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c5load
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Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:00 pm

I don't often hear about prop airplanes taking birds, so would the extent of damage be mainly confined to propeller blade damage rather than engine damage? There is a small opening just past the blades where a bird could go, but I would think the bird would simply be minced by the blades and sent flying outward?
"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
 
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JBo
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:03 pm

When I was working for Skyway, we had a Beech flight take a bird strike on approach, right straight into the intake.

So it can, and does, happen. Thankfully in our case, the bird didn't cause any damage and the local mechanics were able to clean and inspect the aircraft rather than have to ferry it back to MKE.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
2H4
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:05 pm

Prop Vs Jet: Bird Strike? (by Aerdingus Nov 15 2009 in Tech Ops)
Intentionally Left Blank
 
atct
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:22 am

We had one a few weeks ago in the King Air. Landing at KIAG and THWAK there goes a bird against the prop. Small sparrow or something of the sort. Made a pretty cool thwak sound, no damage....to the king air that is  

Clint
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SEPilot
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:09 pm

Two things work in favor of piston engines vs. jets or turboprops. Lower speed makes for less damage, and the air intake is orders of magnitude less and filtered to boot. Even if a bird were to smack into the air filter and block it, piston engined planes usually have an alternate input that bypasses the filter. A piston engine cannot swallow a bird the way a jet engine does, which is what does the most damage. Turboprops are more vulnerable because they can swallow a bird the same way a jet does, but again they inhale much less air than a jet, and the intake is much smaller (and shielded by the prop-at least the bird will get diced before it gets to the intake). They also fly slower (although at low altitudes where most bird collisions occur that is not necessarily true.) Speed is a factor in impact damage elsewhere on the airframe. Propellers are generally rugged enough to survive an encounter with any bird more or less intact.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
AmericanAirFan
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:03 am

We've had a few pilots hit birds at my flight school. It just makes a mess on contact with the wing/windshield. I have not heard of any being sliced up by the prop yet. During a night flight on landing one of our planes hit a coyote. No extreme damage was ever done though. Our planes our Skyhawks, and one of the bird strikes involved one of our Citabrias (fabric covered) it withstood very well.
"American 1881 Cleared For Takeoff One Seven Left"
 
ThirtyEcho
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:05 am

This thread brought back memories of those August afternoons out in the practice area with those big, ugly buzzards doing their airwork right along with the airplanes. Steep turns and chandelles seemed to be their strong points. They had very good situational awareness and I'm not sure you could ram one if you tried. I was, nonetheless, glad to have that big ol' prop out in front.
 
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SAAFNAV
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:09 am

In our bar, there is a photo of a C-130 that struck something very big, probably a Pelican.

Over the radome is the outline of the bird, it looks exactly like those cartoons where the bird goes through a fence.
I'll try to post a photo of it.

Regards,

Erich
ex L-382G Loadmaster, ex C-130B Navigator, Möchtegern Flugzeugführer
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:20 am

Turbojets & Low bypass Turbofans are more expensive with regards to Bird Ingestions/strikes as it normally means a shop visit if there is excess Blade damage.The Low bypass area means at most times the core is impacted.

On High Bypass,the 1st stage blades can be replaced on line,the Compact sectional construction of later engines make grounding time lesser.

Comparatively Piston Engined or Turboprops can encounter Propeller blade damage but not much chances of Bird striking the Interiors of the Powerplant.

regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
L1011
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:17 pm

In case you don't remember, an Eastern L-188 Electra was brought down by birds at Boston.

Bob Bradley
Colonial Heights, VA
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411A
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:10 pm

Departing JED a couple of years ago, several birds were injested into number one engine.
Flooomp.
Gone.
The First Officer says...'poor birds'.
The Flight Engineer says...' 'We should hold a small memorial for the sad critters.'

The Commander (me) says...'How are the vibes on number one?'
The F/E responds...'Normal, 0.9)

We press on to NKC, and land.
Anything abnormal with number one engine?
A few blood stains and....that's it.

RollsRoyce builds tough engines.
(Except on the A380, it would appear)
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:53 pm

Quoting 411A (Reply 10):
Departing JED a couple of years ago, several birds were injested into number one engine.

Just out of curiosity, what type of plane was it?
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
411A
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:27 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 11):
Just out of curiosity, what type of plane was it?

L1011-250,

RR RB.211-524B402 engines
 
kingairta
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:02 pm

I've cleaned many a birds out of the intakes on C-130s.
 
wingscrubber
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:29 pm

Can't post a link because I'm at work, but if you go on youtube and search for 'flying wild alaska' they have a great clip of a bird vs cessna stationair   Check it out...
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NAS738
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:40 pm

We had a birdstrike on one of our PA-34 Senecas at the flight school I went to. The poor thing managed to get chewed up before the remains got into the engine itself. We couldn't get everything out, so we flew around with the smell of burned chicken for months =P No damage to the propeller or the engine though.

I also had a bird hit my wing while I was flying my C172. Dunno what bird it was, but it was a big black one that made the whole plane yaw to the left after impact (i know you gonna say it wont take much! =P). Luckily it didn't hit the prop, cause I'm sure it would have done some serious damage!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:03 am

Quoting NAS738 (Reply 15):
We couldn't get everything out, so we flew around with the smell of burned chicken for months

Any Reason.Was it no access?.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:22 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):

Any Reason.Was it no access?.

I can easily understand it; an aircraft piston engine has a lot of places that debris can lodge where only major disassembly will give access; between the cylinders and baffles, primarily. But I think if it were my plane I would have done the necessary disassembly; the bird remains could easily impair cooling efficiency. I doubt you would have to remove cylinders; but the exhaust, baffles, and intake might have to come off. It would be probably a day's work for a mechanic and involve some new gaskets, but it could avoid a cylinder failure from overheating.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
NAS738
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:53 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Any Reason.Was it no access?

Well... They dissasembled pretty much the entire thing to make sure there was no damage to components, but it's almost impossible to remove every little bit of that poor bird without changing the entire engine.
 
YWG
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:40 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
Comparatively Piston Engined or Turboprops can encounter Propeller blade damage but not much chances of Bird striking the Interiors of the Powerplant.

I've seen a Canada goose somehow make it partially through the turbo prop blades of a twin and hit the wing root. The damage was pretty heavy to the leading edge.

In another case, a sea gull was shredded by a turbo prop but somehow, some large hard portion made it through the prop blades and into the first stage compressor blades. The result was numerous cracked a physically bent back blades.

In both cases, the aircraft were fly-able. That being said they were repaired at their respective destinations before returning to base for an overhaul of the section.
Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
 
wingscrubber
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:22 am

Here's the clip I posted about earlier...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lskmumXNHdg
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HAWK21M
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RE: Do Prop Planes Stand A Better Chance With Birds?

Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:34 pm

Quoting NAS738 (Reply 18):

Well... They dissasembled pretty much the entire thing to make sure there was no damage to components, but it's almost impossible to remove every little bit of that poor bird without changing the entire engine.

Was a water wash carried out?.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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