
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:24 am

What is the difference between alert height and decision height?
Many thanks!
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:49 pm



Quoting 474218 (Reply 16):
While many aircraft have rollout guidance and could be considered CAT IIIc capable , there are no airports equipped with runway turn off guidance, so no aircraft can make a CAT IIIc landing.

CAT IIIc means RVR less than 50m, not necessarily zero RVR. So a CAT IIIc certified aircraft with qualified crew could land and taxi off the runway with an RVR of say 40m.
 
Northwest727
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:04 pm



Quoting 474218 (Reply 16):

Thanks
 
kimon
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:47 pm

CXFlyboy writes:

In answer to your questions, not every aircraft is approved to do the different categories of landing. Let me explain a little of how it works. The ILS is made up of two signals, one is a thin band from almost ground level to very high. This is the localiser and guides planes onto the extended centerline of the runway. This signal originates from the far end of the runway so even after touchdown you can receive this signal till the end of the runway. The other signal is the glideslope which shoots outwards and upwards from the touchdown point normally at a 3 degree angle to glide the planes down.

These signals are very simple pieces of technology and at the other end, the receiver on the plane which takes these two signals is also fairly simple. The autopilot then homes in on these simple signals. Even cheap single engines propellor planes with basic autopilots have the ability to follow these signals and automatically fly an ILS.

What makes things more complicated is the autoland and the regulations which demand the low failure rates and the various back-ups required for a passenger category airliner. Because a failure of the aircraft system at low altitude can be a major problem, airliners normally have 3 systems installed and all 3 systems continuously monitor aircraft performance. If one system does not match the other two then the other two take over and disregard the problem one. This of course gives less redundancy and increases the chance of error (Although of course very small chance). If a further one of the two systems no longer agrees with the other, the system has no way of knowing which is accurate and which is not and you lose the autoland or even the ability to fly the ILS.

On the ground side, there is no difference in the signal transmitted for CAT I, II or III. The ILS is a simple signal and no matter which category, it is the same signal. What makes a difference in the airport allowing the different categories is a guarantee of levels of interference. As I said before, the signals are a very simple technology and are prone to interference from all sorts of things. If a car drives by the landing end of the runway, it could disrupt the signal briefly and slightly. Even a plane at the holding point can cause this signal to be disrupted. A plane on the ILS may block and bend the signal for the second plane flying behind, even worse for the third plane and fourth plane etc..

So when you fly a CAT I ILS, there is no real guarantee that the signal will be very accurate. The lower you are, the more accurate you need the signal to be...accurate within a mere matter of feet in fact. Because it is not too accurate, the decision altitude for the landing (The point at which you must be able to see the runway) is normally around 200ft above ground. Below 200ft the airport cannot guarantee the accuracy of the signal and therefore the pilot must be able to see the runway so that they can take over from the aircraft autoland if need be. Note that you can still do an autoland and allow your aircraft to land itself, but you must be able to see the runway well enough to make sure that the signal interference does not cause inaccuracies.

When the weather does not allow CAT I approaches to be used some airports can switch to CAT II. This guarantees a better level of accuracy for the ILS signal. They do this by restricting the number of vehicles and planes on the ground near the signal antennas. You may notice that there are different holding points for a runway. Planes holding at the end of the runway are at CAT I holding points. Next time you are at an airport look out for the taxiway signs and you will notice that a little distance before the runway end is the CAT II holding point. When CAT II is in operation, ATC hold the aircraft here, away from the end of the runway to guarantee the ILS signal is not affected by taxying aircraft. Ground vehicles are forbidden from going near the end of the runway. Fewer planes are allowed on the approach because of the possibility of the signal being disrupted for the plane behind. This obviously slows down operations at the airport which is why airports are often reluctant to go beyond CAT I, because it slows their operations down and at a busy airport this can cause chaos with flights diverting.

When the weather gets even worse, airports switch to CAT III status where ground traffic have to hold even further away from the runway and planes on the approach have to be spaced even further apart.

