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LegRoomPlease
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747 Landings

Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:28 pm

I have recently flown on EVA Air 747Combi, AMS-BKK return and what struck me was the very soft landings, both in BKK and AMS.
I have previously flown on various types of aircraft but never seemed to enjoy such a soft landing. Has this to do with the type of aircraft or was it just me   ?
 
Vmcavmcg
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RE: 747 Landings

Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:31 pm

To be honest, after 10000+ hours on all models of the 747, it is truely one of the easiest aircraft to land no matter what gross weight, crosswinds or anything else. An absolute dream to fly.
If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane!
 
UAL747
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RE: 747 Landings

Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:37 pm

The 747 has such a large aerodynamic cushion (I think just because of its size, but correct me if there is something more technical), that it's difficult to not have a soft landing in the plane. Pilots I've talked to call the 747 a puppy dog, easy to fly, easy to land. The one they bitch about landing was the 727.

That said, I've had an extremely hard landing in SYD on a 747-400.....pilot just flew it into the ground. (Winds were bad that day).
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
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DocLightning
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RE: 747 Landings

Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:16 pm

Quoting LegRoomPlease (Thread starter):


I have recently flown on EVA Air 747Combi, AMS-BKK return and what struck me was the very soft landings, both in BKK and AMS.

I have flown on many 747's, from the 100 to the 400. I have found that I feel the landing just like I would on any other airliner. I recall one rather firm touchdown on a LH 744 at DTW where I actually let out a little yelp when it happened. And I recall a touchdown on a BA 744 at SFO where I wasn't quite sure that we'd actually touched until I saw the TRs deploy.

So, while I hear that the 747 is easy to fly and easy to land, the touchdowns are a factor of many different variables.
-Doc Lightning-

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KELPkid
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RE: 747 Landings

Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:45 am

Hmmm, I was onboard a carrier-style arrival once in what appeared to be an ILS to minimums at HKG, on SQ flight 002...   The other 744 landings on that same trip were smooth. It had to be at Cat II or III approach, as you could barely see beyond the runway lights after we landed (fog!).
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Francoflier
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RE: 747 Landings

Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:50 am

Don't forget that the extra number of wheels and shock absorbers also makes for a more cushioned touchdown. Especially when you consider that a 747 is always very 'light' when landing, compared to its MTOW.

As with any other aircraft, however, that unfortunately doesn't preclude 'tactical' style landings...
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747classic
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RE: 747 Landings

Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:03 am

The actual touch down depends on actual landing weight, flaps 30 or flaps 25 and the weather conditions.
A very light 747 has a tendency to float, also a landing with flaps 25 increases this tendency.
During 747 type qualification we were always told to aim for a firm touch down in adverse weather conditions or short runways to counteract the floating tendency (eating up to much runway before touch down.) A positive touchdown also gives a better spin up signal for the (auto )brake system to start the deceleration.
A good landing is that you can actual feel a reasonable main gear touchdown kick, followed by a soft nose gear touch down.
Strictly prohibited was (is) to keep the nose up for aerodynamic braking during roll-out. (tail strike, directional control problems in case of engine (reverse)failure).
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
UAL747
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RE: 747 Landings

Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:20 pm

Quoting 747classic (Reply 6):
Strictly prohibited was (is) to keep the nose up for aerodynamic braking during roll-out. (tail strike, directional control problems in case of engine (reverse)failure).



I've seen a TON of videos of 747 pilots using aerodynamic braking. Also, on the 747, don't the spoilers have a nasty habit of causing a pitch up moment when they are extended?

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
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Francoflier
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RE: 747 Landings

Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:37 pm

There's a difference between aerodynamic braking and slowly easing the nose down so as to avoid slamming the nosewheels.
I'm fairly certain all 747 pilots everywhere (and those of most other commercial jets) are repeatedly told that aerodynamic braking is a really bad idea. Other than running the risk of scraping the tail, damaging the nosegear or losing directional control, it effectively reduces the effect of main wheels braking and decreases speedbrakes effectiveness.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
Vmcavmcg
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RE: 747 Landings

Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:45 pm

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 7):
I've seen a TON of videos of 747 pilots using aerodynamic braking. Also, on the 747, don't the spoilers have a nasty habit of causing a pitch up moment when they are extended
Quoting francoflier (Reply 8):
I'm fairly certain all 747 pilots everywhere (and those of most other commercial jets) are repeatedly told that aerodynamic braking is a really bad idea.

On the 747 family, I can assure you aerodynamic breaking is definitely a bad idea. Boeing is very specific about avoiding aerodynamic breaking. What UAL747 is probably seeing is the process of completing the landing by flying the nose down to the runway. If you don't the nose will make contact in a very unfriendly way. Just as it will if one were to use aerodynamic breaking. If you keep the nose up, you run out of stabiliser authority and the nose will come down just like it will if you fail to fly it onto the runway properly after landing.
If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane!
 
lowrider
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RE: 747 Landings

Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:21 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 7):
ve seen a TON of videos of 747 pilots using aerodynamic braking. Also, on the 747, don't the spoilers have a nasty habit of causing a pitch up moment when they are extended?

You might be seeing a slow de-rotation. I see this emphasized from time to time. Usually following a damage incident. The spoilers don't cause a pitch up, unless there is a failure which causes the inboard ones not too extend, such as a hydraulic failure.
Proud OOTSK member
 
bohica
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RE: 747 Landings

Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:21 pm

Quoting LegRoomPlease (Thread starter):
I have previously flown on various types of aircraft but never seemed to enjoy such a soft landing. Has this to do with the type of aircraft or was it just me ?

Simple answer: If it was a good landing then the Captain flew the plane. If it was a bad landing, it was flown by the First Officer.  

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