Wow, I should have been to bed long ago, but I haven't read such a gripping thread in ages.
I'm going to take a stab at summing this up for 411A where others have apparently failed (not for lack of valiant effort.)
The mechanic/captain relationship is not an adversarial one nor is anyone claiming it is. I highly doubt any of my A&P/AME colleagues here make a habit of snatching the logbook and writing something up for the sake of ego stroking. I have indeed encountered some ancy flight crews before, but never was there any thought or suggestion of trying to dispatch the aircraft before all technical and legal issues had been addressed and signed off by the appropriate individual (In fact I have found flight crews to be VERY astute at finding uncrossed T's and undotted I's)
Every professional pilot I have met has been concerned first and foremost with the safety of his/her aircraft, and arguing with or trying to bully MX
would not be conducive to this and consequently I have never seen it happen. My job is to hand the crew a safe and legally airworthy aircraft. The crews know this, and they are putting their faith in me that I would never knowingly give them or allow them to operate an unsafe/illegal aircraft. This is why even though I have all the authority I need (both through company regs and the FAA, and would be 100% backed up by both) to ground an A/C, no crew I have encountered has tried to test it. Why in God's name would they? They're the one's flyin the damn thing and if something goes wrong there's nowhere to pull over in the sky! I tell them it can't fly yet, and they say OK
(sometimes with a sob story about how this is the last day of their trip and they're le tired and wanna go home blah blah blah
. And once I hand the A/C over to them, it's the Captain's bird.
In the real world of legitimate operators, a MX
delay goes something like this:
Hangar: Either a check, inspection, or repair is taking longer than expected for any myriad of reasons. The crew is informed of the delay and given an ETA of alpha one status if possible. The crew then waits patiently for the aircraft.
At the gate: If a discrepancy can be deferred I defer it, then if the captain and dispatch are satisfied, the aircraft departs. If I can fix the problem at the gate I do so, sign the log book, hand it to the captain, he flies the plane. If the discrepancy cannot be resolved at the gate and the aircraft must go to the hangar for repairs, I politely inform the captain, who then promptly relinquishes the aircraft.
It's really that simple. We both have very specialized and important jobs. I would never try to tell a pilot how to fly, and a pilot would never try to tell me how to make the aircraft ready to fly.
|Quoting 411A (Reply 88):|
Offended or not...not my problem.
There seem to be a few maintenance guys here who think that airline operations all revolve around THEM.
Mechanics provide neither of these services, so they simply are not considered top drawer in the management chain.
The top three, without a doubt.
And if your bottom drawer MX
converts a very expensive aircraft into a smoking hole in the ground will your management chain then take notice? Not to mention if I were you I'd be more worried about my own ass than the financial returns of investing in aircraft maintenance. And your estimation of the worth of a pilot over a mechanic would seem to be unfounded as both require personnel who have made an investment in education, skill, and licensing. Plus where I work pilot and AMT payscales are pretty comparable, In fact I make more than many pilots with more company seniority.
|Quoting 411A (Reply 51):|
Yup, not only fired, expunged from the company.
Clearly, you are a 'junior' type.
We have no use for this type.,
Quoting avt007 (Reply 50):
BTW, you haven't answered my questions on airworthiness.
Certainly have, previously, and...I have the specific qualifications to do so.
And, the specific regulatoty authority fully agrees.
I firmly suggest you bottle up your attitude and try to sell it elsewhere...as it won't sell here.
IE: not with those whom have long gone before
|Quoting 411A (Reply 77):|
And, that original airline mentioned just happens to have the highest hull loss record amongst larg(er) airlines in Europe.
Indeed, if AirFrance was based elsewhere, I have no doubt it would be on the European blacklist.
Take a chance, fly Air France
Your a "professional" you say? Because for the life of me I can't find any professionalism in any of your quotes. Honestly it read's like either an angry 15 y/o, or someone with some kind of severe complex. You might think about reading your own posts and reconsider who needs to "bottle up their attitude". The more you post things like this and the more you come up with licenses to fit the argument and weird "I'm in a really special company in a really special country that says I'm the boss of everything" assertions, the more I tend to think AirframeAS is right or close to right about you.
|Quoting faro (Thread starter):|
If he had elected to take off before Paris’s Ok (to avoid breaching duty time limit for example), I imagine it would go against AF SOP, but would it nonetheless be legal?
|Quoting faro (Reply 103):|
I think that neatly sums up the discussion. In the exceptional case where one is simultaneously juggling with two caps of Mx and flight crew, the Mx role will prevail over that of captain when it comes to release. I think that everyone agrees that the Mx authority has and will always have the final say on release, whether it is incarnate in the person of the captain or not
Yeah, you pretty much got the gist of it. Any number of entities (MX, crew, MOC, dispatch) can prevent a departure, but once she leaves the ground the captain is ultimately responsible for safety of flight.
[Edited 2010-04-20 07:11:01]
Well at least we can all take comfort in the fact that NW will never retire their DC-9s