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usscvr
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Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Tue May 25, 2010 10:49 am

As a kid looking up into the skies, it was often easy to see physical differences between aircraft. Sometimes the visual clues would be that one particular airframe would be simply shorter or longer than another (727-100 series to the 200 series, for example, a bit longer with additional doors). Now there are so many series variants, visual identification has become more difficult.

As the 747 series has progressed, I have often wondered what the visual differences are in the 747 series (including the ER)? Once the 'extended hump' was added, I thought it would be easier to identify a later series. But now I know that there are later series airframes out there with the 'standard hump' configuration.

So my question is: If one were simply looking at a particular 747 airframe, in person or in a photograph, what might the visual cues be as to the series?

Any help would be appreciated!
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Starlionblue
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Tue May 25, 2010 12:53 pm

Quoting usscvr (Thread starter):
(727-100 series to the 200 series, for example, a bit longer with additional doors).

Actually they are the same length. In fact all 747 apart from the -8 are the same length. There is no real external indicator that can tell you whether it is a -100 or a -200.

Quoting usscvr (Thread starter):
Once the 'extended hump' was added, I thought it would be easier to identify a later series. But now I know that there are later series airframes out there with the 'standard hump' configuration.

It's confusing as all hell visually.

There are both -100 and -200 with a SUD (stretched upper deck) as a retrofit. So they basically look like -300.

The -400 has a new and larger wing/body fairing, but as I recall the new fairing came as a retrofit on the -300 as well so it is by no means an exact science. The winglets are a dead giveaway that it is a -400 but there is an exception: the -400D has no winglets.

The factory built -400 cargo variants (non-retrofit) have retained the short upper deck from the -100 and -200.


The engines will give you a definite clue. Also the airline.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
soon7x7
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Tue May 25, 2010 1:40 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):

How true...KLM I believe has created the full gamut of varients than any other airline....by studying the 747 history of KLM, you'll learn about all the 747 versions that exist with possible exception of a straight freighter but then they may have that as well. Actually, I think they do have dedicated freighters, I should have researched a bit before opening my mouth...think I'll take a look...g
 
speedracer1407
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Tue May 25, 2010 4:43 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
Quoting usscvr (Thread starter):
(727-100 series to the 200 series, for example, a bit longer with additional doors).

Actually they are the same length. In fact all 747 apart from the -8 are the same length. There is no real external indicator that can tell you whether it is a -100 or a -200.

Note that the OP was using the 7-TWO-7 100 and 200 as an example of visibly different variations.
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KELPkid
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Tue May 25, 2010 8:11 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
Actually they are the same length. In fact all 747 apart from the -8 are the same length. There is no real external indicator that can tell you whether it is a -100 or a -200.

I could mention the SP here, but I guess it really is a horse of a different color...   
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KELPkid
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Tue May 25, 2010 8:15 pm

Quoting usscvr (Thread starter):
So my question is: If one were simply looking at a particular 747 airframe, in person or in a photograph, what might the visual cues be as to the series?

Well, for starters, almost all -100's built (except a few -100B's for Iran Air) had P&W JT9D engines...   Of course, if an operator went on to use P&W power on their -200's, this is not a reliable indicator  

Also, many -100s had only three windows per side on the upper deck, as it wasn't intended to be a regular passenger space. However, as time went on, more windows were added as regular 3x3 seating was put in the upper deck by most operators (apparently, Piano bars didn't pay their way  Wink ). IIRC, this also lead to the installation of evacuation doors on the upper deck...

Purpose-built freighters still feature the three window upper deck  Smile

[Edited 2010-05-25 13:49:38]
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747classic
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Tue May 25, 2010 8:56 pm

Original 747 versions, listed in the Type certificate (TC), are :

