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racsome
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Reverse Seating On WN

Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:29 pm

Anyone remember the backward seats that Southwest used to have on their 73's? Does anyone know why they were phased out? I always thought they were a cool feature... nice for families traveling together.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:13 pm

Quoting racsome (Thread starter):
Anyone remember the backward seats that Southwest used to have on their 73's? Does anyone know why they were phased out? I always thought they were a cool feature... nice for families traveling together.

Yup! I remember one time, I was flying from the LA area to the Boston area, connecting somewhere I'm sure. The airplane was damn near empty (this was in the early 2000s). I had a group of 6 seats to myself!

My guess is that those seats were on the old -200s (or whatever they used to have). Not sure if the -700s ever had them.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
SPREE34
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:42 pm

They all had the Club Seating, or what some at Southwest called, The Hot Tubs.

One reason I was told, was when the 700s came out, they were done away with to standardize seating. I hope WN folks answer for us, vs many guesses.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:57 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 1):
My guess is that those seats were on the old -200s (or whatever they used to have). Not sure if the -700s ever had them.

The -300's and -500's did for sure   There was also a partition wall in the interiror behind the over-wing club seating rows... I don't recall ever flying on a -700 that had club seating. I think they were all delivered new from Boieng sans club seating. One of the reason the rest of the fleet got the same treatment (i.e. removing partition walls and club seating) was that the TSA and air marshalls didn't like the partition walls post-9/11.
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WNCrew
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:33 pm

When the -700's came out, they had to be delivered with 16g rated seats. None of the backwards facing seats were rated for 16g so we couldn't install them into the -700's. We certainly could've left the lounges in the -300 and -500 but then the -700 would've been the only non-standard plane so we elected to (in conjunction with the new Spirit Livery) retrofit the entire fleet to standard seating.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:38 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):

The -300's and -500's did for sure

Well then!  

Thanks for the info - I don't really keep track of airline fleets. Only reason I remember it is that it was so unusual....Now I'm wondering if I flew on a -200 or a -300/-500.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
KELPkid
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:15 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 5):

Thanks for the info - I don't really keep track of airline fleets. Only reason I remember it is that it was so unusual....Now I'm wondering if I flew on a -200 or a -300/-500.

Easy enough: If the engines were small in diameter but long, went "tweet", and had bucket clamshell thrust reversers, you were on a -200 (and, as I recall, WN also had polished aluminum wings and nacelles with a big Pratt & Whitney sticker on the JT8D's, facing the passenger windows).   -300's and -500's had painted wings, and weedeater engines (well, CFM56's, which are short and fat) and cascade thrust reversers, along with goofy "don't stand here" stickers on the nacelles (painted the same color as the fuselage). I thoroughly enjoyed my first 737 flight in 1979: my parents grabbed a seat at the back of the wing, and I got to watch the thrust reversers in action   (and I was all of about 6 or 7 years old back then...)
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Jackbr
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:28 am

How did the 3 (I think WN have 3...) Flight Attendants do the safety demonstration so both the forward and rear facing passengers could see properly?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:24 am

So are the backward facing BA Biz seats rated for 16 g?

On CX in Biz the seats are diagonal and you have to wear an extra shoulder strap during take-off and landing.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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bikerthai
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:03 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 8):
So are the backward facing BA Biz seats rated for 16 g?

Yes.

The seat in questions here are the ones mounted to the partition. I don't think they even recline.
Certifying back facing partition seats for 16 G is not any more difficult (just look at the aft facing attendant seats still being used). It just cost MONEY for something that most flying passenger do not like (i'm talking about the non-reclining, aft facing, partition seat).

bikerthai
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WNCrew
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:27 pm

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 7):
How did the 3 (I think WN have 3...) Flight Attendants do the safety demonstration so both the forward and rear facing passengers could see properly?

We used to sort of "bounce" when we did the demo, we'd start in our normal positions and then move back into the cabin and repeat the motions over again for those behind the bulkhead to see.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
bohica
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:49 pm

WN wasn't the only carrier to have "club" seating. I remember PSA's 727s had club seating at the overwing exits and at the servicing doors in the aft. They were even partitioned to create mini-cabins. I can't remember if there was one in the front though.

I also remember Aloha had club seating at the overwing exit on their 737's at one time.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:24 pm

Going back further, it seemed a lot more common "back in the day". Mohawk had rearward facing seats on their BAC-111s and FH227s, Nordair had them on their FH227s and Loftleider on their CL44s to name a few.

Of course the king of them all was the Trident, with almost half of the aircraft rearward facing.

Air Canada has rearward/club seats on the Jetz A320/319s. Until very recently they were not allowed to be occupied during take-off and landing.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:56 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
Easy enough: If the engines were small in diameter but long, went "tweet", and had bucket clamshell thrust reversers, you were on a -200 (and, as I recall, WN also had polished aluminum wings and nacelles with a big Pratt & Whitney sticker on the JT8D's, facing the passenger windows). -300's and -500's had painted wings, and weedeater engines (well, CFM56's, which are short and fat) and cascade thrust reversers, along with goofy "don't stand here" stickers on the nacelles (painted the same color as the fuselage). I thoroughly enjoyed my first 737 flight in 1979: my parents grabbed a seat at the back of the wing, and I got to watch the thrust reversers in action (and I was all of about 6 or 7 years old back then...)

Hehe, I know how to tell the planes apart  

I just meant I don't keep track of the history of airlines' fleets. So while I thought WN had the -200, I wasn't sure. And I didn't know if they had the -300 or the -500 or both.

Ultimately, though, it was close to 10 years ago, and there's no way I'd remember which plane I was on  

But thanks for the info!
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
racsome
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:24 pm

Awesome info! Thanks everybody!!
 
