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longhauler
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B727-23 Vs B727-123

Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:02 am

As we all know, a B727-23 is a series 100 B727 (built in this case for American). As the -200s were being built, then the nomenclature changed to B727-123. So I had always thought that a B727-23 is the same as a B727-123, just built earlier.

When looking at the build list for the B727 thought, I noticed something strange:

The first batch of B727-100s for American were in fact B727-23s.


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cn 19132

Then a later batch of -100s were B727-123s. This makes sense, as the -200 was being built by then, and the nomenclature changed.


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cn 19838

The strange part is that the last batch of B727-100s for American were B727-23s again, not -123s. And checking the build list, they were in fact built later.


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cn 20044

So my query is, is there a difference between a B727-23 and a B727-123? And why was the nomenclature changed back to B727-23 for the last few B727-100s built for American?
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
trex8
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RE: B727-23 Vs B727-123

Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:31 pm

Whose build list are you using? May just be the authors personal classification.
 
411A
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RE: B727-23 Vs B727-123

Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:31 am

Quoting longhauler (Thread starter):
And why was the nomenclature changed back to B727-23 for the last few B727-100s built for American?

Additional fuel capacity to enable flights such as LGA-PHX nonstop with a full payload in the wintertime...at least that is what an AA Captain told me, years ago, whilst deadheading on AA.
 
timz
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RE: B727-23 Vs B727-123

Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:41 pm

Quoting 411A (Reply 2):
flights such as LGA-PHX nonstop

Wonder which flights he meant-- AA never scheduled a nonstop out of LGA to anywhere beyond Texas, did they?
 
Viscount724
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RE: B727-23 Vs B727-123

Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:53 am

Quoting longhauler (Thread starter):
Then a later batch of -100s were B727-123s.

A couple of fleet lists I checked show only 2 727s officially designated as 727-123: serial # 19838 (line/build # 551) and serial # 19839 (line/build # 542). That's confirmed by the FAA type certificate data sheet (see page 2...only shows serial numbers, not build numbers).
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...f6985256722006b0c1c/$FILE/A3we.pdf

Quoting longhauler (Thread starter):
The strange part is that the last batch of B727-100s for American were B727-23s again, not -123s. And checking the build list, they were in fact built later.

I can only find 3 AA 727-23s built after the 2 aircraft mentioned above. Is that the batch you're referring to? Those aircraft are (serial/line nbrs): 20044/592, 20045/596, 20046/605. Not sure why those are -23 and not -123. They're also shown as -23 in the FAA TCDS.
 
411A
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RE: B727-23 Vs B727-123

Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:39 am

Quoting timz (Reply 3):
Wonder which flights he meant-- AA never scheduled a nonstop out of LGA to anywhere beyond Texas, did they?

Dunno about Texas, however, I flew many times between LGA and PHX nonstop on AA during the period 1982-1986, while on monthly days off from SVA....when the JFK-PHX flights were fully booked.
 
Viscount724
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RE: B727-23 Vs B727-123

Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:01 pm

Quoting 411A (Reply 5):
Quoting timz (Reply 3):
Wonder which flights he meant-- AA never scheduled a nonstop out of LGA to anywhere beyond Texas, did they?

Dunno about Texas, however, I flew many times between LGA and PHX nonstop on AA during the period 1982-1986, while on monthly days off from SVA....when the JFK-PHX flights were fully booked.

Didn't that conflict with the LGA perimeter rule? Prior to 1984 I believe it was an informal rule that restricted nonstop flights to less than 2000 miles (LGA-PHX is 2149 miles). In 1984 it became a formal restriction and the limit was reduced to 1500 miles except for DEN and no restrictions on Saturday.
 
citationjet
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RE: B727-23 Vs B727-123

Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:21 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
I flew many times between LGA and PHX nonstop on AA during the period 1982-1986,
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
Didn't that conflict with the LGA perimeter rule?

AA didn't fly PHX to LGA non-stop in 1981 or 1984:

April 26, 1981 timetable only shows PHX - JFK non-stop service:
http://www.departedflights.com/AA042681p26.html

March 2, 1984 timetable only shows PHX - JFK non-stop service:
http://www.departedflights.com/AA030284p86.html

.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
411A
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RE: B727-23 Vs B727-123

Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:32 am

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 7):
AA didn't fly PHX to LGA non-stop in 1981 or 1984:

That wasn't the question, nor the discussion.

The discussion was/is...LGA-PHX....not the reverse.
Now, I expect some folks have a hard time understanding, so...I will state again:
I traveled (as a passenger) at least six times on an AA B727 (-100 series), between LGA and PHX, nonstop, in the period 1982 to 1986.
Old timetables don't list these flights?

Sorry, not my problem.
 
citationjet
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RE: B727-23 Vs B727-123

Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:31 pm

Quoting 411A (Reply 8):
The discussion was/is...LGA-PHX....not the reverse.

Actually the discussion was "between LGA and PHX". That implies flights in both directions, But OK, then we will look at the reverse routing like you suggest....

Quoting 411A (Reply 8):
Old timetables don't list these flights?

Correct, the old timetables do not list non-stop LGA to PHX flights. They don't show these flights in 1969, 1974, 1979, 1981, or in 1984. Does anyone else have any AA timetables that show LGA to PHX non-stop service?

AA didn't fly LGA to PHX in 1981 or 1984 according to their timetables.

April 26, 1981 timetable only shows JFK (not LGA) to PHX non-stop service:
http://www.departedflights.com/AA042681p26.html

March 2, 1984 timetable only shows JFK (not LGA) to PHX non-stop service:
http://www.departedflights.com/AA030284p74.html

In addition,
March 30, 1969 does not list LGA to PHX non-stop service:
http://www.departedflights.com/AA033069p36.html

December 1, 1974 does not list LGA to PHX non-stop service:
http://www.departedflights.com/AA120174p26.html

January 20, 1979 timetable does not list LGA to PHX non-stop service:
http://www.departedflights.com/AA012079p36.html
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
packcheer
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RE: B727-23 Vs B727-123

Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:14 pm

I don't care who flew where or when, but I am interested to know the distinction between the 727-123's and the 727-23's. Is there somewhere that shows the -23's had larger fuel tanks/larger capacity or is that just a guess?
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kanban
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RE: B727-23 Vs B727-123

Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:06 pm

I think you will find that initially Boeing just used the 2 digit code to distinguish airline customers -23 being American, then when the -200 series came along people started referring to the smaller plane as -100's.. There was an engine upgrade in the later 100's and airlines might have used the -100 to indicate which were JT-1's vs JT-4's.
 
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longhauler
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RE: B727-23 Vs B727-123

Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:54 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
A couple of fleet lists I checked show only 2 727s officially designated as 727-123: serial # 19838 (line/build # 551) and serial # 19839 (line/build # 542)
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
I can only find 3 AA 727-23s built after the 2 aircraft mentioned above. Is that the batch you're referring to? Those aircraft are (serial/line nbrs): 20044/592, 20045/596, 20046/605.


Yes, you found exactly the same ones I did. At least I now know I wasn't misreading it.

I can find nothing in print regarding a difference between the two. I guess I was hoping some old American B727 skipper might have some insight. I always found it a bit curious.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!

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