Some airports are not able to give CAT III or even CAT II because they are unable to guarantee the accuracy of the signal to those levels. Perhaps there buildings at the end of the runway...perhaps a big tree...perhaps there is a small hill, or a major road. All these kinds of things can disrupt an ILS signal and make it impossibly to guarantee signal accuracy to CAT II or CAt III levels. In bad weather, airports also like to have ground radar to monitor the aircraft they cannot see with their eyes. If they offer CAT II or CAT III they also need to ensure their equipment does not fail and that their antenna signals are accurate also. Wind, weather and subsidence means that the angle of the antennas change over time. A 3 degree glideslope signal may become 3.05 over time and although that does not sound like much, it is actually a noticeable difference for the pilot on approach, so CAT II and CAT III operations has a higher cost for the airport and for airports which are not in places which get bad weather, there is no need for them to spend the additional cost to maintain the equipment to the higher standards required.

For the aircraft, the accuracy required for CAT III landings is very high. The pilots are basically unable to see the runway until it is too late to do anything about it. If the autopilot is not accurate and has led to you a grass field next to the runway, in CAT III conditions there is a good chance you will crash because by the time you see the cow infront of you it is too late!! So to ensure this accuracy, a number of systems must be functional at all times for the approach. This costs money for the airline to maintain which is why some planes with some airlines are not equipped to do CAT II or CAT III approaches.

Even within CAT III there is a CAT IIIa and CAT IIIb, the latter being basically a totally blind landing. Since aircraft systems don't need to see anything, it does not know what the weather is. The different category requirements are simply to allow the pilots to see and have enough time to take over in case the accuracy is not good enough. For a CAT IIIb, you still need some visibility. This is not to take over from an innaccurate system but simply because you need to see at least something in order to get off the runway and taxy to the gate.

Autoland is dependant on the aircraft only. It is nothing to do with the airport and merely the ability of the autopilot system to follow the ILS signal, accurately track the left/right needed for the localiser and the up/down needed for the glideslope. The plane also needs to accurately interpret the proximity to the ground and flare for a smooth landing. The autopilot needs to be fast enough to react to changing winds, turbulence, difference aircraft weights and different landing speeds.

Although autoland and ILS are two seperate systems and things, they do of course tie together as well. The human is unable to manualy and accurately fly to CAT II or CAT III without help. For the pilot, looking down at his instruments to check his speed, altitude, rate of descent, position relative to both the localiser and glide slope signals, and at the same time look out of the window to see the runway at low level and carry out a landing is near impossible. This is why the autopilot is normally needed and autoland needed. The pilot can monitor the aircraft performance more easily when it is on automatics. The aircraft also has aural alerts and warnings if it detects system failures. So normally, CAT II or CAT III weather and operations also requires autoland to be functional.

This is where the HUD comes in. A pilot can check their speed, altitude, rate of descent, position relative to the localizer and glideslope AND look out of the window at the same time. This means that they can manually fly more accurately than if they had to glance down then up then down etc... as you would need to do without a HUD. This has allowed some operators in some countries to fly CAT II approaches manually with no autoland. As I think I mentioned before, the HUD is a cheap way of allowing an aircraft to land in bad weather because there is no need for the airline to have autoland, or ensure their levels of accuracy which of course means more intensive maintenance.
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:19 pm



Quoting Kimon (Reply 20):
The human is unable to manualy and accurately fly to CAT II

Well written however years ago ABX was certified to hand fly CATII app in their YS-11s. They weren't certified to use the a/p! Here we will have CATIIIB autoland capabilities as well as HUD/EFVS.
 
kimon
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:43 pm

Forget about "all four engines have gone" but just what type of landing was this interms of CAT and autoland?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tID1GXF3Nwg&feature=related
The windscreen was scrubbed so bad by volcanic ash and the ILS was out!
 
aviopic
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:01 pm



Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 11):
The 747-200 had rollout mode as an option, so it was CAT IIIc capable at least.



Quoting 474218 (Reply 16):
While many aircraft have rollout guidance and could be considered CAT IIIc capable

AFAIK there is no relation between roll out and CAT IIIx
Aircraft equipped with autoland and roll out guidance don't loose their ability when performing a full day light autoland.
KL wanted their F100's CAT IIIc(3 FCC, 3 IRS, MLS) certified but never used it because there are almost none CAT IIIc runways to be found in the EU.
So they flew CAT IIIb(3 FCC, 3 IRS, ILS) with roll out guidance down to 60kts.
Then they decided to alter the system down to F70 spec for commonality reasons(2 FCC, 2 IRS, 2 ILS) as the system is now no longer redundant it degraded to CAT IIIa but still fully certified for autoland with roll out guidance.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 16):
there are no airports equipped with runway turn off guidance, so no aircraft can make a CAT IIIc landing.