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bikerthai
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:08 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 13):
And I didn't know if they had the -300 or the -500 or both.

  

They also fly the -700 and ordered the -800. You have to be a real aficionado to tell the -300 from the -700.

bikerthai
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akiss20
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:39 pm

Anyone have any pictures of this? I am curious what it looked like...
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alasizon
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:46 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 15):
You have to be a real aficionado to tell the -300 from the -700

Or look at the registrations  

Though from someone who sees plenty of them at BUR (and on approach over my house), I can't always tell.
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Viscount724
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:44 am

Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 16):
Anyone have any pictures of this? I am curious what it looked like...

In the first photo you can also see the 6 rear-facing seats at the bulkhead in front of the overwing emergency exit. he first row of seats just inside the passenger door also faced backwards, as shown in the last photo.


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Photo © James Richard Covington
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Photo © James Richard Covington


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Photo © Justin Cederholm
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Photo © James Richard Covington

 
vikkyvik
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:49 am

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 15):
You have to be a real aficionado to tell the -300 from the -700.

Eh, not really. The -700 (and -600, -800, and -900) have about an 17-foot-longer wingspan (not including winglets) than the -3/4/500.  
Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 16):
Anyone have any pictures of this? I am curious what it looked like...

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Richard Covington
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Richard Covington



EDIT: Ahhh, Viscount724 beat me to it.

[Edited 2011-04-22 17:50:18]
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longhauler
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:01 am

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 17):
Though from someone who sees plenty of them at BUR (and on approach over my house), I can't always tell.


I always thought you could tell by the colour of the canoes?
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
WNCrew
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:13 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 20):
I always thought you could tell by the colour of the canoes?

On most, yes, though on some of the special-scheme planes the "canoes" are not red. You can tell several ways...

Landing Lights, Flaps/Slats, Flap Jack-screw covers, any N3xx, N6xx tail number... etc etc
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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akiss20
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:21 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 19):

Thanks!!
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alasizon
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:07 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 20):
I always thought you could tell by the colour of the canoes?

That is true. In addition to the special schemes, I believe about ten to fifteen of the -300s also have red canoes for some odd reason.
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Viscount724
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:46 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 19):
Quoting bikerthai (Reply 15):
You have to be a real aficionado to tell the -300 from the -700.

Eh, not really. The -700 (and -600, -800, and -900) have about an 17-foot-longer wingspan (not including winglets) than the -3/4/500.

And the span of the horizontal stabilizers is almost 5 feet greater and the vertical stabilizer is at least 3 feet taller. I've always found the taller tail to be the easiest way to quickly tell a 737NG from the Classic models.
 
WNCrew
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:37 pm

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 23):
I believe about ten to fifteen of the -300s also have red canoes for some odd reason.

I've never seen a -300 with red canoes. I am fairly certain they do not exist.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
alasizon
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:42 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 25):
I've never seen a -300 with red canoes. I am fairly certain they do not exist.

Well it could be a good chance that I am just crazy and it might have been a -700 and I was way off my rocker.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
WNCrew
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:45 pm

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 26):
Quoting WNCrew (Reply 25):
I've never seen a -300 with red canoes. I am fairly certain they do not exist.

Well it could be a good chance that I am just crazy and it might have been a -700 and I was way off my rocker.

Haha, no problem! We can tell mostly when we're printing our paperwork etc by the tail#, but occasionally when there's a swap at the gate etc you become very adept at deciphering which is which. I just so happen to have to do it as a function of my job a little more than some people... it's a completely useless skill otherwise, LOL!
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:27 pm

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 23):
That is true. In addition to the special schemes, I believe about ten to fifteen of the -300s also have red canoes for some odd reason.

No red canoes on -3H4's (or any other -300's in WN's fleet). The red canoes are (were) a reminder to the gate crew to exercise caution due to the much greater wingspan of the -700s, as the -700 turned out to be a tight squeeze in many gates at outstations  
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bikerthai
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:44 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 21):
Quoting Alasizon (Reply 23):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 28):

I will reiterate what I've said about the aficionado. As these Gents have clearly shown that they are    .

As for the rest of us, it would just be a 50/50 guess . . .

If the red canoe is the give away, then that would be something to tell the Southwest planes apart. Does other 737 customer do the same thing? What does Alaska do?

Sorry for being off-topic here. Please delete this post at your discretion.

bikerthai
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
alasizon
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:01 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 29):
What does Alaska do?

As far as I know, AS does nothing to show the difference that is glaringly obvious. Since at one point, AS operated the MD80, the increase in wingspan for the 737NGs is only 10 ft as opposed to the 20+ feet going from 737Classic to NG. Most outstations don't have this problem for AS since the gates were usually large enough. The only restriction I can recall is at B3 in Portland and that was solved by adjusting the lead-in lines. (not that B3 is ever used anymore).
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
racsome
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:16 pm

Those were awesome seats for families. Just curious, did WN do away with them for any particular reason?
 
alasizon
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:21 pm

Quoting racsome (Reply 31):
Those were awesome seats for families. Just curious, did WN do away with them for any particular reason?
Quoting WNCrew (Reply 4):
When the -700's came out, they had to be delivered with 16g rated seats. None of the backwards facing seats were rated for 16g so we couldn't install them into the -700's. We certainly could've left the lounges in the -300 and -500 but then the -700 would've been the only non-standard plane so we elected to (in conjunction with the new Spirit Livery) retrofit the entire fleet to standard seating.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
racsome
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RE: Reverse Seating On WN

Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:38 am

Duh, thanks Alasizon. Sorry for the brain fart.

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