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Fly2HMO
Topic Author
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:48 pm

So I may be needing to get an SIC type rating on a Citation Bravo soon, if I'm lucky. And my employer would of course pay for it. It would be part 91 type of flying. And I would be having much better pay and QOL than at a regional, so I'm not suffering from shiny jet syndrome, yet. 

However, I have just under 300 TT, 65 multi. No jet experience whatsoever, unless you count 26 hours of 737 Level D time. While I aced CO's 737 newhire course, I was fresh out of my Commercial AMEL at the time, and I was surprised on how relatively simple the 737 was.

OTOH, I haven't flown worth a damn in the past year (less than 10 hours). So I'm almost dreading doing the 14 week SIC type rating course. I'm definitely not as sharp or agile and quick witted when flying as I used to be, and while I know I can comfortably and safely fly IFR in a C172 in busy airspace as I am right now, I'm not too sure I'm ready to handle such an intensive course. I have been reading up on general Citation systems and stuff, been talking to many Citation drivers (and I'm shocked on how many are adamant that it flies like a really fast 172), and been thinking about getting some more flight time. However, the nearest place I can rent from is a 5 hour drive a way, and not to mention I'm broke, so that's kind of out of the question for now. Been thinking about playing FS a bit more as well to practice IFR.

At any rate, what can a guy like me who's confined to the ground, for now, do to get his flying skills back? Not so much talking about seat-of-the-pants stuff, but coping with multitasking, emergencies, flows etc etc
 
Dufo
Posts: 827
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:41 am

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:16 am

14 weeks for single pilot Cessna Bravo?
Most such type ratings require 2-4 weeks.
I seriously think I just creamed my pants without any influence from any outside variables.
 
DashTrash
Posts: 1333
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:44 am

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:30 pm

You only need a type rating as an SIC if you're flying international.

I wouldn't bother with an SIC type. Same training / checkride as a regular type rating.
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:05 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Thread starter):
However, I have just under 300 TT, 65 multi.

Wow, I've got more time than you   

I think you've got me beat on the ratings game, though...  

And I only have 1.1 of multi logged, in a Cessna 337 (centerline-thrust)  
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
Fly2HMO
Topic Author
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:26 am

Quoting Dufo (Reply 1):
14 weeks for single pilot Cessna Bravo?

Massive brainfart, meant 14 days, or 2 weeks rather.

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 2):
You only need a type rating as an SIC if you're flying international.

I'd be flying in Mexico, with a plane based in Mexico. (NO I'm not flying under the radar   )

Even if the regs don't require it, insurance will, 99% of the time at least.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):
Wow, I've got more time than you

Heh, I've already reached the sad conclusion long ago that pretty much everybody not currently in a flight school right now has more time than me   

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):


And I only have 1.1 of multi logged, in a Cessna 337 (centerline-thrust)

Pfsh! That doesn't count!  
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3518
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:57 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 4):
Massive brainfart, meant 14 days, or 2 weeks rather.

Still seems long, unless its for insurance requirements or for a 91K operation. Take a look at 61.55. Basically, some basic ground training on the plane, and then 3 takeoff/landings and some engine out work, and you'd be good to go. Basically, you can get an endorsement saying you've done that, and take it to the FSDO, and you get the SIC rating on your certificate.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
YWG
Posts: 1054
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2001 11:29 am

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:53 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Thread starter):
get an SIC type rating on a Citation Bravo
Quoting Fly2HMO (Thread starter):
I have just under 300 TT, 65 multi. No jet experience whatsoever, unless you count 26 hours of 737 Level D time.
Quoting Fly2HMO (Thread starter):
I haven't flown worth a damn in the past year (less than 10 hours)

I hope nothing but good things for you and your training, but I have no doubt this will not be easy for you. Study, study, study! Do you have any turbine experience?
Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2406
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:02 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Thread starter):
At any rate, what can a guy like me who's confined to the ground, for now, do to get his flying skills back? Not so much talking about seat-of-the-pants stuff, but coping with multitasking, emergencies, flows etc etc

Flight sim might help get your brain back into flying mode, just put it low IFR and start with basic skills to get your scan going again. Obviously the panel on the Citation will be different but at least you won't be jumping into the deep end with no floaties on. Throw in some holds, fly each entry a few times, start with easy IAP's then maybe throw in more challenging ones with step downs or PT's and end it with some good ol' NDB work.

Again, not as good as the real thing but when I interviewed for my current job we had a sim eval and I hadn't flown hard IMC in months because it was the dead of winter and we had no FIKI equipped airplanes. FS helped at least get my scan going and get my brain moving in the IFR environment again.
Life is better when you surf.
 
Fly2HMO
Topic Author
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:47 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 5):

Still seems long, unless its for insurance requirements or for a 91K operation.

That's what the initial SIC rating will take at Simuflite. I rather it be long. When I was at my sharpest I could easily ace those drink-out-of-a-firehouse type of courses. But I'm sure I can't handle that much info at this point   

Quoting YWG (Reply 6):
Do you have any turbine experience?

As I said:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Thread starter):
No jet experience whatsoever, unless you count 26 hours of 737 Level D time.
Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 7):

Again, not as good as the real thing but when I interviewed for my current job we had a sim eval and I hadn't flown hard IMC in months because it was the dead of winter and we had no FIKI equipped airplanes. FS helped at least get my scan going and get my brain moving in the IFR environment again.

