So, I'm at ERAU in DAB and started my private ASEL in Jan 08. I just got my CFI in last Jan, I'm waiting till the summer to start Multi comm add-on and am starting CFII right now. The only problem is that I feel like I have no motivation or enthusiasm for my CFI-I besides just getting it done. I do know that attitude is a huge part in these courses, but it's hard to change it. I really do love flying (VFR), but I absolutely dread the orals, so much preparation and it's so dry also.

I understand that I'm very fortunate to be where I am and I want to continue aviation, but it's hard to think about it and talk about it day in and day out at this point. I want to take an aerobatics course in Orlando to maybe bring me out of it. Any of you been in this position before or have any advice to re-energize me for the rest of my training?

Hmm, perhaps go do a seaplane course? Or go get some tailwheel time? Or how about some LSA flying? Make a trip up to XFL, and talk to some of the guys up there. Lots of fun to be had up there, if you are willing to drive. Beyond that, there are a few interesting things to fly around Daytona Beach, if you look around. But, you've got to be willing to fly airplanes that don't have the ERAU name on them. With that comes sort of a different atmosphere (typically lower prices).

-DiamondFlyer

take a break. Flying is a passion. Allow yourself to miss it and yearn for it during the break.

Try 2-3 weeks away from it.

It worked for me on a cessna 152, and now it works for me on a 737-800. (except I don't get all 3 weeks at once :-p )

It happens to almost all of us, specially at Riddle where they are ridiculously grueling and tough. (but that's a good thing IMO). I saw lots of my friends fall in the same "flying depression", if you will, before me. I was their unofficial "counselor" lol. But it never happened to me until the very end of my CFI training, where I hit some snag with a very bad instructor and training manager. It was really tough for me specially since I had done nearly 5 years of flawless and trouble-free training with great instructors and no flunked check flights.

But basically I took a month off. After that I did a solo "pleasure" flight on a rental, just for the fun of it. That REALLY helped remind me of how much I loved flying and that it was worth the effort. It's really different when you're on your own, no pressure, no deadlines, no standards to meet, no instructor nagging at you, etc. Just soak up on the beauty of flying.

If that doesn't help though, then you're probably better off doing something else.

[Edited 2010-03-31 12:59:14]

Find another career. You whole rest of your adult life as a commercial pilot will be spent taking checkrides and orals. They don't get any easier. And as a captain you get to experience that fun every 6 months. Just think of all the good times to come. If I have to do another V1 cut with a single engine ILS with loss of all hydraulics anytime soon I'm going to kill someone.

I agree with what everyone else has said.

You should take a break from it.

Can you take off an entire semester, or else, go a full semester without taking a course dealing with aviation?

If you find you really miss it, then that may re-energize you to get back to the grind (that was suppose to be a pun. I love aviation, but there's no doubt about it--it is a LOT of work).

If you find you don't miss it very much, that may be a signal to pursue another career and just fly on the side as a hobby.

Take a deep breath and give this some thought, but whatever you decide to do, keep in mind, there is not a "wrong" decision, and nobody will think less of you if you decide on a different career path.

Quoting JETPILOT (Reply 4): Find another career. You whole rest of your adult life as a commercial pilot will be spent taking checkrides and orals. They don't get any easier. And as a captain you get to experience that fun every 6 months. Just think of all the good times to come. If I have to do another V1 cut with a single engine ILS with loss of all hydraulics anytime soon I'm going to kill someone.

As true as that may be, that's not the most constructive way to put it now isn't it?  

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 1): Or go get some tailwheel time?

Very true. You can't really fly airplanes without taildragger time; preferably one without flaps.

Quoting Inbound (Reply 2): take a break. Flying is a passion. Allow yourself to miss it and yearn for it during the break.

That's the right idea. Do something entertaining that has nothing to do with flying for a while. Too much of any one thing can lead to permanent burnout.

[Edited 2010-03-31 22:15:57]

Quoting JETPILOT (Reply 4): Find another career

I'm don't plan on doing flying as a career initially anyways, unless the AF decides I'm worthy of a pilot slot!



Thanks for all the advice, I did take about 2 months off after my CFI and only flew once just to get night current. I'm going to try to get some tailwheel time and maybe some glider time soon. As soon as I get done with my II and AMEL, I'm going to take time off and only why when I WANT to.