Frankfurt is CAT IIIc, MLS
Or at least was, whether it is still in use I don't know.
There was another one but forgot which one, maybe Heathrow.
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:09 pm



Quoting Aviopic (Reply 23):
AFAIK there is no relation between roll out and CAT IIIx

Without a rollout mode you would surely be limited to CAT IIIa.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:45 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 16):
there are no airports equipped with runway turn off guidance, so no aircraft can make a CAT IIIc landing.

You sure about this? LHR was certified for Cat IIIc, big series of article in Flight about it in late 60/early70s. It definitely stated that BEA was certified to perform Cat IIIc landings in the HS Trident (3, I think) at LHR. What happened after that?

Gemuser
 
kimon
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:18 pm

LHR CATIIIc:Did they bother with the upkeep?
I spoke with an old BA hand and he said that it has been decommissioned a while back.
He also stated that there must be zero interference and any building may block off the signals.
 
474218
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:25 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 25):
You sure about this? LHR was certified for Cat IIIc, big series of article in Flight about it in late 60/early70s. It definitely stated that BEA was certified to perform Cat IIIc landings in the HS Trident (3, I think) at LHR. What happened after that?

A CAT IIIc landing is not the problem. But what do you do once you land and roll out.
With zero forward visibility you have no way to find the taxiways and then taxi to a gate.
 
bri2k1
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:11 pm

Quoting Kimon (Reply 20):
For the pilot, looking down at his instruments to check his speed, altitude, rate of descent, position relative to both the localiser and glide slope signals, and at the same time look out of the window to see the runway at low level and carry out a landing is near impossible.

In my instrument training, I was taught that when flying an ILS, regardless of the weather, to fly the needles all the way to DH or MDA. Then, look up, and if you see the runway (or runway environment), land; if not, go around. The DH for many Cat I approaches is 200 feet. Descending at 500FPM, that's just a handful of seconds to fly visually before starting to flare, and by that time you should be in a stabilized approach with a relatively stable airspeed, rate of descent, and attitude. I'm not disagreeing with the concept, and especially for single-pilot IFR an autopilot is a very useful tool. I just thought I would mention that while flying an ILS it's not really necessary to keep trying to look outside the whole time. With two pilots, one usually flies the needles (or monitors the autopilot doing so) and the other keeps his/her focus outside looking for the runway and traffic.
 
kimon
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:22 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 27):
A CAT IIIc landing is not the problem. But what do you do once you land and roll out.
With zero forward visibility you have no way to find the taxiways and then taxi to a gate.

Hello 474218,
Sorry for asking but why are not rollouts and taxiing automated?
If we can land on the moon,surely there must be some technological marvel that could do all the rollouts and taxi to the gate!
My BA contact said exactly the same thing that landing is the easy bit and the rest impossible.
I forgot to ask him about automated rollouts and taxiing.
Many thanks,
Kimon
 
Fabo
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:57 pm

Rollouts are easy. Most autoland-capable types do them. (all Airbii at least since A320, all Boeings at least since 75/67). But can you imagine a system precise enough to keep the airliners front wheel within feet off the centerline, be able to vacate the runway, and importantly, determine when is the plane clear off the RWY safety zone and tell the pilots (or different operator), while navigating correctly through the maze of taxiways to and from gates, and not interfering with other planes?

All this, while being cheap enough on both sides to warrant its use the few times a year it would be needed.
 
Lemmy
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:15 pm

Quoting kimon (Reply 29):
If we can land on the moon,surely there must be some technological marvel that could do all the rollouts and taxi to the gate!

Cost, I'd guess. How many days a year do airports actually need to conduct zero-visibility operations? If it's only a couple, such a system would be too expensive to turn a profit for the airport or the airlines.
 
kimon
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:00 pm

Would ATIS help in blind taxiing and rollout?
What is ATIS?
Many thanks
 
flyinTLow
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:44 pm

What aircraft are still certified for CatIIIc? I don't know of any. The A320 for example is only certified for 0-75. Right now at least. And certifying it for anything lower would be a waste of costs as of right now if there are no airports that have the certification.
 
David L
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:58 pm

Quoting kimon (Reply 32):
Would ATIS help in blind taxiing and rollout?

Not a lot. It's a recorded message with airport information such as weather conditions, runway usage, etc.

Quoting kimon (Reply 32):
What is ATIS?