747-100 Series................short upper deck, relative small tires, only JT9D engines installed.
747-200B Series..............short upper deck, larger tires (difficult to spot !!)
747-200F Series..............short upper deck, nose cargo door, no main deck cabin windows.
747-200C Series............. short upper deck, nose cargo door, main deck cabin windows present, except two missing near nose cargo door.
747SR Series..................exterior same as 100 series, also GE CF6 possible.
747SP Series..................shorter fuselage, higher vertical tail and stabilizer.
747-100B Series..............exterior same as 100 series, only also RR engines possible
747-300 Series................same as 200 series, only stretched upper deck,
747-100B SUD Series......same as 100 series, only stretched upper deck.
747-400 Series................same as 300, only more wingspan and winglets installed, no HF wing tip antennas.
747-400D Series..............same as 300, only more wingspan (one more LE panel) and no HF wing tip antennas.
747-400F Series..............same as 400 series, only with nose cargo door and no main deck cabin windows.
747-8F series (not yet included in the TC.)..... same as 400F series, only longer fuselage, raked wingtips, chevron engine cowls
747-8I series (not yet included in the TC.).... same as 400 series, only longer fuselage, raked wingtips, chevron engine cowls.

Remarks :
- 200B,300 and 400 combi aircraft are not listed as a seperate Series
- 400ER and 400ERF are listed as 400 and 400F Series (only higher operating weights)
- all other versions are conversions ( 100combi, 100SF, 200SF, 200B SUD, 200 SUD SF and 300SF).
- only the converted 747-400BCF is listed in the Type Certificate.

see : http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...61BD9862576B100706F78?OpenDocument
and open PDF file.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Tue May 25, 2010 11:20 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
Actually they are the same length. In fact all 747 apart from the -8 are the same length. There is no real external indicator that can tell you whether it is a -100 or a -200.

I could mention the SP here, but I guess it really is a horse of a different color..

Oops! 
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Viscount724
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Wed May 26, 2010 1:46 am

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 2):
KLM I believe has created the full gamut of varients

Not the SP.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 5):
Purpose-built freighters still feature the three window upper deck

The window layout isn't the same on the freighters as on the original 747-100 with the 3 widely-spaced upper deck windows per side.
 
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747classic
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Wed May 26, 2010 1:07 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 5):
Purpose-built freighters still feature the three window upper deck
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
The window layout isn't the same on the freighters as on the original 747-100 with the 3 widely-spaced upper deck windows per side.



New built dedicated 747 freighters are also produced with the later standard window configuration on the passenger 747-200's. (20 upperdeck windows) + two emergency upperdeck escape doors (type 1).


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Photo © Luc Van Belleghem



The Type Certificate for the 747-200F states for this type of upper deck the following :

For 747-200F the total passenger capacity is limited to:

19 passengers on upper deck with 2 doors, 25 knot slides, C.G. Limitation, and
compliance shown with AD 93-07-15; or 19 persons on upper deck equipped with
emergency descent reels and harnesses, 2 doors and 25 knot slides.

This feature was specified by (cargo) airlines that required additional upperdeck seating for crew positioning, animal attendants etc.


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Same aircraft, re-engined with GE CF6-50E2 engines. Additional upperdeck seating visible.

[Edited 2010-05-26 07:06:59]
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
alwaysontherun
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Wed May 26, 2010 2:38 pm

Quoting 747classic (Reply 6):
747-8F series (not yet included in the TC.)..... same as 400F series, only longer fuselage, raked wingtips, chevron engine cowls
747-8I series (not yet included in the TC.).... same as 400 series, only longer fuselage, raked wingtips, chevron engine cowls.

So the 748-I gets the extended upper deck?
Hope so, it looks so much better!

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747classic
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Wed May 26, 2010 5:02 pm

Here is your preview of the 747-8I. (linked picture)


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4068/4584781479_a65fd126ec_b_d.jpg

For fair downloads from Boeingdreamscape see :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boeingdreamscape/4584781479/sizes/l/

[Edited 2010-05-26 10:05:28]
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Thu May 27, 2010 12:11 am

Quoting 747classic (Reply 9):
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 5):
Purpose-built freighters still feature the three window upper deck
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
The window layout isn't the same on the freighters as on the original 747-100 with the 3 widely-spaced upper deck windows per side.



New built dedicated 747 freighters are also produced with the later standard window configuration on the passenger 747-200's. (20 upperdeck windows) + two emergency upperdeck escape doors (type 1).

I assumed the post I replied to was referring only to the 744F with the following window arrangement, and was comparing it to the original 3 widely-spaced windows on 747-100s and some -200s.


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United960
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:01 am

Quoting 747classic (Reply 9):

Same aircraft, re-engined with GE CF6-50E2 engines. Additional upperdeck seating visible.