I would just rent a plane and go have some fun flying. It's all about fun anyway isn't it? If your out west go mountain flying. Fly to the Bahamas or to the FL Keys.

I live in Daytona Beach as well and though I am a low time PPL I agree with what the others are saying. Flying has been a life long passion for me I can't imagine it ever getting irritating. That being said I did what I wanted to do which was get the license and fly for fun, and for fun only. A trip up to the Fly By Cafe at St. Augustine or HiJackers at Flagler with friends or a girlfriend on a nice Florida day was hard to beat. I haven't done it yet but absolutely getting some other kind of flight time like tailwheel, seaplane, glider, helo etc should rekindle the passion. Flying with my dad when he flies helo's is a whole nother perspective and it's great. But I do agree with at least one of the other commenters above... if its already becoming burdensome and you're burnt out maybe this isn't the thing for you. Whether military or civil the tests and tribulations don't go away you've got to really love what you're doing and I believe that applies much more so for flying than some other professions. Good luck either way.

Here's my question:

You're not planning on being an airline pilot, don't plan on doing it professionally outisde of the military, so why are you blowing tons of money on a degree at Riddle in a field you don't plan on using? Why not study something outside of flying that will be practical in the real world should the flying ambitions not work out?

If you're burnt out now, what are you going to do when you've had it? Aviation degrees are worthless outside aviation. I know from experience.

Quoting spudsmac (Reply 9): unless the AF decides I'm worthy of a pilot slot!

Eh good luck with that. Of the 20+ ROTC guys I knew only 3 or 4 got pilot slots. The rest, desk jobs.

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 12): You're not planning on being an airline pilot, don't plan on doing it professionally outisde of the military, so why are you blowing tons of money on a degree at Riddle in a field you don't plan on using? Why not study something outside of flying that will be practical in the real world should the flying ambitions not work out? If you're burnt out now, what are you going to do when you've had it? Aviation degrees are worthless outside aviation. I know from experience.

He's ROTC, so YOUR taxes are paying for his degree, or part of it at least.  

But maybe corporate would be the way to go. That's where i'm headed hopefully soon.

Seems to be the least worse route nowadays, unless you end up at some shady place or the places that fly Citation Xs as if they were running a 2nd rate regional airline   

Quoting spudsmac (Thread starter): I understand that I'm very fortunate to be where I am and I want to continue aviation, but it's hard to think about it and talk about it day in and day out at this point. I want to take an aerobatics course in Orlando to maybe bring me out of it. Any of you been in this position before or have any advice to re-energize me for the rest of my training?

Speaking from experience here. If you let it, Riddle DAB will literally suck the passion of flying right out from you like a vacuum...Over-ego'd, god-complexed check instructors with attitudes for no reason other than to have an attitude (sorry YOUR career isn't progressing as fast as you thought it would), ridiculous and unrealistic flight department policies which don't even allow wiggle room for life to happen, and to top it all off, no guarantee that the fruit of your efforts will even be realized or worthwhile in such an unpredictable and uncertain industry. In hindsight, who in their right mind would spend $130k to get their ass kicked, run through the cleaners and forced to pretend they're some form of life other than human, knowing they get to make 20-30k a year at best for an untellable future, maybe get a few more G's after an upgrade at some point down the road, then only to be kicked to the curb and have to start all over again while pushing an age at which most people would prefer to be already deeply rooted in some sort of career? All with a smile. And for what...a couple of stripes on your sleeve?

I may or may not have the help you're looking for, but I, too, was extremely burned out of flying...not just Riddle...after CFI/II by the end of summer after my junior year. And to top it all of, the 737 simulator training the following senior fall semester was coached by none other than a loud, barking, rudely and obscenely obnoxious...individual...who impressed me as someone better suited to work in a steel mill. I think it was after that point that the seeds were planted which ultimately led to my leaving flying altogether, even though it didn't happen until well after graduation having already accepted a CFI job. I just couldn't kid myself anymore into thinking this was going to be a worthwhile venture, when I knew this was only going to be the beginning of a very uncertain and unreliable path, the least of which could ever realistically sustain a home, family, and marriage with a reasonable prolonged expectation of stability. And I'm glad I found a path (public safety communications) which I believe can sustain just that, which keeps me close to home, has a predictable pay scale, a (somewhat) predicable schedule, room to advance, plenty of overtime to be had, and will always have a minimum fundamental staffing need in society...More so than, say, cops or firefighters, which can always run short-staffed, but you still need people to answer the phones. But I digress.

