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contrails67
Topic Author
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:11 pm

ATC Language Issues In The World

Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:34 am

Hi:

I have to do a paper on ATC Language. However i am trying to figure out what to write about as the paper is open-ended.

I figured that I can write about the important of ATC communication in English here in the US and the rest of the world. As there have been instances of miscommunication, I can probably cite that. Also, i can probably look at ACARS as a form of written language and how pilots have to interpret the short messages. Anyone have any other ideas? I am looking at both oral and written parts, including such aspects as grammar, pronounciation, and intonation.


Thanks,
Contrails67
 
mmedford
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:54 pm

RE: ATC Language Issues In The World

Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:59 am

I will say one thing about this subject...

Line up and wait, sounds RETARDED!


-Signed; Position & Hold.
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: ATC Language Issues In The World

Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:00 am

Quoting mmedford (Reply 1):
Line up and wait, sounds RETARDED!

Maybe, but it is the ICAO wording for it and as you calculate a line up distance for your take off performance it makes only sense to use that.

Quoting contrails67 (Thread starter):
I am looking at both oral and written parts, including such aspects as grammar, pronounciation, and intonation.

Keep it simple as in many countries the controllers only speak very limited English, usually only the standard phrasiology and nothing else...
The future is CPDLC where you communicate via datalink with the controller. But even here I received many interesting ways to spell words. once we requested a higher level and we received a datalink clearance saying: "Negetiv" I guess he wanted to say: "negative"... So that shows how difficult communication can be with ATC...

wilco737
  
 
26point2
Posts: 1134
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:01 am

RE: ATC Language Issues In The World

Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:30 am

ICAO weather text seems antiquated and they are often times not in Engish. (BR for "mist"?...French?)

We still use cryptic codes for written weather text. I believe this derives from the old requirement for teletype messaging but not certain. I mean, really, WTF? (that's a pun, moderators)

Why still use letter codes and not spell it out in English?
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8573
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: ATC Language Issues In The World

Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:02 pm

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 3):
Why still use letter codes and not spell it out in English?

Efficient data transmission...a fully decoded METAR/TAF is about 10 times longer when fully spelled out, which chews up bandwidth and printer paper like nobody's business. This is no big deal in a good connection environment, but you really don't want to wait for a dozen sets of METARs and TAFs to get stuffed down a poor quality HF datalink. There are a multitude of good decoders out there, there's no real need to change the base format.

Tom.
 
contrails67
Topic Author
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:11 pm

RE: ATC Language Issues In The World

Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:07 am

I know ICAO requires ATC and pilots to achieve English language proficiency. Are there any countries which are exempt from this requirement?
 
lowrider
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:09 am

RE: ATC Language Issues In The World

Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:25 am

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 3):
ICAO weather text seems antiquated and they are often times not in Engish.

I prefer the weather abbreviations to the plain text. It seems like I can read them faster and it keeps the paper clutter to a minimum.
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: ATC Language Issues In The World

Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:27 am

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 2):
Keep it simple as in many countries the controllers only speak very limited English, usually only the standard phrasiology and nothing else...

If that. I can still recall my first flight into Mexico, and the controller asking me ("Noviembre Cerro Seis Equis") something incomprehensible. I finally figured out he was asking me for my position. I thought we were in radar coverage (tracking a victor airway at 12,500 feet), but I guess not. Everyone else on the frequency was in Spanish, and although my conversational Spanish is good, my aviation Spanish really sucks   (lots of techincal terms....). I also remember on my return flight plan having an old Mexican government employee type out my full flight plan on a manual typewriter and handing me the top slip of the triplicate form (no idea where the pink and yellow carbon copies went...)   I'm sure things have changed a bit since then. This was in the late 1990's.
 
speedbird128
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:30 am

RE: ATC Language Issues In The World

Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:42 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 2):
The future is CPDLC where you communicate via datalink with the controller. But even here I received many interesting ways to spell words. once we requested a higher level and we received a datalink clearance saying: "Negetiv" I guess he wanted to say: "negative"... So that shows how difficult communication can be with ATC...

Hi Wilco!

I am in FRA these days  

Do you remember where you got this message? I just wonder, because my foray in to CPDLC in South Africa (yes, not Germany :P), had the functionality to respond to messages without even having to touch my keyboard. All standard phraseology was accessable on a GUI with my mouse...
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: ATC Language Issues In The World

Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:51 pm

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 8):
Do you remember where you got this message?

China, over the L888 airway where CPDLC is the only way to communicate with ATC...

wilco737
  

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