Whoa! I never knew that any 747 had been converted between powerplant types! It seems aircraft 245, a -228F for AF, was converted from PW to GE power. Are there any other 747s that experienced this? You learn something new on a.net every day...
 
soon7x7
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:08 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):

Thats true, I hardly even consider the SP in '47 conversations as few were seen around here although they were used...AA, TWA and PA. I've seen more as private conversions than I did when the legacies had them...g
 
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747classic
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:07 pm

Quoting United960 (Reply 13):
Whoa! I never knew that any 747 had been converted between powerplant types! It seems aircraft 245, a -228F for AF, was converted from PW to GE power. Are there any other 747s that experienced this? You learn something new on a.net every day...

Atlas Air converted two 747-200 aircraft from JT-9D engines to CF6-50E2 engines.
The other one was L/N 253, serial number 21048. This was an ex-SQ 747-212B aircraft, converted first to Special Freighter (SF), there after re-engined.

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The aircraft overshot the runway at Dusseldorf (EDDL) at January 24, 2005 and was later scrapped.


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Photo © TT - AirTeamImages



Both aircraft used pylons and engine pods from scrapped ANA 747SR aircraft bought by Atlas Air.
The STC was already available as a part of the conversion of the military E4A into E4B version.(also conversion from JT9D into CF6-50E2) of L/N 202, serial number 20682 and L/N 204 with serial number 20683.

So, the total number of re-engined 747 aircraft (civil & military) is four.

[Edited 2010-06-08 14:29:17]

[Edited 2010-06-08 14:30:31]
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
musang
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:02 pm

Other differences to add:-

The wing leading edge - to - fuselage fairing, which is different on the -400, compared to the -1/-2/-3/SP.

SP - main deck 4 doors each side, and doors 2L and R overlap the wing leading edge.

SP - aft fuselage re-design to interface the truncated tail cone with the fuselage.

SP - completely different trailing edge flap system (a translating single section, rather than the "normal" triple slotted, only really apparent when extended), without the characteristic track fairings.

Regards - musang
 
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747classic
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:46 am

Quoting musang (Reply 16):
The wing leading edge - to - fuselage fairing, which is different on the -400, compared to the -1/-2/-3/SP.



The improved wing to body fairing is installed on all 747-400 aircraft. But it's a Product Improvement Package (PIP), also installed on 747-200B, 200C, 200F and 300 aircraft, produced after the first 747-400 on the same production line.
This feature was also offered as a retrofit, but AFAIK nobody obtained the retrofit kit, because of the high costs versus the gains (0.5% fuelsaving).


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747-281B......................................................................................... 747-21AC


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747-228F......................................................................................... 747-329(M)
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
Clydenairways
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:28 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
. There is no real external indicator that can tell you whether it is a -100 or a -200.

The tyres are fatter on the 747-200, that's what i used to look for.
 
airbuster
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:26 pm

Hello everyone,

I've had a question for some time now and it's about the 747 flight deck windows, on very early models, actually the only picture i found was on PA 747-100's the flight deck window structure is PAINTED white, whilst on all later 747 models it's bare metal with the rivets visible, why is this?

https://www.airliners.net/FC_nowm.file?u=THwxMTQ5MDE0fGQ5ZzhoN2o2cXdlcnR5

and:

FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
 
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kl5147
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:12 am

Quoting airbuster (Reply 19):
actually the only picture i found

Please reload the pic, since the link does not work
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airbuster
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:39 pm

FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
 
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747classic
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RE: Visual Differences In The 747 Series

Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:23 pm

On the first delivered (PanAm) aircraft the outer aluminium retainer of the the no 1 cockpit windows was also painted. However after initial operation far more cockpit window changes were required, than anticipated. On later delivered aircraft the retainer was not painted any more, for easier replacement of the windows. The rivets are actually bolts for connecting the retainer plate and for fixation of the window.


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Photo © Ken Rose

LH photo : undammaged paint on aircraft and window retainer, factory delivered.

On the RH photo, you can see the damaged paint after the window change (RH window). Later, all aircraft were painted, with the retainer sealed off. (not painted), see LH window with unpainted retainer.
(RH window, always in fwd facing direction, is left on photo !)

[Edited 2010-06-13 06:34:29]
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.

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