Funny I was thinking about a self-made FS training program just like you said  I can't find a Primus 1000 plane for FS but I do have a Citation II model, same thing as the Bravo but with wimpy engines and steam gauges.

The one advantage I have at least is that I have about equal (real) time logged in both steam gauges and glass cockpits, so the transition is a non-issue for me, even if I'm rusty.
 
flight152
Posts: 3509
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:10 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Thread starter):
However, I have just under 300 TT,


Who is this employer? Nothing sounds more frightening then a 300 TT pilot in the front seat of a Citation, a riddle grad no less.
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2406
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:47 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 8):
Funny I was thinking about a self-made FS training program just like you said  I can't find a Primus 1000 plane for FS but I do have a Citation II model, same thing as the Bravo but with wimpy engines and steam gauges.

The one advantage I have at least is that I have about equal (real) time logged in both steam gauges and glass cockpits, so the transition is a non-issue for me, even if I'm rusty.

Don't worry about the flight deck layout, you will get plenty familiar with that in the sim. I'd do it in a 172 or something with a generic panel and six pack. If you can fly steam gauges safely in IMC, glass won't be an issue once you learn how to use the system.
Life is better when you surf.
 
Fly2HMO
Topic Author
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:11 pm

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 9):
Who is this employer? Nothing sounds more frightening then a 300 TT pilot in the front seat of a Citation, a riddle grad no less.

Friend of my dad with too much money in his hands  
Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 10):
glass won't be an issue once you learn how to use the system.

I'm really comfortable with glass, specially the G1000, flown the G1000 for over 100 hours. And I've tinkered with other glass/FMS systems and what not. So I should be fine.


Well I'm off to do some pretend approaches in FS down to minimums   
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:23 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 11):
Well I'm off to do some pretend approaches in FS down to minimums

Gotta love runways that pop out of the clouds magically down at ILS mins (with great visiblility!)  
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
Fly2HMO
Topic Author
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:22 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12):

Gotta love runways that pop out of the clouds magically down at ILS mins (with great visiblility!)

Oh yes. Specially when you KNOW it will happen EXACTLY at 199 ft, beforehand 
 
swiftski
Posts: 1837
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:37 am

Here is what worries me:

"So Mr. Armchair Pilot, would you like to see my credentials? Fine then: Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Aeronautical Science Graduate, WX minor, PRC Campus. Certified Flight Instructor-Instrument Airplane SEL & Commercial AMEL/ASEL/IFR license, High Performance/High Altitude endorsed, Advanced Upset Recovery Trained. Questions?"

Followed by:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 8):
Quoting YWG (Reply 6):
Do you have any turbine experience?

Quoting Fly2HMO,reply=8:
As I said:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Thread starter):
No jet experience whatsoever, unless you count 26 hours of 737 Level D time.

Back to the definitions book, it seems.
 
Fly2HMO
Topic Author
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:50 am

Quoting swiftski (Reply 14):
Here is what worries me:

Not sure what you're hinting at, but that is meant for the idiotic 15 year old armchair pilots that plague these boards that think they can come teach me how to fly a plane and know better about the industry. But I also knows there's more experienced people than myself here as well and respect them. And all that being said, I know I'm not god's gift to aviation and am well aware of my limits.

[Edited 2010-06-21 18:54:19]
 
dw747400
Posts: 1100
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 8:24 am

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:32 am

Quoting swiftski (Reply 14):
Here is what worries me:

"So Mr. Armchair Pilot, would you like to see my credentials? Fine then: Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Aeronautical Science Graduate, WX minor, PRC Campus. Certified Flight Instructor-Instrument Airplane SEL & Commercial AMEL/ASEL/IFR license, High Performance/High Altitude endorsed, Advanced Upset Recovery Trained. Questions?"

Considering we are talking SIC on what is one of the most docile turbine aircraft on the market, I think your assessment may be a little harsh. I think the fact that Fly2HMO started this thread indicates he isn't approaching this opportunity with the recognition that this is a different type of flying and will require hard work to get up to speed. After all, you need to transition to turbine somewhere. The US military does it long before 300 hours.

I'm not advocating every 300 hour pilot should ho into the right seat of a jet, but I feel with the right approach, a highly qualified captain, and reasonable limits (stay conservative when it comes to minimums, etc.) it is a safe endeavor. I'd be more concerned about some experienced pilots who have become complacent, and there are quite a few of them out there in 91 ops!
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
swiftski
Posts: 1837
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:12 pm

Quoting dw747400 (Reply 16):
Considering we are talking SIC on what is one of the most docile turbine aircraft on the market, I think your assessment may be a little harsh

That's what he says about himself in his own profile. He talks about himself like he is invincible, and that is the scary thought.

I know a Grade 1 Instructor with over 10,000hours that is more humble.
 
Fly2HMO
Topic Author
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Getting An SIC CE550 Type Rating With Low Time

Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:37 pm

Quoting swiftski (Reply 17):

That's what he says about himself in his own profile. He talks about himself like he is invincible, and that is the scary thought.

I know a Grade 1 Instructor with over 10,000hours that is more humble.

If I truly thought I was invincible I wouldn't have started this thread to begin with don't you think?  

As I said, that statement is directed to the armchair pilots in this forum. I've been questioned several times by several of them as to my credentials and what have you not. I don't see any harm in doing so, even sarcastically   

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