Only you will know what's best for you, even though you may or may not even realize what that might be at this time. Maybe all you need is that solo rental or cross-country to get right back in the game and get the passion back, or maybe it's something deeper than that. But I definitely wouldn't say the best thing right now is to go out and get more training in the likes of seaplane, tailwheel, aerobatics, etc, seeing as it appears that's what's been getting you into this mess in the first place. Go out and have some fun, knowing and doing what you already know. Contrary to popular belief, pattern work in a 172 can be extremely enjoyable when you don't have someone constantly looking over your shoulder criticizing your every motion and flick of a switch. My best flight, after all the training and experience, was still the dinky local night solo during commercial which was pretty much just a BS run to Ormond for pattern work and back...It was such a beautiful spring night, partly cloudy and calm, very light traffic, Incubus' Echo running through my mind, and I felt like the sky was mine. To this day, I've never stepped off a plane feeling more refreshed and relaxed than that night, as it was just such a carefree experience with no one analyzing my every move. So if there's a better way to unwind from the stress of flight training and Riddle, I don't know what is.

Good luck, and I hope you find what you're looking for.

I also tried FI course, but only theory. It would cost me around 6000 Euros and not much flying afterwards and airport is far from home so I let it pass.

Quoting spudsmac (Thread starter): So, I'm at ERAU in DAB and started my private ASEL in Jan 08. I just got my CFI in last Jan, I'm waiting till the summer to start Multi comm add-on and am starting CFII right now. The only problem is that I feel like I have no motivation or enthusiasm for my CFI-I besides just getting it done. I do know that attitude is a huge part in these courses, but it's hard to change it. I really do love flying (VFR), but I absolutely dread the orals, so much preparation and it's so dry also. I understand that I'm very fortunate to be where I am and I want to continue aviation, but it's hard to think about it and talk about it day in and day out at this point. I want to take an aerobatics course in Orlando to maybe bring me out of it. Any of you been in this position before or have any advice to re-energize me for the rest of my training?

Transfer to Prescott and relax. While still a pilot farm, it’s not a human meat grinder like Daytona Beach and the scenery is better (Not that scenery). Either that or transfer to UND and enjoy some real weather that will make it fun again.

Quoting Boeing1970 (Reply 16): Transfer to Prescott and relax. While still a pilot farm, it’s not a human meat grinder like Daytona Beach and the scenery is better (Not that scenery).

        

I beg to differ. As a PRC graduate I can tell you they are just as tough there, if not tougher. In the end it might make you a better pilot, after all PRC's flight team has been no.1 for a long time. PRC has been known to have the better flight program out of the two for a while. Though they seem to be evening out as of late.

And PRC is just as boring as DAB, so I've been told by transfers from DAB, though PHX (read: ASU girls and parties!  ) is a short drive/fast flight away.

But I do believe PRC is a much better place to learn to fly, you get constant strong winds, turbulence and high altitude experience. And no hurricanes/tornadoes to worry about.

Quoting Boeing1970 (Reply 16): scenery is better (Not that scenery)

haha  

As I have progressed through CFI-I, I think I'm just burned out from the orals. I still have tons of fun flying and even enjoyed the sim. When I get a chance and $, I'm still going to do some aerobatics and helicopters.

Quoting JETPILOT (Reply 4): Find another career. You whole rest of your adult life as a commercial pilot will be spent taking checkrides and orals. They don't get any easier. And as a captain you get to experience that fun every 6 months. Just think of all the good times to come. If I have to do another V1 cut with a single engine ILS with loss of all hydraulics anytime soon I'm going to kill someone.

+1.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 17): In the end it might make you a better pilot, after all PRC's flight team has been no.1 for a long time.

It should be pointed out that the quality of a school's flight team isn't a very good reflection of how good the pilots who come out of the school are.