Wikipedia to the rescue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Terminal_Information_Service

... unless you were talking about a tow to the terminal:

http://www.atis.net/
 
bri2k1
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:55 pm

I've always thought that a "follow me" car with flashing lights would help in these scenarios. They are sometimes used in low visibility anyway, they are closer to the ground and can see the pavement easier than from the cockpit of a big airliner.
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:19 pm

One thing to consider that hasn't been brought up here is that no matter if you have lead in taxi lights or a follow me car on a very low vis taxi is the loss of visual awareness you have in a big jet trying to make an over center 90 deg turn on a taxi way. You may see the taxi way but go to the point of try making that hard turn back and you can find yourself turning into a void hoping you're right. Not good.
 
kimon
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:35 pm

Which brings us back to SQ006.
I have not had time to read the 530 pages of the accident report but the airport had only three RWYs and they still got it wrong.
In fact,the author of a French book on air disasters,which covers a chapter on SQ006,said that pilots tend to drop their guard on small airports by taking everything for granted where as on xxxxl ones,they pay triple attention.
It is even more amazing how all three SQ006 pilots got it wrong.
Case-in-point:the 747s on small airports comibined with low RVR leads to many fatalities.
In fact,Taiwan and Tenerife have parallels.
 
n685fe
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:09 am

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 36):
One thing to consider that hasn't been brought up here is that no matter if you have lead in taxi lights or a follow me car on a very low vis taxi is the loss of visual awareness you have in a big jet trying to make an over center 90 deg turn on a taxi way. You may see the taxi way but go to the point of try making that hard turn back and you can find yourself turning into a void hoping you're right. Not good.



Nine times out of 10, this is when the media says an aircraft slid or over ran a runway when in fact they where turning on/off a taxi way and misjudged the edge and put a wheel in the mud. Even when the edge lights can be seen and braking action on the runway is sufficient, the taxi ways or the ramp area may not be. Fully loaded won't have as much a problem as when the plane is empty and out doing mx runs/taxi.
 
Fabo
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:54 am

Quoting bri2k1 (Reply 35):
I've always thought that a "follow me" car with flashing lights would help in these scenarios.

The whole point of the academic debate is 0/0 vis. Basically, you can imagine not seeing the jolts on the window casing, window is as good as covered by ducttape.
 
kimon
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:43 pm

Quoting HaveBlue:

The F-18 has autoland for landing on the CVN's, though I don't think it's used much. Also the F-16 has flown with autoland recently, but just in testing.

http://www.defencetalk.com/first-eve...of-the-f-16-fighting-falcon-16146/

[Edited 2010-02-20 09:54:42]
 
kimon
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RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:04 pm

Is this an autoland?
http://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/pr...la380-dair-france-a-johannesbourg/
It looks incredibly perfect.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6600
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:02 pm

Quoting kimon (Reply 41):
Is this an autoland?

Is JNB autoland approved for A380? Dunno...
Was it autoland? Dunno, but I'm guessing a no. There's a noticeable change in the vertical trajectory for it to be autoland in my opinion... looked too much like a duck and float (although probably not intentional).

But then, that's just me being picky...
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 20761
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Trident Full Autoland

Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:40 pm

Quoting kimon (Reply 29):
Sorry for asking but why are not rollouts and taxiing automated?
If we can land on the moon,surely there must be some technological marvel that could do all the rollouts and taxi to the gate!

As mentioned above, cost. It is not economical to develop and implement a system that will be used so rarely.
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8573
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: Trident Full Autoland

Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:07 am

Quoting kimon (Reply 41):
Is this an autoland?
http://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/pr...la380-dair-france-a-johannesbourg/
It looks incredibly perfect.

The flare look like it initiates too early, then backs off...if it's an autoland, it looks like it needs tweaking.

Tom.
 
AutothrustBlue
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:37 am

RE: Trident Full Autoland

Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:38 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 44):

Would ground effect explain why the plane seems to rise (almost imperceptibly) a little during the flare? Maybe its just me.

Regards
 
kimon
Topic Author
Posts: 252
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:37 pm

RE: Trident Full Autoland

Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:29 pm

Quoting Captain Ross Aimer:
Yes, United Airlines fleet were certified to do CATIIIC landings.
I have done a few actual CATIIIC landings in LHR, SEA and SFO.
Ross
http://www.aviationexperts.com/bios/Ross.htm

[Edited 2010-02-23 13:44:57]

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