-Mir

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 17): I beg to differ. As a PRC graduate I can tell you they are just as tough there, if not tougher. In the end it might make you a better pilot, after all PRC's flight team has been no.1 for a long time. PRC has been known to have the better flight program out of the two for a while. Though they seem to be evening out as of late.

Beg all you like. It is what it is.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 13): He's ROTC, so YOUR taxes are paying for his degree, or part of it at least.

I'd still have the government pay for a degree I can use outside of aviation. My college roomate (also ROTC) who majored in finance seems to be doing just fine in the F-16 despite never taking a lesson prior to UPT.

If you're a CFI take a kid, family member or significant other flying in a rental. It'll remind you how you felt in the beginning and why you started flying. And obviously take some time off for yourself.

Quoting Mir (Reply 20): It should be pointed out that the quality of a school's flight team isn't a very good reflection of how good the pilots who come out of the school are.

Considering that ERAU-P, UND, ERAU-D and WMU are consistantly in the top four, I would say it's a very good reflection.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 17): As a PRC graduate I can tell you they are just as tough there, if not tougher.

Agreed

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 17): But I do believe PRC is a much better place to learn to fly, you get constant strong winds, turbulence and high altitude experience. And no hurricanes/tornadoes to worry about.

Also spot on!

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 24): Considering that ERAU-P, UND, ERAU-D and WMU are consistantly in the top four, I would say it's a very good reflection.

Duke has a lot of resources to devote to their basketball team, and the reputation of the program attracts some good players. That doesn't mean that everyone who plays basketball at Duke (i.e. those who aren't on the team but play intramurally or something like that) is amazingly good. Basically, correlation and not causation.

Quoting Wingscrubber (Reply 23): If you're a CFI take a kid, family member or significant other flying in a rental.

Hell, you don't even have to be a CFI to do that.

-Mir

Your ratings don't say where you went to school. Also amazing how bad the rep is for certain schools once you get out on line. Some deserved, some undeserved. However I can say the majority from a couple of those "big 4" that I've flown with fit the stereotype.

Quoting Mir (Reply 26): Duke has a lot of resources to devote to their basketball team, and the reputation of the program attracts some good players. That doesn't mean that everyone who plays basketball at Duke (i.e. those who aren't on the team but play intramurally or something like that) is amazingly good. Basically, correlation and not causation.

Thats a poor argument. I'm talking about the flight programs at each university and their flight teams, everyone (team members and normal flight students) goes through the same training. There is no special training for members of the flight team. Do you think every wanna-be basketball player at Duke goes through the same training that Kyle Singler and Nolan Smith go through? Of course not. My argument is, since everyone has to know the same basic knowledge to be a pilot, competition between the schools is a pretty good indicator of the good schools.

Are ERAU (Prescott and Daytona) UND and WMU considered four of the top aviation schools? YES.
Do they all place very high year after year? YES
Do San Jose State, Central Texas College and Middle Tennessee State place high...ever? NO
Are they considered top aviation schools? NO

I understand that every school is going to have its' amazing students and its' poor students, but overall the higher quality aviation schools are going to produce more professional, more competent and more well rounded pilots.

(BTW nothing against SJSU Central Texas or MTSU, they are just four schools I remember competing against and they tend not to fair well in NIFA)

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 27): Your ratings don't say where you went to school

Exactly, so why would any other crew-member on any flight have to know where you went to school?

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 27): However I can say the majority from a couple of those "big 4" that I've flown with fit the stereotype.

I believe the majority of Airline/Corporate pilots in the US are from those "big 4"

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 27): Also amazing how bad the rep is for certain schools

Hard to tell that your talking about ERAU, but I know our reputation isn't as bad as ATP

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 28): I'm talking about the flight programs at each university and their flight teams, everyone (team members and normal flight students) goes through the same training. There is no special training for members of the flight team.

Other than the extra practice sessions that they do, of course.

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 29): Hard to tell that your talking about ERAU, but I know our reputation isn't as bad as ATP

If you're comparing ERAU to ATP, we have problems. One is a degree-granting institution, and one isn't. They should be in entirely different categories.

-Mir

Quoting Mir (Reply 30): If you're comparing ERAU to ATP, we have problems. One is a degree-granting institution, and one isn't. They should be in entirely different categories.

They both train pilots and they both get there fair (or unfair) share of crap in the industry. Thats the only way I was comparing them.

Quoting Mir (Reply 30): Other than the extra practice sessions that they do, of course.

We aren't a college sport or anything, we don't have scholarships or anything, we can't make people come to practice, if you do come and you do well, you'll probably end up competing.

So yes, we practice, but everything we are practicing and studying is going to help us in our flight courses, so in reality, it's something everyone at every flight school (college or not) should be doing.

I would also like to point out that we don't have a coach or personal instructor who makes tests or quizzes for us, everything we do is on our own for each other, for the team, and for the school.

People on the outside might be sore or cynical and say that we don't represent the school's quality, or that NIFA is a joke and doesn't correlate to good pilots, and my reaction to that...Until you have been on a nationally competitive team, until you have put in the hundreds and hundreds of hours that each person puts in, until you have won at a national level and seen your hard work pay off, don't say we don't represent our school. We work hard because thats what we are taught, from day one in ground school. I came to one of the elite flight schools because I wanted to be challenged and be one of the best. And at Nationals, for that one week each year, I truly feel like I am with the best future pilots in the world, and I'm damn proud to wear my schools colors.

Quoting Wingscrubber (Reply 23): If you're a CFI take a kid, family member or significant other flying in a rental. It'll remind you how you felt in the beginning and why you started flying. And obviously take some time off for yourself.

That's what I'm doing this Sunday. 2 discovery flights and 4 lessons after.

I can offer this advice from a similar, although unrelated field: medicine.

Medicine, like commercial aviation, takes years of training and training to deal with unlikely eventualities which you will likely never face in reality...even once. There are diseases I've never seen before that I need to be able to diagnose on sight (like smallpox and measles).

Through the grueling training, many of us wear out. Sometimes, we need to take a break. I love medicine. I love being a doctor. But sometimes the endless array of continuing medical education, malpractice insurance, recerts (yes, we have to do recerts), etc. etc. gets the best of me. And that's when it's time to take a vacation.

Could you be happy doing another, easier/higher-paying job? If so, then drop out now. No point wasting your time. If this is your dream and you know that you will never be happy or fulfilled in any other role, then buck up, kiddo. Take a break and then back to the books.

To follow up on this thread, I did some deep thinking and decided that I don't want to fly for a career anymore(unless for USAF), I want it to be a hobby. I have been doing a good bit of flight instruction on the side and am doing my II checkride sometime late this week. I feel like a ton of pressure is off me since I decided I'm not doing it full time anymore; I can really just enjoy it now.

For anyone considering a collegiate aviation degree: This is the perfect thread for you to read and realize DON'T DO IT (this coming from someone just finishing a 4 year B.S. in Aviation. Worst decision of my life).

Quoting spudsmac (Reply 34): To follow up on this thread, I did some deep thinking and decided that I don't want to fly for a career anymore(unless for USAF), I want it to be a hobby

I'd say even if you won't make a career out of it, keep flying as much as you can, and keep current, always. You never know if later on you may have a change of heart and those extra hours you flew might pay off if you find a decent flying job opportunity.

Quoting Reply 35): This is the perfect thread for you to read and realize DON'T DO IT (this coming from someone just finishing a 4 year B.S. in Aviation. Worst decision of my life).

You do realize not everybody gives up so easily and many knew what they were getting into beforehand, do you?  

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 29): I believe the majority of Airline/Corporate pilots in the US are from those "big 4"

No, they're not. I fly with people from those four schools very rarely. Keep buying into the hype. The only thing you'll have that I didn't is a bigger loan payment.

Quoting Reply 35): For anyone considering a collegiate aviation degree: This is the perfect thread for you to read and realize DON'T DO IT (this coming from someone just finishing a 4 year B.S. in Aviation. Worst decision of my life).

I don't consider this a mistake. I still enjoy it, I just don't want to have the airlines sh*t on me for my whole career. I enjoy the major and the flying for the most part (CFI-I orals :barf: ). I do have to admit in all honesty, if I had to do it over again, I would go to a party school with tons of girls and get a degree in whatever and do flight training at the most legit place I could find. Riddle is a great school, but the lack of girls combined with the way airlines treat pilots, just turns me off to the subject.